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Picked up the book today and have to say we had a really good discussion about it.

Its a great looking book and a heck of a read. Just even flipping through it, it has more material and information that you can get into. I like the Blanch paintings. Its alot like the first time I picked up my Old RT books, and the same feeling of WOW is there.

Ther best thing about the book is that it ties alot of material and gives alot of information in one spot. The other is excellent detail and information for a basic book.

Rogue Trader is the second RPG based on the 40K universe and looks to be a great interwoven addition to the system.

The Inquisition stuff all looks like it will add in there, as well.

all in all 5 skulls out of 5.

Thanks for reminding me, Grot - I'll go grab my copy, too!

I wonder how this game is rather than the first one.

A overhaul or just additions to the game itself wandering around in your ship to boldly go where no other Trader has gone before ?

I don't know if I really want to get it. I've not been playing much with my group to Dark Heresy mainly due to the heavy rules and to the missions that are not so... different. I mean... playing an Inquisitor minion with his "friends" does give a certain number of possible missions in the 40k Universe, but not so many as I thought initially.

Ok you are the inquisition, but this does not mean that you are not part of the brutal laws that rule the Imperium and many actions would take charachters to a quick and painful death.

In Rogue Trader... do you have more things to do ? Or not ?

Ah and by the way, is there a Deathwatch RPG coming out or something regarding solely the Astartes ?

Ok you are the inquisition, but this does not mean that you are not part of the brutal laws that rule the Imperium and many actions would take charachters to a quick and painful death.

Ah and by the way, is there a Deathwatch RPG coming out or something regarding solely the Astartes ?

lol. What?

So you think Dark Heresy is not open ended or different enough but you want a Space Marine rpg? At least in DH there is a detective/ mystery element but in a Space Marine rpg what would you do besides kill stuff? Space Marines don't negoatiate, they don't talk to the enemy, they don't really have a lot of social interaction outside of training and fighting. You say DH is to repetiitve but what exactly do you expect from a SM rpg?

On topic, I think Rogue Trader looks great and am looking forward to picking up a copy.

I snagged a copy - there's only a handful of playable character types, much less than in Dark Heresy, but the trade-off is that there are tons of rules for ship combat and other such things. I intend to use it in tandem with my Dark Heresy rules - think of it as an extra-chunky supplement for Dark Heresy and you won't be disappointed.

Sol Invictus wrote:So you think Dark Heresy is not open ended or different enough but you want a Space Marine rpg? At least in DH there is a detective/ mystery element but in a Space Marine rpg what would you do besides kill stuff? Space Marines don't negoatiate, they don't talk to the enemy, they don't really have a lot of social interaction outside of training and fighting. You say DH is to repetiitve but what exactly do you expect from a SM rpg?

Well, that's true when things go 'according to plan.' Space Marines come in, kick hinder, leave. No fuss, no muss.

RPG adventures that go according to plan tend to suck! That's where SM characters could be interesting. A set-up for an adventure should hopefully be more like, "Your squad is part of a drop on Weirdvaguelyromanplanetnameia MCXVI as part of the 3rd company's mission to remove the chaos cultists that have usurped the proper rulership of hive city Grimdark. However, during the drop an unknown Chaos starship of titanic proportions shows up and obliterates the entire battle barge, and only a few drop pods are launched, and several of those are misdirected. Upon landing,t he squad finds it needs to cover a thousand kilometers of unfriendly terrain, take out the corrupt head of a hive city, and get rid of that massive starship, all in the Emperor's name. It's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses. Also, the chaos cult apppears to be summoning something and the rivers between point A and point B are running with blood/puss/magic/bodily fluids, and that can't be good."

Dark Heresy drew a lot of criticism because the characters were low-level minions. RT gives them a lot more control over their destiny. Deathwatch will have to turn it up to 11, as the heroes are all epic* characters by default.

To put it another way, instead of playing through the POV from the Space Marines stomping IG in that battle you played in 40k last week, you're playing the Terminators dealing with the cult from the Death Wing short story, or playing as the stars of one of the sagas Space Wolves seem to love so much.

