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Hey guys,

This might be a silly question but since Chaos gods are manifestations of the conditions of the mortal races made manifest in the warp; hate, stagnation, change, excess, etc. Why aren't the more "positive" traits of the mortal races reflected? Where is faith, courage, honour and love?

Perhaps those emotions aren't as oft expressed but I'd still expect a reflection...

Or is it just not grimdark enough?

Faith is all of them, (Tzeench most, maybe) Courage and honor is Khorne and Love is Nurgule. Different aspects of the same god, but you don't run across these very much as, you, as an imperial, view chaos only through its warriors, where these traits are discouraged to an extent. Or at least bloodlust, sorcery and hedonisim are massively encoraged.

Hrm Fair point about love with Nurgle.

And I guess Khorne's wrath is imparted on those that kill the defenseless... tell me, does that mean that Khorne Berzerkers wouldn't ravage a civilian populace? Because that really doesn't seem the case...

Acceptance is Nurgle, love is Slaanesh. Khorne is honour and Tzeentch is hope, I think.

They would not be grimdark enough.

As has been noted Khorn is honor and valor, tzenich is hope, slanneshi is romantic love and art, and nurgle is acceptance and familial love.

I also wonder if they were once not as "evil" as they currently are, but have been "corrupted" over time as sentient creatures emotions have descended into darkness. Really, they are just a reflection of the universe. When the galaxy was at peace they were more chaotic good, or chaotic neutral. But in this dark galaxy, they are dark as well, as much a victim as everyone else.

Secondly, there were other gods who represented good things. Slaanesh ate them. Omnomnom

I think I read something once about the warp's/chaos' effect on these things. Basically, while they may attributed to the various dark powers, the power of the warp perverts and twists them, and makes them go to their extreme.

They are the good gods.. The trickster, khaine and the Emperor, etc are false gods sheesh..

The Chaos gods are not "good" in any sense of the word. Yes, they're associated with attributes that are arguably not evil(courage, etc.), but these are bastardizations and hideous exaggerations, not pure reflections of otherwise positive things.

That said, I would speculate that there are effectively no "good" powers in the Warp, with the [arguable] exception of the Emperor's warp-presence and the souls and saints tied to him. That's...pretty much it.

The Laughing god frequently hags out in the warp. He doesn't seem like that bad of a guy.

Basically because the Realm of Chaos is amoral, and the dieties that compose it are beyond notions of good and evil in the way that the sky is beyond such notions as clouds and clear.

Good and Evil, are simple concepts for simple people. People who wish to simplfy their lives into two distinct boxes.

The concept of good and evil depends heavily on your view point. You could argue that the bombing of Hiroshima was good, as it ended the war, however, for the people of Hiroshima it was evil as it destroyed lives, loved ones etc.....who is right and who is wrong?

In actual fact, none of these concepts are "real", there is no such thing as good or evil, there are just instances in time....happenings, that create more happenings, actions and reactions....looping forever through space and time.

It is an uneductaed man who speaks in "definates"....This is EVIL and This is GOOD, and I would question his right to judge.

Kilkrazy wrote:They would not be grimdark enough.

Ronin-Sage wrote:The Chaos gods are not "good" in any sense of the word. Yes, they're associated with attributes that are arguably not evil(courage, etc.), but these are bastardizations and hideous exaggerations, not pure reflections of otherwise positive things.

That said, I would speculate that there are effectively no "good" powers in the Warp, with the [arguable] exception of the Emperor's warp-presence and the souls and saints tied to him. That's...pretty much it.

Killkrazy and Ronin-Sage have it correct.

Chaos has nothing in common with any "good" attribute.
Remember, they are the RUINOUS powers not some nice misunderstood deities.

Maybe the warp doesn't contain any GOD ?

Ther denizens of the warp were twisted from the old ones usage of this realm as weapon in their struggle against
the necrons. Should have been different therefore millions of years ago.

