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He Guys,

I got myself the Open Fire Starter box and played the game with the 5 tanks and read the rulebook a few times.
I really like the game so I want to continue with it, but there are so many rule/army books.....
Which one/two books do I need if I want to continue with the German and Americans who's tanks are in the Starterbox?

As a related question, is there a legal source for FoW PDFs? I've thought about picking up the main rules just out of curiosity...

Depends on what time frame you're planning to start playing at. For Latewar, Fortress Europe is the default book for generic lists. For Midwar, North Africa fits the bill.

Now, if you want to focus your list on a particular part of the war, the smaller intel briefings will have the lists for those. It's perfectly fine to play differing briefings against each other (i.e. Hell's Highway vs Cobra) with the only real divider being midwar and latewar lists don't play against each other.

Battlefront offers small intel briefings and expansions as downloadable PDFs, but you will need the rulebook (either large or small) to play. The Open Fire starter works well as you can trade the tanks you're not using for others, or the small rulebook itself is pretty easy to find on eBay.

Spmusubi hit the nail on the head, pick a time frame (Early War, Mid War, Late War) and a side (Axis or Allies), and a 'Flavour' (Armoured, Armoured Infantry, Motorised Infantry, Infantry). Stick with the main books (Fortress Europe or North Africa) and have fun!


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FYI Battlefront have a good forum on their website as well www.battlefront.co.nz (or www.flamesofwar.com)

Late war, free, official army lists are here:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=108&kb_cat_id=100

and

Midwar, free, official army lists are here:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=108&kb_cat_id=17

If I was starting an army based on the models in the open fire box and the free PDF listings, I'd probably go with the 1st Polish Armoured:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=644

So is the Open Fire rulebook the 'full' core rules, just in a tinier form?

Yup, more or less. Like the 40k starter, some of the optional rules and the hobby sections are missing. The only thing that might come into play would be the Fortification rules and those only if you're using Pioneers in your list.

spmusubi wrote:Yup, more or less. Like the 40k starter, some of the optional rules and the hobby sections are missing. The only thing that might come into play would be the Fortification rules and those only if you're using Pioneers in your list.

Huh. That's annoying. I don't mind losing the 'how to paint' bits (I already know that, albeit not particularly well) but I tend to think field engineers are kind of nifty, even if the idea of them doing too much in the context of a wargame (focusing on a single main focus of a battle as 40k, FoW, and many other games do) seems weird to me.

What do FoW Pioneers do, out of curiosity? I think if I was designing a game I'd want them as an 'unlock' for minefields and such, with maybe an option to rig a terrain piece (representing planted explosives) or similar. One thing I picked up from a FoW review is that while it's not particularly realistic, units feel like they do what they're supposed to do. Artillery sits back and is support, infantry takes ground, armor scares everyone, etc.

Well, funny enough, Pioneers do what you just said, they unlock minefield and barbed wire for defensive missions. Defensive missions mean that your company is under attack, but has enough time to set up prepared positions before the enemy appears. It's fairly common (4 out of the 6 standard missions), but you may not always be the defending company. For example, if you take Pioneers in your list, but are on the offensive, your men obviously aren't going to be rolling out wire in front of your own tank advance!

Wire and land mines are there pretty much to deny your opponent favorable approaches at your objectives. They don't tend to kill too much (unless your opponent is playing Zapp Branigan style), but it does slow them down, giving you more time to beat on them.

The other major use of Pioneers is to assist other platoons in entrenching into defensive positions. Since the Pioneers can be equipped with Supply Trucks carrying dynamite, pickaxes and other goodies, nearby platoons get to reroll the dice for digging foxholes, which can be helpful depending on the skill level of your troops.

Pioneers also tend to have more specialized weapon systems then the normal infantrymen such as flamethrowers and satchel charges, which is helpful when heavy tanks are rampaging through your lines and you need a last-ditch effort to stop them.

In the actual Fortification missions (not in the small rulebook), Pioneers will do a lot more work, such as clearing the beforementioned wire and minefields, blowing up bunkers, filling in anti-tank ditches and so on.