* I'm using the older definition of epic as in 'grand, sweeping sagas' as opposed to 'really powerful' although both are true.

Sol Invictus wrote:

Ok you are the inquisition, but this does not mean that you are not part of the brutal laws that rule the Imperium and many actions would take charachters to a quick and painful death.

Ah and by the way, is there a Deathwatch RPG coming out or something regarding solely the Astartes ?

lol. What?

So you think Dark Heresy is not open ended or different enough but you want a Space Marine rpg? At least in DH there is a detective/ mystery element but in a Space Marine rpg what would you do besides kill stuff? Space Marines don't negoatiate, they don't talk to the enemy, they don't really have a lot of social interaction outside of training and fighting. You say DH is to repetiitve but what exactly do you expect from a SM rpg?

On topic, I think Rogue Trader looks great and am looking forward to picking up a copy.

Yes you're right eheh It was just to have a sort of hint because back in the days of the first edition of Dark Heresy (before they printed from FFG) I heard that there would have been a sort of Astartes role playing book in the series. I know that they are just combat oriented, but dammit... I think that everyone wanted at least once to play an SM (or chaos SM), slashing xenos and traitors all the way until the end of battle.

It would be completely useless for an RPG with a group that likes investigation and diplomacy, but for a "let's try something different" it might be interesting to play a couple of sessions.

Back on topic, if Rogue Trader grants you the possibility to have more type of quests rather than Dark Heresy or (better) improves the system with new possibilities , well I will get it also . I had a fun game once, but the players didn't know much of the 40k Universe and it was a bit difficult to make them understand some of the things... some others I simply had to ignore their actions.

Ok.. I've decided, when Rogue Trader will be available here in Italy, I'll bought it.

@ Molotov = excellent, if it's more such as an expensive expantion... mmh... don't tell me that my Battlefleet Gothic miniatures could get handy besides the game itself...

@ Balance = yes you are right, but the problem is that the game could get a bit too much .... copy and paste from one session to the other. I mean... why would a Space Marine use diplomacy ? They just execute orders. If we look though in the books we find a human inside the ceramite armor... so I think that the decision will be master oriented in the end. It depends what are the Space Marines in your head.

Nah, a Space Marine RPG would like monkey nuts.....either the Marines would be all powerful killing machines, or they would appear too weak (Ala some Black Library Books) and be therefore boring.

Surely the Inquisition allowed for the most RPG fun you can have in the WH40K setting?

Your squad is part of a drop on Weirdvaguelyromanplanetnameia MCXVI

I lol'd

Dark Heresy drew a lot of criticism because the characters were low-level minions. RT gives them a lot more control over their destiny. Deathwatch will have to turn it up to 11, as the heroes are all epic* characters by default.

I can appreciate the criticism of DH, but it seems to me that Deathwatch is just going to be kill your way here.... learn some story altering info and then kill your way there... That is to say it would be just another hack N slash that has a minimal amount of true role playing element.

On the other hand I am excited to see what comes because who doesn't want to play a legendary Space Marine?

@Commissar Molotov
So thus far in exploration of the book do you think it will be any good as a stand alone from DH or just as a supplement?

KOS wrote:I wonder how this game is rather than the first one.

A overhaul or just additions to the game itself wandering around in your ship to boldly go where no other Trader has gone before ?

I don't know if I really want to get it. I've not been playing much with my group to Dark Heresy mainly due to the heavy rules and to the missions that are not so... different. I mean... playing an Inquisitor minion with his "friends" does give a certain number of possible missions in the 40k Universe, but not so many as I thought initially.

Ok you are the inquisition, but this does not mean that you are not part of the brutal laws that rule the Imperium and many actions would take charachters to a quick and painful death.

In Rogue Trader... do you have more things to do ? Or not ?

Ah and by the way, is there a Deathwatch RPG coming out or something regarding solely the Astartes ?

This game is alot different, but the basic mechanics are the same.

As with 40K, being a Rogue Trader gives you license to do a little more then the average everyday Imperial citizen.

Notice I say a little more. There is still that little issue of aliens, heratics, and mutants that doesn't go very far, but you know what they say...

