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Had another game to test out the slightly modified Guard list, this time pitching against a very tough Imperial Fists list.



Imperial Guard

HQ

1 x CCS w/ Chimera – 3 x plasma guns & 1 x medi kit

1 x CCS w/ Chimera – 3 x plasma guns & 1 x medi kit

Troops

10 x Veterans – 3 x meltaguns

10 x Veterans – 3 x meltaguns

10 x Veterans w/ Chimera – 3 x meltaguns

10 x Veterans w/ Chimera – 3 x flamers

10 x Veterans w/ Chimera – 3 x flamers

Fast Attack

1 x Vendetta

1 x Vendetta

2 x Hellhounds

Heavy Support

1 x Leman Russ Battle Tank

1 x Leman Russ Demolisher

1 x Leman Russ Demolisher



Imperial Fists

HQ

1 x Captain – storm shield, relic blade & artificer armour

Elite

5 x Assault Terminators – 3 x thunder hammers & 2x lighting claws

5 x Assault Terminators – 5 x thunder hammers

8 x Sternguard w/ Rhino – 2 x combi meltas

Troops

10 x Tactical Marines w/ Razorback – 1 x meltagun & 1 x missile launcher – sgt w/ power fist

10 x Tactical Marines w/ Razorback – 1 x meltagun & 1 x missile launcher – sgt w/ power fist

10 x Tactical Marines w/ Razorback – 1 x meltagun & 1 x missile launcher

Heavy Support

1 x Land Raider

1 x Land Raider



Game: Pitched battle & kill points

Turn 1

Scout move for the two valkyries, guard get first turn.

All guard tanks move forward, one demolisher gets stuck in terrain. Both flamer vet chimeras supporting both ccs pop smoke. Both vendettas move 6”, both melta vets bail out.

Battle tank stuns a razorback supporting the sternguard rhino. Vendetta scores crew stunned on another razorback supporting all hammer terminator’s land raider, the land raider suffers weapon destroyed and crew stunned from a unit of melta vets which bailed out one of the vendettas. One demolisher fires at the missile launcher combat squad on lower ruin floor, lands on target but no kills. Other melta vets wreck captains raider, the other vendetta does nothing to supporting razorback.

Sternguard rhino moves 12” pops smoke. Combat squad with power fist supporting hammer terminators bail out of the stunned razorback. Hammer terminators bail out too. Captain and terminators move a little bit over terrain towards melta vets, which popped their tank, supporting razorback squad bail out too.

Hammer land raider immobilises vendetta, supporting meltagun from combat squad scores immobilised result on it as well so turns to wrecked result. Razorback fires heavy bolter and kills 3 vets, meltagun from combat squad misses the other vendetta.

In assault captain and terminators slaughter melta vets which popped their raider. Krak grenades from combat squad pop the last vendetta. Hammer terminators batter melta vets, 5 survive and fall back.

Fists are winning with 3 to 1



Turn 2

All guard vehicles move 6” ready to unleash the pain. Battered melta vets on foot get up close to a crew stunned razorback.

One CCS issues bring it order to itself, fires at sternguard rhino just shakes it. Supporting chimera fires multi laser at same target scores weapon destroyed. Melta vets on foot pop the crew stunned razorback. Leman russ fires at combat squad which melted a vendetta, scatters and kills own guardsmen lol. Captains terminators lose 3 in total after demolisher fire, supporting combat squad only loses one man after getting shot by everything else.

Sternguard bail out of rhino, supporting razorback flanks round. Thunder hammer terminators move towards the leman russ. Captain and terminators move to the mobile demolisher. Combat squad which lost one member moves by hellhounds, other combat squad on foot holds position.

Broken land raider pops a flamer vet chimera, sternguard use hellfire rounds on survivors and gun them all down. Combat squad which held position rapid fires at melta vets with fire support from a razorback, one left standing after the dust settles. Meltagun from other combat squad scores weapon destroyed on hellhound squadron. Flamer chimera supporting other CCS suffers crew shaken, melta veteran chimera suffers crew shaken also.

In assault hammer terminators wreck the leman russ, captain and other terminators immobilise the other demolisher.

Fists are winning with 6 points to 2.



Turn 3

All guard tanks move 6”, melta chimera is immobilised in terrain.

