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One of my favorite chapters, the Marines Malevolent, are getting a major boost in background in, of all places, the new Salamanders novel!

I'm glad to see that they're receiving some attention, though it is ironic indeed that it is in the book of one of their fiercest rivals (well, ever since Armageddon that is!)...

Yes. Marines Melevolent are an interesting chapter.
And heres another ironic twist. They think thier better than the the people they protect.

penut the butter wrote:They think thier better than the the people they protect.

Don't all Marines? What's the deal with Marines Malevolent anyway?

In the Third War for Armmegedon the Marines Malevolent bombed a refugee camp with about 4000 civillians just because their were a few hundred orks in the immediate area.

and this out of the norm for any human army how, I know the Salamders actuly like regular humans but really?

penut the butter wrote:Yes. Marines Melevolent are an interesting chapter.
And heres another ironic twist. They think thier better than the the people they protect.

That's not quite correct, now is it?

They feel that those not willing to fight themselves aren't worth saving, as their freedom is bought with the blood of others, or something like that.

Oh, and also that this is no innocence, only degrees of guilt.

Feel the Grimdark!

SPOILER ALERT (I dont know how to do that cool 'highlight to read the spoiler' effect I have seel folks do.)

I dont know if you have had a chance to read the new novel yet, but I have. And...the Marines Malevolent come out looking like bottom feeding chumps.

They get caught stealing equipment that was meant for another chapter. And they are prepared to kill the Salamanders to get it. That pretty much makes them the mullet sporting, eight rusty cars in the front yard rednecks of the 40k world. While they may be a great chapter with some awesome backstory, this novel certainly casts them in a weak and villainous light.

The Marines Malevolent don't sound like they're very good at doing their job.

If your name was capt vinyard and wore bright yellow you wouldn't be good at anything either.

Why all the MM hate?

You guys swallow that whole "Everybody Wants To Be an UltraMarine" stuff that GW puts out these days?

The Marines Malevolent are a very characterful chapter, and I think they have a rather ace color scheme too...

I don't want to be an ultrasmurf. And I agree with you. GW keeps insisting that the ultrasmurfs are the bestest no fail chapter in the history of mankind who ever existed ever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:

penut the butter wrote:Yes. Marines Melevolent are an interesting chapter.
And heres another ironic twist. They think thier better than the the people they protect.

That's not quite correct, now is it?

They feel that those not willing to fight themselves aren't worth saving, as their freedom is bought with the blood of others, or something like that.
Feel the Grimdark!

Thier civillians without guns! How can they fight!It's a crime against humanity!
And there was probably like 4000 civillians!And it was a few hundred orks!
But I guess it evens out cause they have a cool colour scheme.

penut the butter wrote:
Thier civillians without guns! How can they fight!It's a crime against humanity!
And there was probably like 4000 civillians!And it was a few hundred orks!
But I guess it evens out cause they have a cool colour scheme.

See, there you go...

Style over substance!

(And I think the line of thought is, fight with your hands if you have to...)

I think their colour scheme is hideous. Even the Rainbow Warriors look cooler.

I dont like the UM either...too boring, too overplayed.

But...I like the Space Marine stories when they are the heroes. I want to see people doing their best to defend humanity against things it doesnt even know want it dead.
I dont like seeing them cast as the villains of the picture. And, to be frank, the MM struck me as evil. Like, low rent looters evil. Not take-over-the-galaxy evil, or betray-our-entire-species evil, just the steal-the-rims-off-of-your-car-and-leave-it-up-on-blocks-while-you-sleep evil.

I like the Salamanders. Not just because they have one of the best Special Characters and Chapter special rules. And not just because green is easy to paint.

I also like them because they live amongst the people, they are a part of humanity. Their chapter sees itself first and foremost as protectors, guardians. The fact that they are warriors comes second to that.

The MM are some street thugs. Again, just my personal take. If you like them, more power to you.