In space, no one knows any better. (LOL)

There is a section on building your ship, more information about those ships, and there is a different quadrent of the galaxy that the game supposedly takes place in.
Think of this book as the "Blue Book" if you were going to compair it to D and D.

It stands alone, or it is great additional material for your Inquisition minions.

There is always a need for passage to different systems, what better way to interact with the inquisition then to get drafted, book passage, or get involved in the rogue traders missions.
In point of fact, about half of the book is the same as the basic DH book as far as the character creation goes. The section on making your own ship looks to me like a good reason to go get me some Battle fleet gothic mini's and get a good representation of a rogue trader basic ship, then graduate up to a small fleet, thereby letting you play some BFG along the way with your newfound ships of the line and other tag along ships.

I really see a hell of alot of potential for this series of games, if you have the right temperment and people who know about 40K and thier universe.

It is like cleaning up the old game and streamlining it to a much stronger template of play. The Game mechanics run along the lines of the D 100, and it really reminds me of the Warhammer RPG as far as the basics of the game.

The great D 100 tables are back, such as - Mutations,

01-15 Strangely jointed limbs
16-30 Elongated form
etc.etc.etc.

Everyones favorite, Warp travel encouters

27-33 Ghost Ships
40-48 Visitations
etc.etc.etc.

And who can forget the great Critical Hits. ( These are the ships, by the way.)

1 Holed
2 internal damage
7 Surly techpriests
8 Decapitation
Space Hulk
Warp Drive Explosion ( BANG, your done, son!)

and the critical hits for combat ( you remember these, alright, LOL)

energy critical hit example-

3 the attack cooks the flesh on the chest and abdomen, inflicting 2 levels of Fatigue and leaving the target Stunned for 1 Round.
7 The intense power of the energy attack cooks the target's organs, burning his lungs and heart with intense heat. Thge target is Stunned for 2D 10 rounds and reduces his toughness by half (rounded down)

Head-

8- The target's head is destroyed in a convocation of firey death. He does not survive
9- Superheated by the attack, the targets brain explodes, tearing apart his skull and sending flaming chi=unks of meat flying at those nearby. The target is no more.

or the ever popular Impact critical hits

Body

9 The target jerks back from the force of the attack, throwing back his head and spewing out a jet of blood before crumpling to the ground dead.

Rending - Leg

8- In a single bloody hack the leg is lopped off the target, spurting vital fluids across the ground....

Etc etc etc. You get the point.


All in all the book gives players and the game alot more depth then just the old "You work for so and so, and you really don't know who they really are, but you'd better do what your told...." kinda slant, and gives the player alot more freedom to explore without having to ask Mother may I.


I see alot of potential if you want to decide to add a couple of Sisters of Battle, or some good old fasion horror and suspense stuff on a space hulk.

I can see using the space hulk tiles and playing on the table with the figures if you really want to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, the next game in the series is supposed to be the space marine one.

Because this one just came out, there should be a number of books for the Rogue Trader stuff in the near future, before you start hearing more about the Space Marines.

Along with that, the DH books mesh in well as well. Same material, same mechanics.

thank you very much for the information Grot 6!

Because of the inherent 'problems' with RPG'ing a Space Marine, I think that is WHY the only one that would 'work' is a Deathwatch Space Marine.

Why?

Still involves the Inquisition - so, tons of mystery, exploration, betrayals, etc.

And, this WILL often go pear shaped on some backwater planet/tomb world/Xenos enclave, etc.

Just like the actions in Rogue Trader are 'larger than life', so to will the actions be in "Deathwatch".

Or, at least I hope!

I'm assuming as well that at least part of the appeal of playing Deathwatch marines will also be the fact that you can al be from different chapters too. This should go some way to helping make each PC an actual character ratehr than faceless killing automaton #567.

reds8n wrote: I'm assuming as well that at least part of the appeal of playing Deathwatch marines will also be the fact that you can al be from different chapters too. This should go some way to helping make each PC an actual character ratehr than faceless killing automaton #567.

Another good point!

And really, as bad-a$$ as Marine can be, there's always something nastier out there...