In the shooting turn sternguard have 3 men left after plasma attack from CCS. Demolisher in terrain fires at hammer terminators, scatters and misses. Melta vets in chimera score no kills on captain and terminators. Combat squad on lower ruin floor gets hit by flamer vets which received first rank fire second rank fire, 2 kills though the combat squad passes morale test. Combat squad by hellhounds get set ablaze by mass flamer templates, sgt survives alone and passes morale. Other CCS fires on combat squad on upper ruin but score no kills after cover saves.

Sternguard get back in rhino, rhino moves 6” towards CCS chimera, supporting razorback moves 6” and eyes up the single melta vet falling back. Hammer terminators move to demolisher stuck in terrain. Land raider pivots and spots rear armour of both hounds. Solo sgt heads towards melta vets chimera. Razorback moves through terrain to both rocket combat squads and is immobilised.

Sternguard shoot combi meltas from rhino hatch and pop CCS chimera. Razorback still with squad inside kills solo melta veteran, which was falling back. Land raider scores weapon destroyed results on both hellhounds, one hound now has no weapons. Lower ruin squad fire at flamer vets in same ruin, score one wound after cover saves. Other combat squad in same ruin fires at CCS chimera but scores crew shaken only.

In assault hammer terminators wreck demolisher, power fist sgt punches chimera to ruins.

Fists are winning with 11 kill points to 2!



Turn 4

CCS on foot holds position, other CCS chimera moves through terrain ok. Melta vets now on foot move into terrain. Flamer vets chimera moves to rear of immobilised razorback. Two hounds sight up the power fist sgt.

CCSon foot issues bring it down to own squad, other CCSissues first rank fire to melta vets and flamer vets.

In shooting both melta vets and flamer vets kill ground floor ruin combat squad. CCS in chimera guns down captains terminators and scores a wound on the captain.

Guard now have 4 kill points

Shooting phase sternguard score no kills on CCSon foot. Krak rocket from combat squad in ruin pops chimera which was shooting at the rear of the immobilised razorback. Other razorback with a squad still inside kills 3 flamer vets in terrain which had killed the combat squad in the previous turn. Land raider pops a hellhound. Krak rocket from other combat squad in ruin immobilises CCS chimera.

Nothing happens in assault.



Turn 5

Hellhound gets stuck in terrain, melta vets move through terrain.

Both CCS squads issue first rank fire to several squads, all pass ok. CCs on foot kills one sternguard, CCS in chimera kills the invincible power fist sgt, finally. Melta and flamer vets kill 3 marines from combat squad on upper level of the ruin, they pass morale ok though.

Fists move around a bit, limited movement though.

Sternguard do no damage on CCS on foot. Combat squad in ruin fires frag missile at CCS on foot also, no kills. Combat squad in upper ruin fires frag at melta vets, kills two. Two razorbacks and land raider fires at flamer vets, kills them all. Land raider fires lascannon at hound, no damage.

In assault hammer terminators wreck last demolisher, captain breaks the multi laser on the CCS chimera.

Fists winning with 14 kill points to 5.



Turn 6

No guard movement.

CCS on foot fail to kill sternguard. CCS in chimera fail to kill captain. Melta vets only kill one marine from combat squad in ruin.

In fists shooting only 4 guard are killed from the vet squad.

In assault hammer terminators wreck CCS chimera, captain then charges CCS and kills them all.

Fists win 16 kill points to 5.



Summary:

Ooops, the guard have just taken another ass kicking, this time a severe beating :( . The fists have always been a tough army, and when they win they win. I don’t think I made any mistakes this time, I perhaps should have laid more torrent of fire into squads to make sure they were killed instead of splitting fire at different units. I guess I need to change tactics and that the guard need a lot of fire power to do the job. Though, the fists did have a lot of luck with armour saves.

Units wise the tactic of vendetta and melta vets worked ok. Vendettas again I found mediocre, though they should have popped both razorbacks I guess the dice were against me. The melta vets should have popped both land raiders, though wrecking one cannot be complained about. They are a suicide unit, but I guess if they get the job done they’ve succeeded.

Both CCS work better with medi-kits. I rolled several 1’s and after it was all said and done I lost one plasma gunner from each squad, not so bad. It also helped a lot with saves as well. Impressed with these and keeping them, plasma puts the fear in everything including terminators, and I can issue plenty of orders.

Flamer vets worked well. Happy with those. Flamers on the chimeras worked ok too.

Hellhounds lasted longer, scored plenty of wounds but the fists just kept passing the armour saves :(

The battle tank does well to get those early shots in. Can pop armour and kill troops, killed its own troops anyway.