Thanks for the info. That sounds neat... I never liked how the closest equivalent in WH40k (Enginseers and Tech Marines) seem more like overblown unreliable mechanics with some wacky hand-to-hand stuff than actual, you know field engineers!

Hmm. I like the idea of small rulebooks, but the reality annoys me. i may have to just order the big book, as it's not like I am likely to actually play the game any time soon, anyway. I just want to read up on it.

I ended up ordering the full rulebook. Been bsuy lately, but I've read some of it.

So far, it's interesting. I can definitely see the 'GW' influence in many places.

I like that all the images seem to have identifiers as to source.it's a small touch, but a nice one.

The general layout definitely reminds me of the Warhammer books. This isn't the greatest thing, as the rules seem a bit 'spread out' at times, and there seems to be a lot of exceptions. (I.E. here's moving... Then vehicle moving... then vehicle (tracked) moving... etc.)

On the other hand, the layout has an almost 'textbook' feel with many sections starting with an overview, then the details (with small local summaries) then a end-of-section big summary.

it's a very slow read.

As others have said, the book is kind of useless (even just for someone interested) without a briefing book. I might order one, but no idea which one... If I were to build a list, I'd probably want to go nuts with tanks, engineers and recovery vehicles because I'm weird like that. No idea what book would best handle that, or even which nation I'd do it for.

I too, have just started playing FoW. Bought the starter set, a panzergrenadier platoon, panzer IV platoon, and a Tiger tank...I want to do a armor heavy list with lots of tanks supported by halftracked infantry, and one or two tiger tanks.

is this a good basic start, or am i way off base?

Have you looked at this thread yet?
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/247904.page

Balance: For just trying out the game, take a look at the German Panzerpionerkompanie over at http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=108&kb_cat_id=100. It's a variant list of the normal German infantry utilizing engineers instead of regular riflemen. It comes in mechanized (Gepanzerte) and foot versions along with the usual German support options. Proxy up the list and give it a whirl!

CapNCaveman!: What you've got is just about perfect for a German PanzerKompanie. The PIVs and StuGs (from the starter set) will make up your combat platoons with mounted Panzergrenadiers and Tigers in support. Later, you'll have to decide if you want to focus on more armour, more infantry, etc.

Thanks, spmusubi. One thing I've noticed is that there doesn't seem to be a very good list on Battlefront's website of what each book contains.

The generic books (Fortress Europe and North Africa) just have standard lists on what armies would have had during the time period. Generally speaking, each nationality (German, US, British, Russian) will have a Tank Company, Mechanized Company (mobile infantry) and an Infantry Company. There will be also specialized formations such as Paratroopers (which are a subset of Infantry Companies) or Recon Companies (which are Mechanized Companies). Nation-specific forces such as Cossacks (Russian cavalry!!!) also appear there.

Now, if you're interested in a particular battle or unit, that's when you pick up the smaller battle briefings. Since everybody loves the 506th PIR from the 101st Airborne out of Band of Brothers, you could play them out of D-1 (the airborne drops at Normandy) or Hell's Highway (Operation Market Garden) later on in the war. Both of those books would allow you to utilize formations the actual unit used during each battle, for example having British armour in support during Market Garden or being restricted to only what they could carry on actual parachute missions.

Is there a list anywhere of what each book contains and which books are written with the 2nd edition rulebook in mind?

Balance wrote:Is there a list anywhere of what each book contains and which books are written with the 2nd edition rulebook in mind?

The book summaries and designer's notes on Battlefront's website should have a list of the army lists contained within each book. All the books currently in print were written with 2nd edition in mind: Afrika, Ostfront (which are being updated with North Africa and Eastern Front, respectively, but the older books are still legal), Festung Europa (which is updated by Fortress Europe, bot both books are still legal), and all the Normandy, Bagration, and Market Garden books. If you happen to find one of the old 1st edition army books (like Desert Fox, Desert Rats, Hitler's Fire Brigade, Stalingrad, etc.), Battlefront actually released free PDF updates on how to update the 1st edition books to 2nd edition, so basically any book you find you'll be able to use in some form or another. If you want to do Late War, Fortess Europe is a good place to start, and if you want to do Midwar, North Africa or Eastern Front would be good.