Which is why you'll need a good Kill Team, Inquisitor and Librarian along for the ride!

I can't wait!

I've ordered mine from Maelstrom, saves me about €20,-- and is probably faster than my poor FLGS. All I need to do now is play that stupid waiting game.

I got this last week. It seems really awesome. I never played DH. I looked at a friend's books on a car ride, but that is it. In fact, I have only played an rpg a couple of times, years ago. Played d and d about 10 years ago, played some starwars rpg about 4 years ago.

I find the wh40k setting fascinating, I waste a lot of time looking at minis and reading lexicanum.

Almost all of the character classes are interesting and fun-looking. I'm trying to decide between a navigator and and an arch militant. I really like the Navigator thing, the weird noble mutant thing is intriguing.

Do Navigators go with the landing party to the combat stuff? The ship to ship combat and stuff sounds good, but I want to be in the thick of it. It seems like they have some powers that would be useful for combat, such as the sort of teleporting thing.

Still waiting for Amazon to ship my copy...

BYE

H.B.M.C. wrote:Still waiting for Amazon to ship my copy...

BYE

Maybe your FLGS would have served you better here.

Why would anyone looking for a story driven game want to play in the 40k universe? The fluff is all a little... utterly ridiculous to begin with? At this point, just make your own sci-fi universe that doesn't suck, allows for characters with even more dimensions (not that you can't have interesting reasons for an Inqusitor to do things, but 40k chars tend to be stuck in the Paladin box) and move on.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Why would anyone looking for a story driven game want to play in the 40k universe? The fluff is all a little... utterly ridiculous to begin with? At this point, just make your own sci-fi universe that doesn't suck, allows for characters with even more dimensions (not that you can't have interesting reasons for an Inqusitor to do things, but 40k chars tend to be stuck in the Paladin box) and move on.

I'd disagree, and I'm pretty hard on GW for a lot of things. I've heard the WHFRP setting is subtly different from the WHFB setting, and I see no reason the 40k versions shouldn't follow this trend.

One thing I always consider to be important to understanding the setting is a section from one of the Discworld novels where the Patrician (ruler of the massive and chaotic city of Ankh-Morpork) and the Archchancellor (Head of the local and largest wizard's university, nominal head of a bunch of wizards whom would try to back-stab him for a promotion, but are distracted by big dinners) discuss the 'tax situation.' In short, the Wizards have an ancient agreement that they won't pay taxes and the ability to turn someone into a frog to back this up. The Patrician has absolute authority, and agrees this is fair, but as he has lots of men with crossbows and such, the Archancellor agrees it's fine to make a purely voluntary donation to the city, witht he note that it should be used for unspecified projects the University approves of. And life in the city continues...

For 40k, the 'big picture' is that jurisdictions seem to be intentionally broad and vague, but things work because it has to. An Inquisitor can declare exterminatus with no real oversight, but if he actively targets another 'big player' like the Adeptus Mechanicus, Space Marines, or High Lords of Terra, he will find his support withdrawn. Machine Spirits become 'uncooperative,' the Space Marines just happen to be too busy, the Imperial support is 'pending review.' An Inquisitor may have ultimate power, but they need to be careful how they wield it. It's much the same for Space Marines and others. They can go stomp Orks and Eldar as much as they want, but if they break someone else's toys, then there may be hell to play.

That's the big picture, of course, but I can see a 40k RPG working fine. For most games, the above is just background. The player characters aren't going to be declaring exterminatus themselves after all. They're an Inquisitor's minions, working to achieve smaller, more manageable goals. Or a Rogue Trader and friends, working to make some cash and explore the galaxy.

For example, a neat Dark Heresy campaign idea I had is to set the game in a hive city that has been abandoned. Of a population of millions, only a few thousand are left that missed out on the last transports and aren't willing to risk thousands of kilometers of wasteland. They're the lost and the damned in a way, waiting for the death of their world whenever the enemy (Orks? Chaos? Who knows?) finally comes. And into his, maybe an Inquisitor has them running fetch quests, perhaps offering them a ticket out if they perform well. The Inquisitor may know of a dark secret hidden deep in the hive, a secret he wants recovered.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Why would anyone looking for a story driven game want to play in the 40k universe? The fluff is all a little... utterly ridiculous to begin with? At this point, just make your own sci-fi universe that doesn't suck, allows for characters with even more dimensions (not that you can't have interesting reasons for an Inqusitor to do things, but 40k chars tend to be stuck in the Paladin box) and move on.

