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The Gladiator at Adepticon has traditionally been a no-whining, bring your hardest list kind of event that has always used nearly any rule ever published. Last year, really for the first time, the event was kind of dominated by a Forgeworld/Imperial Armor model: the Reaver titan.

Some have expressed the wish for the gladiator to turn into more of a straight-up 'ard boyz style tournament and abandon its past support for the wackier fringe rules.

What do you think? Should the Gladiator change even though this would mean we probably all wouldn't get to see all these crazy cool models at Adepticon anymore? Or do you wish that the Gladiator would change to a stricter rules event and some sort of 'new' event would be created to incorporate these big models (although god knows when there would be time or space to run another tournament during that weekend).

Get all that FW/IA out of there. Make it a 2250pt. regular game and on Sunday host an Apoc 3000pt. tournment with all the bells and whistles. People will get their Apoc love on Sunday (you used to hold an invitational concurrent with the 40k championships on Sundays. Replace the invitational with an apoc tournament) and the Gladiator can be more manageable on Friday. The more Apoc that comes out from GW, the more difficult it will be to make sure certain combinations don't become to powerful.

Remember it was not the Reaver Titan that was game breaking, it was the flyer rules that gave the Reaver an unassaultable screen that was game breaking. The flyer rules were changed in the Apoc rules and we all missed that.

A lot of people think that the problem is not in the FW/IA rules, but in the Apocalypse rules that they used to shoehorn those units into a 2250 point game of 40k (Things like strength D weapons etc.)

And to all of those that said that is it fine I will wager were not there last year since the Reaver Titians dominated their games, and all of the after Adepticon feedback.

Last year was fine. People just need to adapt. I would however recommend a paint part of the contest to encourage the hobby side of it rather than just a beat everyone ass kinda thing. Now you need to beat everyones ass, with a nice painted army hehe.

I think the flyer rules need some evaluating, but besides that, they should be allowed. Possibly reavers as well. I preferred the 2000 point level of previous years to the 2250 that was run last year.

You're right. Last year was fine (sarcasm). 66% of the responders want a change so far, but I don't think a poll on Dakka should hold very much weight. The organizers should step up, make a decision and own up to the consequences when it goes F-up again.

Keep your Reavers. If I write scenario number 2 both sides will control a targeted EMP device which, when controlled, will automatically shut down all weapon/drive systems on a target unit/squadron. Whoops that shuts down the big toy unless you brought some help!!!

And don't think it couldn't happen, in the past people have been allowed to shove one opponent unit into reserve. Targeting the big boys with a scenario was always the norm, until last year.

If it is allowed then use it. If it's illegal then don't use it. Just because you don't take advantage of an available unit doesn't mean that no one else can use it.

SUCK IT UP.

Take what you want! I just am not a big fan of the flyer rules for blocking movement... (yet can't be assaulted)

I think that was one of the major issues.

If its a no holds barred event, its no holds barred.
Beardy, underhanded, deviant, what have you.
Stop being friends until the game is over, then tip a cold one back and laugh. its a game after all!

Except IA arent offical rules in any way, might as well use some rules from a fansite or the like.

I'm a fan of Forgeworld and super heavies but I think splitting games between regular and FW/IA Apocalypse games would be fair.

yakface wrote:The Gladiator at Adepticon...Some have expressed the wish for the gladiator to turn into more of a straight-up 'ard boyz style tournament and abandon its past support for the wackier fringe rules.

Thats tough. I see both cases. I think it should probably be an anything legal tourney!

Personally though, I actually voted codex units only, that's all I would want to play...

I reckon it should be the last option as there is no point in excluding them if there is no event where you can use your super heavies and gargantuam creatures as then there would be loads of people with IW/FW models that they cannot use.

I think they should be included, but avoid any rules designed for Apoc (ie. use the standard IA rules for Super-Heavies). Or find a way to deal with Strength D, as you cannot balance something that powerful with points alone.

And don't allow Reavers. They're stupidly underpriced.

No FW tourneys with "He who has the most money WINS!" rules SUCK!

Kallbrand wrote:Except IA arent offical rules in any way

Yes they are, but that's not an argument I want to get into again...

I think there were 2 issues that worked against the tournament this year:

1) Increase in points.
2) Ruling that a wipeout yielded all VPS.

If the points stayed at 2k, allowing all forgeworld, that would leave players with significantly less inthe form of scoring units with which to fulfill victory conditions. If you force someone to satisfy the victory conditions for the primary/secondary/tertiary levels of victory, you make it more difficult, though possible, to win with the large forgeworld beastie.