I actually like MM, Desmondes over at Bn C had some ace MM but the site down now so I cant prove it.

Shaman wrote:I actually like MM, Desmondes over at Bn C had some ace MM but the site down now so I cant prove it.

Yes!

His MM force is a site to behold, as is Tagsta's (who is a member here now too!)

Cheese Elemental wrote:I think their colour scheme is hideous. Even the Rainbow Warriors look cooler.

Er, you've seen your Avatar recently, right?

Alpharius wrote:

Shaman wrote:I actually like MM, Desmondes over at Bn C had some ace MM but the site down now so I cant prove it.

Yes!

His MM force is a site to behold, as is Tagsta's (who is a member here now too!)

Cheese Elemental wrote:I think their colour scheme is hideous. Even the Rainbow Warriors look cooler.

Er, you've seen your Avatar recently, right?

It's a sad day when a guardian takes up rap.

As a side note, although I despised the behavior and portrayal of the Marines Malevolent, if you are a fan of them, i would highly recommend getting this book. It is the first of a trilogy, and foreshadows some further development of the MM. What's more, if you are a fan of them, you will LOVE their portrayal in the book.

Alpharius wrote:

Cheese Elemental wrote:I think their colour scheme is hideous. Even the Rainbow Warriors look cooler.

Er, you've seen your Avatar recently, right?

You should have seen the Ork and Tyranid ones
MM are pretty good though, could have been worse; they could fight like the Fire Lords.

I think that the MM are pretty cool (complete and utter dicks at times but still pretty cool). But I have to say that I like the salamanders better. They live amongst the people. Im probably gonna model my SM chapters interactions with the common people after them (of course my chapter will have gone through its 5th color scheme [not lying], its third fluff change, and will now be a counts as space wolves army [GW get me my new bits!!!!!]

Call me conservative and old fashioned but Marines should never have to stoop to stealing gear from other chapters

That makes me feel:

1. Chapter has no influence with mars/local production, which means senior leaders of the chapter are dicks

2. Chapter's attitude is 'us v the rest' which is fine when your job is inquisition, not when you supposed to be a line chapter of super soldiers

Indoctrination of these marines has clearly failed and can see other elems further isolating them - Dont like them and dont like the fluff.

Having gotten a LOT deeper into this book, I'm going to have to say that the Marines Malevolent come off looking just fine.

In fact, at this point, a LOT better than the stars of the book, the Sal'aman'der's themselves.

1) WAY, WAY too many uses of the apostrophe in many Salamander's names. I understand the Tu'Shan has one is his name, but does that mean that 75% of everyone in the Chapter does too? Their primarch was VULKAN, right?

2) They have some nasty, nasty infighting going on. Horrible stuff. In fact, the Salamanders have within their ranks brothers who will MURDER humans to keep their dark, nasty little secrets. Brother who wish ill upon others in their own Companies! Brothers who will go against the will of their Chapter Master!

3) Nasty Secrets? Er, yes. Insubordination at best, rank heresy and mutiny at worst! Not to mention self-mutilation and addiction to pain!

4) Outright mocking of another chapter's reliance on older marks of armor and weapons. Something which we've been told in the past is something that many Marines revere!

5) Quite possibly they also have too close a tie with Mars, seen in their willingness to play the lick spittle's for the Adeptus Mechanicus when the Marines Malevolent rightly claim rights of salvage on a derelict vessel in space...

By contrast, the Marines Malevolent seem downright practical in their devotion to doing what needs to be done to serve the Emperor's will in a violent, harsh galaxy...

Still, there's more to come, so we'll see where we end up...

On a side note, has anyone noticed how certain BL authors fall in love with certain words in certain novels?

For example, it was SURPLICE on DECENT OF ANGELS.

In SALAMANER, it is PAULDRON.

I'm tired of hearing about marines slapping their pauldrons. It is, apparently, an appropriate thing to do in almost every situation.

Alpharius wrote:Having gotten a LOT deeper into this book, I'm going to have to say that the Marines Malevolent come off looking just fine.

