Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In Codex SM, GW introduced Sternguard. Their claim to fame in the special issue ammunition, but they would also make an acceptable unit in an assault, as they have 2 attacks base.

Here's where things get fuzzy...

Their special issue ammunition only works in bolters. Despite firing the exact same round as the bolter, special issue ammuniton does *not* work in storm bolters, which are an option for Sternguard and cost more points per model than the same upgrade in any other squad or character.

Was this typical oversight, or is there a fluff reason that you can use special issue ammunition in a bolter and not in a storm bolter? Rate of fire has nothing to do with it, as you can rapid fire with a bolter and the SB is assault 2.


Basically, why have they made it impossible to use Sternguard as a hop-shoot-assault unit?

Probably the fact that the Special Issue Ammunition has to be custom crafted by the Techmarines and they don't have enough of it to load up storm bolters?

There's a number of fluff related reasons that could be considered.
A) The ammunition is too fragile/unstable to store in a storm bolter's box/drum magazine but works fine in the standard sickle pattern magazine of the Bolter.
B) The ammunition is rare enough that it can't be issued in sufficient quantities to fill storm bolter magazines.
C) The Codex Astartes says you can't. Codex Astartes is law.

I'd go with B, as you can get sickle magazines for Storm Bolters. Basically the cost of doing so, and remember that the Sternguard Veterans need to swap their magazines as the situation arises rather than when they need to reload.

stormbolters with 24 inch range 2 base shots and special ammo must have been simply overpowered during playtesting...

Sarnath666 wrote:stormbolters with 24 inch range 2 base shots and special ammo must have been simply overpowered during playtesting...

This is a good point.

The reason I wanted to run them with storm bolters, until I read that it only works in Bolters, was to run 10 of them in a Raider w/ Lysander. Hop out, bolter drill, assault.

In that capacity, I don't think it's overpowered. But when you consider the fact that someone could gate around hurling 20 shots a turn @ 24", it's pretty rough.



I don't use them anyway, but storm bolters would make them worth it to me. Meh.

The point of Sterngaurd is that they hang back and riddle the enemy with ammunition. They don't have assault weapons simply because they are not meant to assault.
Another reason could be that being able to move and shoot 24 inches with the formidable effects of Sterngaurd ammunition could be a game breaker.

Kanluwen answer B) is my vote.

To me an Assault 2 weapon means something with a high enough rate of fire to score two kills in about 5 or 6 seconds regardless of the operators accuracy while running. So loading them into Storm Bolters would be a waste.

It's not allowed because it would be totally broken.

Well, the special ammunition does vary the range of the bolter so it wouldn't be completely broken in that regard. But the fact that it ALWAYS fires twice would be the broken.

I guess it's okay in technical terms, but the choice is really to stop people getting 2 shots every turn and doing an assault

It's a difficult rule to work with, but very powerful in the right hands.


IMPORTANT NOTE FOR RAPID FIRE WEAPONS OF DIFFERENT RANGES:

an 18" RF shooting turn still shoots 12".
30" still shotts 12"
24" shoots 12".

it is not "half the range"

Kanulwen's B, but also because assault duties fall to the Vanguard Veterans.

Wouldn't it make more sense to suggest that it's simply easier to switch out magazines rather than a drum magazine? I mean that thing's pretty big, at least it should be >_>, and would you have enough room to store a drum of every type of ammo?

If you have specialized ammo I think it'd make more sense to have them in magazines so you can actually carry all of the different types, and so it'd be easier to switch between them.

...I have not handled drumbox magazines or magazines though so I could be wrong :/

But don't the Sternguard models themselves have large magazines?

Sunshine: You have a good point there mate
About the only way i could see it possible to carry 2-3 drum mags would be via drop-pouches, something marines dont use
The standard sickle mags are alot easier to transport on a marine, and due to the size difference, it makes sense to keep the smaller mags.

I know storms use sickle type aswell, but they are double sickle and not only wider, but alot more chunky aswell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: After a better look at the models, it seems they use a small type drum mag.
Maybe its a special issue type to contain the rounds?

That is generally what I thought, that they contain multiple types of ammunition.

Hmm maybe there the type of mags that are attached together? Y'know side by side? I don't know the actual name of that type of set up and the terminology to properly describe it escapes me at the moment...I haven't actually seen the models though :/

JD21290 wrote:Sunshine: You have a good point there mate
About the only way i could see it possible to carry 2-3 drum mags would be via drop-pouches, something marines dont use
The standard sickle mags are alot easier to transport on a marine, and due to the size difference, it makes sense to keep the smaller mags.

I know storms use sickle type aswell, but they are double sickle and not only wider, but alot more chunky aswell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: After a better look at the models, it seems they use a small type drum mag.
Maybe its a special issue type to contain the rounds?

Minor point of contention. Storm Bolters use a "box" styled magazine, much like you see on M249s now. The only exceptions seem to be some random character models(the old Terminator Librarian with the Force Axe, the old Terminator Captain with the Storm Bolter/Power Sword seem to use shorter magazines).
It even seems that the Sternguard Veteran models use a smaller variant of the "box" magazine on their standard bolters.

But I may be talking out of my arse. There could be other explanations, and I've yet to actually leaf through the SM Codex proper.

Kanluwen wrote:

JD21290 wrote:Sunshine: You have a good point there mate
About the only way i could see it possible to carry 2-3 drum mags would be via drop-pouches, something marines dont use
The standard sickle mags are alot easier to transport on a marine, and due to the size difference, it makes sense to keep the smaller mags.

I know storms use sickle type aswell, but they are double sickle and not only wider, but alot more chunky aswell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: After a better look at the models, it seems they use a small type drum mag.
Maybe its a special issue type to contain the rounds?

Minor point of contention. Storm Bolters use a "box" styled magazine, much like you see on M249s now. The only exceptions seem to be some random character models(the old Terminator Librarian with the Force Axe, the old Terminator Captain with the Storm Bolter/Power Sword seem to use shorter magazines).
It even seems that the Sternguard Veteran models use a smaller variant of the "box" magazine on their standard bolters.

But I may be talking out of my arse. There could be other explanations, and I've yet to actually leaf through the SM Codex proper.

All old Terminators had the double magazines. Basically 2 bolter mags clamped together. In the old fluff, you basically needed one magazine for each bolter that made up the storm bolter.

M249's are belt fed. The ammo just sits in a pouch. Same with M240's and most modern machineguns.

Some storm bolters seem to be belt fed, like those of Grey Knights. Same with heavy bolters and assault cannons, though it seems like the feed mechanism is an externally supported belt feed like that on the heavier, multibarreled machineguns.


Sternguard should have smaller magazines if they are going to be swapping ammunition types constantly. I guess GW just went with drums because drums look cool.

Still not seeing the drums...

And yes, while M249s are "beltfed", like virtually every form of LMG/SAW/HMG, the ammo *does* sit in the box. Hence..."box magazine".

Kanluwen wrote:Still not seeing the drums...

And yes, while M249s are "beltfed", like virtually every form of LMG/SAW/HMG, the ammo *does* sit in the box. Hence..."box magazine".

They look to me like snail style drums.



Compare to,



Oh yeah. The notorious (and absolutely awful in every way) Snail drums. The Sternguard models are obviously more squared off and stylized, but they look like drums to me.

Allright, that one I can see a comparison to.