Hi guys, my local shop has had the Open Fire starter set sitting on the shelf for months now and i finally decided to look into it and subsequently brought it =)

after flicking through the rule book, looking through forums and articles ive decided i want to go with a paratroopers army (US), decision was also heavly waited with my love for the airborne troops in Company of Heros ...

anyways, i was wondering what my next step should be in terms of purchasing units and books. I found a small contingent of paratroopers cheap so i now have 3 shermans, a rifle platoon, a mg platoon, a squad of snipers and Lt. Turner Turnbull.

Here's my other problem. To go with Europe or North Africa. Any major varience in lists?

Cheers guys. when i start to paint my stuff up ill start a blog for you to look up =)

American forces really don't differ too much between the two time periods. You can quite easily make an army for MidWar and then switch it over to LateWar with little effort.

For paratroopers, North Africa (midwar) is the book or D-1 and Hell's Highway (recommend HH) for latewar. Festung Europa (the older Latewar book) had American paratroopers in it, but Fortress Europe (the current latewar) does not.

The main change in Latewar will be the additional support options you can field. You'll also need to think about if you want to field a "pure" parachute drop company or a mixed force after the paratroopers have landed. There is an airborne assault mission that has your men dropping straight onto the battlefield from their planes along with gliders landing with their heavier equipment.

Thats spmusubi. Thats cleared up a few things =)

Just another question. Is it possible for me to make both a "pure" parachute company and a mixed one. I mean in such a way that i could use models for both armies.

I personally think its possible just from the standpoint that youve got an army that 'drops' in (the pure) and later on in the war meets up with other elements such as armour etc (the mixed).

Obviously this would be more a latewar army so id be looking at the Hell's Highway book yeh?

Jake Bake A Cake wrote:Thats spmusubi. Thats cleared up a few things =)

Just another question. Is it possible for me to make both a "pure" parachute company and a mixed one. I mean in such a way that i could use models for both armies.

I personally think its possible just from the standpoint that youve got an army that 'drops' in (the pure) and later on in the war meets up with other elements such as armour etc (the mixed).

Obviously this would be more a latewar army so id be looking at the Hell's Highway book yeh?

It is possible, for exactly the reason you mentioned. However, you wouldn't likely use this list in the same game, unless you were doing a weird home-brew scenario. The whole point of using a non-drop Parachute Company is so you can take advantage of more diverse support choices. You can do this with any of the Paratrooper lists though, it doesn't necessarily have to be from Hell's Highway. D-1 is primarily for Normandy Paratrooper lists, while Hell's Highway is for Operation Market Garden. The lists in Festung Europe and Fortress Europe and Afrika/North Africa are more general purpose.

of course not in the same game, more so i didnt have to decide between having one or the other.

So just to start off with what book would people recommend to use paratroopers with. If possible id like to stick with the europe theatre of war so D-1 and HH sounds like the two choices. Im familar with both events historically but not everything is as it might seem when transferrred into a war game. Where should i be looking?

Jake Bake A Cake wrote:of course not in the same game, more so i didnt have to decide between having one or the other.

So just to start off with what book would people recommend to use paratroopers with. If possible id like to stick with the europe theatre of war so D-1 and HH sounds like the two choices. Im familar with both events historically but not everything is as it might seem when transferrred into a war game. Where should i be looking?

Nah, you don't have to decide on one or the other really. The mixed company is based off of the parachute-only company, so as long as you have a good core of paratroopers, you'll be fine.

D-1 or HH is probably where you want to look. It's really just personal preference. My recommendation would be to read a bit of the history and just see if there's a unit or battle that catches your eye and go with that, it's really up to you at this point. You should be able to make effective, historical lists out of either book.

okay thats Hordini, thats really cleared things up alot.

theres a shop close by that has the books instore so i might have a little flick through both of em then and which ever one looks the best ill buy.

One last thing. you wouldnt happen to know how long an order form the flames of war online store takes? just curious thats all

You're very welcome.

Regarding how long the Flames of War online store takes, I couldn't really say because I usually buy my stuff at the FLGS or the Warstore. I can't imagine it takes that long though.