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So I have been a 40K player for about a year now(yeah, sad compared to you vets I know) and I have nicely painted 1500 pt Tau, Ultramarine and Necron armies. I still enjoy playing 40K games, but I am 'burning out' a bit on painting GW minis. I was thinking of branching out into Warmachine, if nothing else for variety, and I thought I'd pick the brains of you experts here...

How would you rate the quality of the PIP sculpts compared to GW? Similar quality- different? etc.

Are the metal models made by PIP as fiddly and in need of a lot of prep in constructing models(like GW metals), is any of the Warmachine stuff in plastic? How good is the PIP kit designs(from strictly a construction standpoint)?

Are the sizes of forces/investment similar to build a Warmachine army(compared to 40K)?- or can I play with smaller number of models?

When I got started with 40K, vets on forum such as this one gave me good advice to get started in identifying the 'must haves'- Black Reach, Battleforce, etc. What are the 'must haves' to get started in Warmachine?

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback.

First off welcome to the world of warmachine, as to your questions.
Privateer fig's are very nice, very little flash or moldline issues. Some of the models are very fiddly to put together some are just one piece, just depends on the unit, as for cost it depends on what kind of army you want to play and at what point level.
Some army's are going to be considerably cheaper than others, but for a 35pt army you will easily spend 150.00 bucks.
Keep in mind some casters support a very jack heavy playstyle if you choose to play one of these casters your model count should be pretty low,
or you can go the other route and play with lot's of infantry which can get very expensive.
Hope this helps.

For almost any faction, you can't go wrong getting the starter kits. For the most part all the casters can be decent, once you know how they play and how to use them.

Sadly, until they update the boxes, you'll also need a box of your faction's unit cards, as they just updated the rules to Warmachine Mk II and the units have changed.

Another good thing to get is the faction's new plastic jack kit - they're coming out now, and each one ends up being able to build like 3 models. Use magnets and you get a lot of utility from the kits.

In my experience, PP's metal models need very little doctoring to fit together, and often very little flash removal. Very nice models, very nice kits. Sometimes though I have to wonder what they're thinking - some models have VERY tiny connection points. The Avatar of Menoth, for example, separately glues each of its tapestries to its shoulders, and the Protectorate of Menoth Wracks have chains glued onto the very sides that dangle down with heavy weights at the end. Yeah, very sturdy! Conversion work [and/or pinning] lessens this, but nonetheless the models look good.

Their plastics, though, I'm finding I don't like. Anything from really bad mould lines to warping to just plain not fitting right [big peg, small hole, LOTS of filing to get them to fit]. We'll see what their jack kits turn out to be, but my experience with the Bastions almost makes me wary of their sister models, the new Cinerators coming out.

How would you rate the quality of the PIP sculpts compared to GW? Similar quality- different? etc.

The older Prime and escalation sculpts are just plain bad, however the sculpts since Apotheosis are comparable to newer GW sculpts.

Are the metal models made by PIP as fiddly and in need of a lot of prep in constructing models(like GW metals), is any of the Warmachine stuff in plastic? How good is the PIP kit designs(from strictly a construction standpoint)?


On the plus side there isn't alot of hanging metal on the PP models unlike the GW ones. However a good portion of the PP sculpts are just a pain in the buttox. Kits like Terminus and karchev will make you pull your hair out with you bloody fingers. Alot of the spear like things on the PP models have a tenancy to bend more than reaper weapons (Iron Fangs for example) however on the plus side it appears that alot of the newer stuff will be released in plastic.


Are the sizes of forces/investment similar to build a Warmachine army(compared to 40K)?- or can I play with smaller number of models?

You play with a smaller number of models and the intital cost for a good sized army is close to 150 USD.

When I got started with 40K, vets on forum such as this one gave me good advice to get started in identifying the 'must haves'- Black Reach, Battleforce, etc. What are the 'must haves' to get started in Warmachine?

Depending on what faction you pick a battle box is a good start.

On a side note I wouldn't recommend playing Warmachine. I have been playing since Prime and have completely lost interest at this point. There are Several reasons why.

1. Model Power creep, in almost every case the newest models released with a faction are a MUST have This gets really old when models you've had for years just collect dust

2. The ungodly amount of Eratta PP has, MK2 has erased that at the moment but give it time, PP will have 50 pages of online eratta in less than a few years again

3. WM is a game that has alot of "Game changing abilities" Feats are the most famous, I do not personally like this as it causes the game to be more about unit combos than real strategy. (its possible to have killed 3/4 of an opponents army then lose your war caster to a feat and odd unit combo thus losing the game)

4. PP fans give PP FAR too much slack.

Gareson wrote:

Are the sizes of forces/investment similar to build a Warmachine army(compared to 40K)?- or can I play with smaller number of models?