I would like to see next year's tournament go to 2000 points, all forgeworld allowed, but wipeouts not yielding the automatic full victory points.

I think of it this way: If your mission is to take a hill, and you kill everyone on the hill but cannot occupy it, did you fulfill your mission? No.


There were probably some other, smaller issues: Flyers blocking movement, scenarios not being crafted like previous gladiator missions like Mr. Diggler alluded to above etc. All in all, drop the points, make scoring units required to take objectives, and fix the flyers, it becomes a whole new ball of wax. The reaver player may kill the opposing army, but that doesn't mean he's able to fulfill all the mission objectives...

Personally, while I enjoy no holds barred events for the tactical element they add. I totally disagree with a system when it gets to the point that he who puts the most money into a hobby wins (ala Magic)...which is what it seemed to be this year if you forked out the cash for the Reaver & Flyer list you stood a good shot at winning...if you didn't have the money...so sorry save up for next time...

Certain aspects of Apocalypse Formations are intended to be seen only in battles of very large scale (where devoting extremely large portions of selections to anti-Titan duty is possible). The size of the Gladiator games makes it nearly impossible to create a balanced competitive force from standard codex selections that allows you to compete and be in the game against all lists, when the really gross stuff is used.

A couple years ago there was a scenario that allowed your opponent to keep 1 enemy unit off the table until Turn 4. That one scenario ensured that the Super Heavy's didn't rule the tournament and that you had to have a balanced force that didn't rely on 1 selection to win.

I'm all for keeping the no limit appeal. Just focus on balancing the scenarios that forces good generalship and careful list selection to win, and that will make for an awesome event.

Later,
WR

Personally I did not go last year but I went the time before last and if was the only time I got to use my blade and thunderbolt. It was awsome.

Didn't vote because I can't imagine wanting to play in the Gladiator, but... I don't see what the point of Gladiator without those models would be. Wouldn't that just make it into The Practice Round For the Championships?

When is there going to be a new poll!?!? lol

Not sure what all the bitterness is toward the Reavers, as I wasn't there last year. But I voted for 'leave it be', only because there was no option to 'leave it be, but have a good event coordinator'.

I'd say, make sure somebody with knowledge of Apoc games and it's rules...review the rules...and make a FAQ up to avoid issues like the flyer debacle. Set scenarios to avoid arsehattery type lists(perhaps limit number of mutli-structure point models or gargantuan creatures), and let people bring what they want.

I'm a huge fan of Apoc because it's a way for just about any army to be competitive with the 'newer' lists. Codex creep hasn't been an issue at all in the 10 or so Apoc games I've played this year, it's generally more about generalship and asset usage.

Again, why is there still no new poll?!

Meh, this just looks like a lot of whining form people who couldnt afford to buy a reaver ....

Without superheavies/titans its not gladiator.

I like the idea of allowing GW expansions into the tourney scene no one seems to have issues playing a City Fight or Apocolypse game why not a Imperial Armour one.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I think they should be included, but avoid any rules designed for Apoc (ie. use the standard IA rules for Super-Heavies). Or find a way to deal with Strength D, as you cannot balance something that powerful with points alone.

And don't allow Reavers. They're stupidly underpriced.

What he said.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kallbrand wrote:Except IA arent offical rules in any way

Yes they are, but that's not an argument I want to get into again...

QFT - A 40K expansion like all the others most of which are present or allowed in tournaments world wide.

kill dem stunties wrote:Without superheavies/titans its not gladiator.

I highly agree with this, isn't it the whole point of such a match to allow such monsterous units!

When entering a comp like these there is a certain amount of awareness to keep in mind, surely you'd realise when you read/see the flyer saying; IA and superheavies allowed,
you'd be aware that you may come across them either at some point or quite commonly and either say "No I don't feel like entering such a comp" or "Hell yeah I get a chance to
field some world breaking gear for once" or even "It'l be tricky but I think I can make a list to be at the very least competative".

Granted Titans are a @#%$ to fight and in most cases are near (pretty much) impossible to defeat in a common games sense (but bare in mind you don't need a Titan to kill a Titan, plenty of
cheaper tanks available that can do the job quite nicely) which is why as above I agree that there should be restrictions, however armies such as Death Corps, Tyrant Legion or Elysian are no
better off than the new Grey Knights for example and realy bring something special to the table.

Ive never been, you need an option for 'never been/what is adepticon gladiator?'

Never been, but have faced a reaver and warhound in an apoc battle. Seems to me that this tourneys point of difference is that it allows these units. remove them and you have 'just another tourney'. Keep them in, just prepare yourself to meet them.