"Hope, love, hate. All are but desire by other names. Thus it is that desire is always foremost amongst the concerns of mortals, and through their desires we shall lead them into our benighted paradise." --Proclamations of Elsand'daa'arai (Codex: Chaos Daemons, pg 33)

In terms of the Warp, there is no such thing as "good" or "bad." Concepts like "honor," moreover, are too narrow in scope to generate conscious manifestations in the Warp.

You sir, are evil...
.
.
.
For killing this thread. /JK

Nah, the Emprah is just too cool for the warp.

Who needs gods when you've got a skeleton on a chair, eh?

It has a point.

Off-topic: Dude. Where did you get that tux avatar?

On-topic: Technically, there are such things as good and evil in the Warp. Indeed, one could speculate that good and evil are most prevalent in Warp, where the souls of the living are "reflected".

Sanctjud wrote:For killing this thread.

Why aren't there good Chaos gods? Are the Tau good or evil? What happened to the missing Legions? Are there any female Space Marines? . . . these threads are my mortal enemies.

Ronin-Sage wrote:Technically, there are such things as good and evil in the Warp.

I'm pretty sure you are mistaken. Just in case I'm wrong, provide evidence.

Honour, Love, Artistry and Hope are all very much a part of the Chaos Gods. They in fact seem to be mirror images.

A Khorne Beserker would kill a civilian for the sheer kick of shedding blood, but he would not get the same joy as he would from facing a truly mighty foe on the field of battle. (And in most cases they would not resort to backstabbing either)

Slaanesh is not the god of p0rn and sex, and I imagine also has an appreciation for th fine arts, not all of them hedonisticly seductive.

Nurgle just wants to give you a hug, too bad he'll give you DA AIDS.

Tzeench? Well I'm not sure how he represents hope, actually...

The thing one must keep in mind is that all these 'good' qualities certainly don't stop them doing what they do.

@EF, regarding Tzeentch: When things are at their worst, one's only hope is change.

I think the idea is that in the grim darkness of the far future, dark emotions greatly outnumber positive ones, so the dark gods of chaos can squash "good" warp entities. As other have said the chaos gods do have a potential positive side to them.

Manchu wrote:@EF, regarding Tzeentch: When things are at their worst, one's only hope is change.

Ah, good point. However, it's not reflected anywhere else in Tzeench's characteristics.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Manchu wrote:@EF, regarding Tzeentch: When things are at their worst, one's only hope is change.

Ah, good point. However, it's not reflected anywhere else in Tzeench's characteristics.

Hmm, I disagree. Tzeentch seems to represent eternity--the endless scheming for the sake of scheming. Tzeentch, in contrast to his enemy Nurgle (patron of entropy), epitomizes the notion that there will always be another fight, another opportunity, another chance to get the upper hand--or rather another part of the plan not yet revealed even to the planner.

If there are any "Good" warp entities they must be hiding really well only revealing them selves to chosen people...

There's really no sense in talking about warp entities as good or evil. There's hardly any sense of using those terms with regard to the Grimdark at all given that they're absolutely relative to each faction.

Au Contraire, Deamons are most definitely evil.

Khornate Deamons = The epitomy of Nerdrage.

Slaanesh Deamons = fa/tg/uys fapping.

Nurgle Deamons = Only want to spread the love, with a side of AIDS!

Tzeench Deamons = Actually, these guys are pretty fething funny.

Somebody refresh my memory...

Wasn't there a story about an eldar goddess that nurgle wanted?
He finally caught her and keeps her caged up and gives her diseases from which she heals but he tests his concoctions on her.

Yeah, Isha (I think). Apparently Nurgle saved her from Slaanesh and loves her dearly. He shows that affection in wierd ways though, becuase he tests out and feeds his newest diseases and illnesses on her and sees how quickly she recovers.

If he is pleased with the effects he lets it loose on the mortal realm, and while his back is turned Isha whispers the cures and ointments for it.

See, she's a good god(dess).