Demolishers seem to just get stuck in terrain, god knows why. One killed several terminators. Like them

I guess over all I need to change tactics with my imperial guard and go with torrent of fire to get the job done. I’m not playing space marines any more! I’m quite happy with the list and doubt I’ll make any more changes now. Well do some more testing though.

I think if I totalled it up correctly; you had 19/20 KPs to his 10. Ouch. I guess that's one of the downsides to being able to field lots of squishy units, you really feel the pain in KP missions.

On any other day you'd have seriously hampered him, sometimes the dice are with you and sometimes they ain't.

Good report though! What I'd say in, especially KP games, is pick a unit that will cause you the most grief next turn and wipe it out completely. Even one marine is a nuisance to kill, as epitomised by that PF Sarge.

L. Wrex

I'd drop the basic russ and take 2 Hydras instead. You'll get more dakka™ instead Also consider Banewolfs instead of Hellhounds. Try it out and see what happens.

Since the mission is KP, is there really a reason to rush forward? I can totally imagine just castling somewhere with russes giving cover saves and outshoot him for a few turns while trying run away for close range fighting. (also remember the glance and forget it rule against LR at long range)

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I think if I totalled it up correctly; you had 19/20 KPs to his 10. Ouch. I guess that's one of the downsides to being able to field lots of squishy units, you really feel the pain in KP missions.

On any other day you'd have seriously hampered him, sometimes the dice are with you and sometimes they ain't.

Good report though! What I'd say in, especially KP games, is pick a unit that will cause you the most grief next turn and wipe it out completely. Even one marine is a nuisance to kill, as epitomised by that PF Sarge.

L. Wrex

Checking out kill points the guard have 19 and the fists 16, not a massive difference, remember combat squads count as two kill points

I think some bad dice rolls were to play, and good ones for the fists. I guess its just how it is.

Aye, power fist sgt was a thorn in my side!

CaptKaruthors wrote:I'd drop the basic russ and take 2 Hydras instead. You'll get more dakka™ instead Also consider Banewolfs instead of Hellhounds. Try it out and see what happens.

I'm liking the standard battle tank, smacks marines once their transport is broken and can take out light armour. Never been a huge fan of autocannons.

Looked at banewolfs, they have the ap while hounds have the range. I'll probably give them a try and see how they play. The range on the hound does it for me

SWPIGWANG wrote:Since the mission is KP, is there really a reason to rush forward? I can totally imagine just castling somewhere with russes giving cover saves and outshoot him for a few turns while trying run away for close range fighting. (also remember the glance and forget it rule against LR at long range)

Well part the tactic is a vendetta/melta vet rush, so yeah, its needed. Also chimera carrying flamers, meltas and plasmas need to get into range anyway.

I can see the melta rush, I just don't see much point giving out basically 4kp to kill 2. It doesn't matter how many points you kill, what matters in this matchup is you don't lose units for nothing. Your army may have flamers and meltas, but the other side have meltas, fists, stenguard and lots of thunderhammers and is of course meq that chews up guardsman.

You have more firepower at >24" and you have AV12 front armor on everything. If you keep the fight at this range your opponent would have a very hard time doing damage, only having the 2LR and 3 small missile squads that can hurt your vehicles, while you have 5multilasers, 6plasmagun, 6lascannon, 1battlecannon, 2demolisher cannon that can hurt your opponent's vehicles at that range.

If it is possible, trading space for firepower and positional advantage works since you don't need to hold ground. Just don't let assault termies find something to hammer every turn....

Good report, and as an IG player I can see that many players like the mechvet lists, yet this scenario highlights its vulnerability wherein if the transports get squished the veterans are not numerous enough to carry the day....a mechvet list is really an incisive list..one which MUST cut sharp and quick early enough.....

I personally like hybrid lists..for only 260 pts you have 4 IG squads which you can combine...making them very resilient....and the PCS can sub for 1 veteran unit, as it can carry 4 special weapons....

I definately would have castled up. Your opponents strength was in cc...just look at his terminator load outs. You outgunned him at range, but you didn't really take advantage of it.

Nice batrep though.

Airborned and mechvets don't mean you have to rush; you could keep them in reserved in/near cover. Don't underestimate the ability of of Chimeras to cause carnage; Multilasers and hull bolters can do some damage to MEQs and even a Stubber gets lucky now and them. I'm also a little concerned by the short range of the Demolishers when you're up against a heavily-armoured CC-focused army like that; when you're playing Guard against something like that you need to level as much long-ranged firepower against them as possible before they corner you and it's down to infantry and squad heavy weapons to take them out.