In fact, at this point, a LOT better than the stars of the book, the Sal'aman'der's themselves.

1) WAY, WAY too many uses of the apostrophe in many Salamander's names. I understand the Tu'Shan has one is his name, but does that mean that 75% of everyone in the Chapter does too? Their primarch was VULKAN, right?

2) They have some nasty, nasty infighting going on. Horrible stuff. In fact, the Salamanders have within their ranks brothers who will MURDER humans to keep they dark, nasty little secrets. Brother who wish ill upon others in their own Companies!

3) Nasty Secrets? Er, yes. Insubordination at best, rank heresy and mutiny at worst! Not to mention self-mutilation and addiction to pain!

4) Outright mocking of another chapters reliance on older marks of armor and weapons. Something which we've been told in the past is something that many Marines revere!

5) Quite possibly they also have too close a tie with Mars, seen in their willingness to play the lick spittle's for the Adeptus Mechanicus when the Marines Malevolent rightly claim rights of salvage on a derelict vessel in space...

Sorry but I must come in defense of the sons of Vulkan here.
1. While I can only speculate, not being able to find any list of common African names, I can only assume that was the feel the author was going for. (say what you want the Salamanders kinda ARE the token black chapter.)
2. Finish the book.
3. Finish the book.
4/5 Considering they're weapon/armor smiths themselves I can assume they have a certain degree of respect for the work of others. Their gripe was not the reuse of old armor, which they themselves take great pride in doing, but with the horrible hack-jobs the MM did. From Kyme's description I imagined an almost Frankenstein like version of power armor. And no, the MM had no right unless they didn't feel they had to need to honor the Emperor's word to the Mechanicum.

Having read a lot of the recent 'revelations' concerning the relationship betweem Earth and Mars and in fact the Emperor and The Machanicum, that's a pretty funny statement!

The Marines Malevolent make sure their equipment works, plus, the honor their fallen brothers by wearing pieces of their armor, so, in will look a bit patchwork in places, but it is certainly functional.

And apparently practical.

Sorry but so far (more than half way through), the Salamanders aren't looking too good...

Alpharius wrote:Having read a lot of the recent 'revelations' concerning the relationship betweem Earth and Mars and in fact the Emperor and The Machanicum, that's a pretty funny statement!

The Marines Malevolent make sure their equipment works, plus, the honor their fallen brothers by wearing pieces of their armor, so, in will look a bit patchwork in places, but it is certainly functional.

And apparently practical.

Sorry but so far (more than half way through), the Salamanders aren't looking too good...

Not exactly sure what 'revelations' you're talking about.

But it really takes a fan of the MM to look at this book and find a favorable portrayal in there.

Hmm Alpharius endorsemnt means I might pick this book up.. These days I mostly stick to abnett.

Shaman wrote:Hmm Alpharius endorsemnt means I might pick this book up.. These days I mostly stick to abnett.

Whoa!

Let me finish the book first, then I'll give you the final review.

At this point, the Sal'aman'der's are coming across as a particularly inept "First Founding" Chapter, to say the least...

I admit to a bit of bias of how good the Marines Malevolent are, but they are not coming across as the villains of the piece, though that might have been the author's intent.

Alpharius wrote:Whoa!

Let me finish the book first, then I'll give you the final review.

At this point, the Sal'aman'der's are coming across as a particularly inept "First Founding" Chapter, to say the least...

I admit to a bit of bias of how good the Marines Malevolent are, but they are not coming across as the villains of the piece, though that might have been the author's intent.

I'm actually debating if there is a more biased statement than this XD. The MM in both the Salamanders Novel and Codex: SM have been presented as being the virtuoso dicks of the Astartes. I don't think it's just the author of Tome of Fire that they be presented as less than honorable. And frankly if you can read this book to the finish and your first thought isn't: What dicks these guys are, you need to work on your critical reading skills. The MM are about as below the belt as a chapter can go. Stealing, cowardly sitting on the sidelines while their brother Astartes die, and extortion in face of it all? If I'd been Tu'Shan I'd report them to the Inquisition.