I have to disagree with you on this one.

Based on the universe template, you can go any route you want to in this game. It is very game group friendly.
If you want to go the lone hero route, it is easy. If you want a lot of interrelated gaming, you can do that as well. If there are GM's out there that want to do a story based game, you could even get away with that, as well.

I see it as another one, as well. If you wanted to interplay the different GW games, from Rogue trader, as a baselaine, as playing with individuals, to a 40K based skirmish/ large scale war from Plantstrike, to even using some apocalypes stuff in there, You could just as easily make a figure for your guys in your game group, a couple of ships, in which you can use a few sheets of the grid square butcher block, and draw out a ship for on board actiosn, and a table top version for the space battles and encounters.

The material is solid. The game setting is open for personal games, the general game play is fun, without being over taxing to your time to fun ratio...

Over all the three settings for the materials are all interrelated, and you can start with generic plans and flesh them out to how ever your game group plays.

All along the way, you have the background of the D rolls to give you even more, or less of a option.

I don't think you realize the depth in which the material in the books has. On one hand, you can say that the universe is restrictive, on the opposite side, I see it as open season on your imagination. As for the fluf being ridiculous, I might be a little bit more overt to it, but I like it.

I don't see it as any more or less then any other universe I play in.
You could taylor the games easily to fit your group. How is that ridiculous? There is choice, full setting, and plenty of material and ideads. How is that ridiculous?
You can easily compare the 40K RPG to the Fantasy one. It has as much, if not more depth of material for the game.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Why would anyone looking for a story driven game want to play in the 40k universe?

Because 40K is a rich and dynamic backdrop well suited to limitless explorations of themes, conflicts and events.

And no, that's not me attempting to be ironic. That's not me being my usual snarky sarcastic self. That's the truth.

Finally got my copy from amazon two days ago... I've been a bit slow in reading it, as I wanted to finish Titanicus first...

I think that 'restricted to Paladins' comment is rubbish thus far though.

I've been envisioning an Inquisitor who is fairly puritanical and Paladin like, but his Interrogator is sliding in the other direction and maybe even attempting to get the PCs killed while using them to get her some powerful heretical items.

Some of the PCs could even start siding with the Interrogator. Creating a rift between party members, that they have to try to act on - without showing their hand, or garnering unwanted attention.

Cheese Elemental wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Still waiting for Amazon to ship my copy...

BYE

Maybe your FLGS would have served you better here.

But he is in the USA, Amazon is always better than a FLGS here!












Yes, I KNOW he is not in the USA, I was being silly. For Rogue Trader, Amazon was actually faster than anyone else would have been for me (except maybe The Warstore but it was like $15 more after shipping there and I would have saved maybe a day or two).

There's actually some Astartes fan-made rules for Dark Heresy that are, IMO, pretty well-made.
Can't find the link anymore but I have the pdf file if someone's interrested.

I also had the chance to look at the Rogue Trader book today... LOTS of stuff in there, indeed!
Tons of rules for spaceships and warp travel that could be used for a Dark Heresy game, too.. I was interrested but.. pretty expensive. I'll wait.

My FLGS got it a few days ago. $95 for a book! Time to start saving.

That's what Amazon is for Cheese. You can get it for half that.

Here is a fun SM path. It works well the way it's written, but I could see a GM making a few tweeks. The only thing about running a SM game is that you are going to have to do SM things. Like fight every Ork on the planet... by yourself. Blaze of glory.

http://www.darkreign40k.com/downloads/career-paths/index.php

Isn't the 95 dollar book the special addition?

We're Australian. That's the price in Australian, which is absurd, given how close our dollar is to yours and I can pay AUD$50 just by buying it in the States.