If you REALLY want to keep using this pure mechvet rush list that relies on short-ranged weapons as opposed to a hybrid list, you need to re-evaluate your equipment choices. Plasmaguns and medikits are an interesting thought, but the medic can't do anything to save your men from plasma backfires AND seeing as a T3 Guardsman is going to suffer a lot of instant death anyway there's not much use for a medic which costs a whopping 30 points. Think of all the other things you could but if you cut the medics; I personally give my CCS a lascannon, but considering your style of play you may want to consider giving those squads carapace armour to decrease the number of plasma-malfunction deaths while still increasing survivability. Those 60 points could also be used giving heavy weapons and better assault weapons to some of those Vets or adding upgrades to vehicles.

I personally play a hybrid strategy with a platoon-based gunline supported by airborne meltavets and lots of long-range firepower in the form of autocannon teams, LRBTs and Executioners.

SWPIGWANG wrote:I can see the melta rush, I just don't see much point giving out basically 4kp to kill 2. It doesn't matter how many points you kill, what matters in this matchup is you don't lose units for nothing. Your army may have flamers and meltas, but the other side have meltas, fists, stenguard and lots of thunderhammers and is of course meq that chews up guardsman.

You have more firepower at >24" and you have AV12 front armor on everything. If you keep the fight at this range your opponent would have a very hard time doing damage, only having the 2LR and 3 small missile squads that can hurt your vehicles, while you have 5multilasers, 6plasmagun, 6lascannon, 1battlecannon, 2demolisher cannon that can hurt your opponent's vehicles at that range.

If it is possible, trading space for firepower and positional advantage works since you don't need to hold ground. Just don't let assault termies find something to hammer every turn....

I can socre 4 kills if lucky, vendettas can fire at different targets so four targets to shoot at with 4 units.

freddieyu1 wrote:Good report, and as an IG player I can see that many players like the mechvet lists, yet this scenario highlights its vulnerability wherein if the transports get squished the veterans are not numerous enough to carry the day....a mechvet list is really an incisive list..one which MUST cut sharp and quick early enough.....

I personally like hybrid lists..for only 260 pts you have 4 IG squads which you can combine...making them very resilient....and the PCS can sub for 1 veteran unit, as it can carry 4 special weapons....

I'm not into foot units really tbh.

Lukus83 wrote:I definately would have castled up. Your opponents strength was in cc...just look at his terminator load outs. You outgunned him at range, but you didn't really take advantage of it.

Nice batrep though.

Perhaps not, guard is a new army and I did to get into how it works properly. Though with short range weapons I need to get into the fight. I think torrent of fire is what is needed before getting into range.

Owain wrote:Airborned and mechvets don't mean you have to rush; you could keep them in reserved in/near cover. Don't underestimate the ability of of Chimeras to cause carnage; Multilasers and hull bolters can do some damage to MEQs and even a Stubber gets lucky now and them. I'm also a little concerned by the short range of the Demolishers when you're up against a heavily-armoured CC-focused army like that; when you're playing Guard against something like that you need to level as much long-ranged firepower against them as possible before they corner you and it's down to infantry and squad heavy weapons to take them out.

If you REALLY want to keep using this pure mechvet rush list that relies on short-ranged weapons as opposed to a hybrid list, you need to re-evaluate your equipment choices. Plasmaguns and medikits are an interesting thought, but the medic can't do anything to save your men from plasma backfires AND seeing as a T3 Guardsman is going to suffer a lot of instant death anyway there's not much use for a medic which costs a whopping 30 points. Think of all the other things you could but if you cut the medics; I personally give my CCS a lascannon, but considering your style of play you may want to consider giving those squads carapace armour to decrease the number of plasma-malfunction deaths while still increasing survivability. Those 60 points could also be used giving heavy weapons and better assault weapons to some of those Vets or adding upgrades to vehicles.

I personally play a hybrid strategy with a platoon-based gunline supported by airborne meltavets and lots of long-range firepower in the form of autocannon teams, LRBTs and Executioners.

The demolishers kill marines on foot, they force terminators to take invulnerable saves - terminators don't like using invulnerable saves, they like to use 2+. Demolishers might be short ranged, but feared by space marines.

Er, plasma back fire roll a save and fail and then gets feel no pain - keeps my plasma gunners alive and kicking, thats all the medi-kit is there for. Feel no pain is better than carapace armour, I get 5+/4+ instead of just a 4+.

Thanks all for the comments