Also, the Salamanders in the novel are far from being depicted as inept. They have ONE bad cookie in the bunch, the rest are merely reeling from the loss of their leader, which doesn't really shock me. The loss of a liked commander often has very negative effects on those under their command. The Salamander's tale is less one of kicking butt and more one of recovering from loss. They hardly show contempt for the Marines Malevolent, more confusion for why they are so ill equipped, likely because their behavior hasn't made them too popular. Notice that in the Armaggaddon story, no one goes to defend Vinyard from Tu'Shan. Their attack on the civilians wasn't popular even among other Marine Chapters, the Guard, or the Inquisition.

Face facts. The Malevolent Marines are kind of jerks. That said, some people like it that way . Greg House is a total ass but he's pretty awesome. Think of the Marines Malevolent as sort of his grimdark Space Marine equivalent . Some people were just born to be jerks to everyone else, and the Marines Malevolent do it pretty damn will, with an ironic name to boot! It is nice for the Astartes to have a black sheep in the bunch. If they were all good too shoes like the Salamanders, well, it would just get boring XD.

PS: To any interested party. You should get the book. Not as good as Abnett but the writing isn't too bad, and the story keeps the pace going. It's better than some of the other SM novels you can get for sure. I'm also inclined to suspect we'll see the MM again in this series. Though it would be nice to get a MM Omnibus. They're jerks but at least their entertaining jerks XD.

LordofHats wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Whoa!

Let me finish the book first, then I'll give you the final review.

At this point, the Sal'aman'der's are coming across as a particularly inept "First Founding" Chapter, to say the least...

I admit to a bit of bias of how good the Marines Malevolent are, but they are not coming across as the villains of the piece, though that might have been the author's intent.

I'm actually debating if there is a more biased statement than this XD. The MM in both the Salamanders Novel and Codex: SM have been presented as being the virtuoso dicks of the Astartes. I don't think it's just the author of Tome of Fire that they be presented as less than honorable. And frankly if you can read this book to the finish and your first thought isn't: What dicks these guys are, you need to work on your critical reading skills. The MM are about as below the belt as a chapter can go. Stealing, cowardly sitting on the sidelines while their brother Astartes die, and extortion in face of it all? If I'd been Tu'Shan I'd report them to the Inquisition.

Wha...?!?

Are you empathizing with... Tu'Shan?

Really?

And it is more than one Salamander in the book that's got issues.

If you think the Salamanders are all that and a bag of chips, well... Critical Reading Skills might be needed in more than a few places...

But, like I said, I haven't finished the entire book yet.

Steven Erikson's series is taking up most of my free reading time...

Alpharius wrote:Wha...?!?

Are you empathizing with... Tu'Shan?

Really?

And it is more than one Salamander in the book that's got issues.

If you think the Salamanders are all that and a bag of chips, well... Critical Reading Skills might be needed in more than a few places...

But, like I said, I haven't finished the entire book yet.

Steven Erikson's series is taking up most of my free reading time...

Wow, you've actually only read that far? The other guy was right, you need to finish the book or at least get more than half way through it XD.

I'm actually surprised you'd comment about a book without having finished it XD. And what makes me seem like I'm empathizing with Tu'Shan? Little bit of a red herring there. I'm saying what I'd do were I in his shoes, and the MM sort of deserve it XD. But then like I said at the end of my comment, someone has to be the Black Sheep. If they were all UM/Salamander/insert other popular chapter cut outs the whole thing would get stale. The grim dark is so much grimmer when they spend just as much time fighting each other as they do the bad guys XD.

PS: If we weren't debating on opposing sides of a 40k discussion would you recommend Erikson? I saw a review once but wasn't sure if I wanted to get into something so long. I'm not surprised its consuming a lot of your time. Is it worth it?