You'll start with a smaller force, but expanding outward you'll find yourself deciding
how deep you want to buy into a particular faction.

As Red Lives mentions, the game changes frequently, but I don't think it's as bad
as entire models becoming obsolete. I think more like duplicate units become
obsolete as new models make army variety viable. You still see people using most
of the prime warcasters/warlocks, and you still see people using Journeyman, Trenchers,
Long Gunners, Doom Reavers, Winter Guard, Iron Fang Pikemen, Skarlock, McThralls,
Eiryss...all models from Prime.

So the game changes. I think there's enough out there right now that you could
build a solid force that could withstand the rigors of change. However, I don't think
you should make a gimmick/spam list and expect it to stand the test of time (same
as in 40k, actually).

I say paint what you like, play what you like, and you'll enjoy the game even if the
meta changes around you.

@RedLives: from your comments I take it that you do not like the game very much...

I like the fact that unlike 40k where first turn can lose you the game in WM you still have to watch out for the last models in a Warmachine army. If you lose your caster you lose the game, so every last unit is valuable.

Back to the post...

In my eyes PP has made a great game where combo's matter. This is something you have to like, but not new to PP. GW does this too but to a lesser degree. Anyway the game keeps you on your toes for the entire time as a slipup will make your caster go byebye....

The models are nice. They are something of an acquired taste in some cases. I think the cryxian sculpts are mostly fine. Only the bile thralls I do not like. the rest are varying from good to excellent. As for problems during building, I have a few models that where hard to put together (still figuring out terminus) but the standard models and jacks are not that hard. I have not had to use lots of green stuff or pinning to build my stuff, except where I choose to use them. (converting Deathjack to make him look a little different...)

the game itself is easy to start. Get the battlebox and play some games. add a few solos and then look at the most basic troop you can find for the fraction you choose. (cryx = mech thralls, cygnar = longgunners, khador = winterguard, protectorate = zealots, mercs = steelheads)

an army of battle box, 2 solos and a unit will cost you about €100, depending on what country you live and discounts you get.

hope you know enough for know, otherwise ask away...

if your interested in something different, give it a try. every game has it's ditractors. i bashed PP for years unwarranted, then i tried the game and i liked it.

its competative, but its fast, the models are nice, and its a change of pace both rules wise and model painting wise from GW. bottom line is, the game is fun, fast paced and in your face. you have your "bad" and "annoying" powergamers, but they are there in any game.

the game is alot more then "combos". while this holds some water, there are still dice, there is still chance. sure, there is alot of "synergies" that onlookers might see as "only combos" but thats just how the game works. if your banking on a hit and roll triple 1's, then the combo doesnt start. dice still rule the system.

im going to end with that, otherwise its just gonna end up being a flame fest about why GW is superior to PP, which you can find all over the place these days.

Thanks to everyone for your feedack- it swayed me to get started. I think I'll go Khador too.

I did have two more questions-
Someone in the thread mentioned newer, plastic Warjack models...

1. Can I assume the ones in the Starter Boxes are metal?

2. How will I know the plastic kits when I see them?(whether in store or online)
(I am assuming the warjack kits are boxed, not in blisters)

1. Starter boxes are metal.

2. Here's how you know:

i would say 98% of the line is still metal, and most of it is going to stay that way. i like the heft of the metal models personally.

some warjacks come in blisters, but the larger ones are in boxes. cryx has their little bone jacks 2 per blister, as well as the gunner and blaster from the rhulic dwarves.

the quality of older models is hit or miss, im painting cygnar stormblades right now and 5/6 are great models but the sixth's head did not fit at all durring assembly. the sculpting quality is about average for metals produced at that time with a few great ones and a few stinkers.
the newer models are superbly sculpted and go together like any other metal model. most of the issues people have with models now are either due to artistic taste or quirks of the individual models.

to compare the game to 40k imagine if all hqs were special character psykers and the only vehicles were more like wraithlords, using mc rules. all equipment options are removed except variant selections and adding certain special weapons and veteran officers to units(you literally add a whole new guy not just give an existing one a new gun). heavy weapon teams like imperial guard have are present but are their own unit. next throw the force organization chart out the window and apply an 0-1, 0-2, or unlimited availability to everything.
the game has vastly different mechanics than 40k but thats a good start to understand the differences in army building. as others noted the main book dose not contain choices you grow out of, those models generally form the core of your faction. 'must-have' models tend to be support models that protect or buff your own models or inhibit enemy models more than just doing damage, an example would be the choir of menoth.

Mal, are you painting Retribution? What color?

Now that I have my MKII rulebook in hand from thewarstore.com I am shocked by what a value it is. I run a gaming club at the high school where I teach and we have just begun 40K this year as part of our after school activities. When all the 40K student players saw my Warmachine rulebook today they were as impressed as I was.

We were discussing how much more of a value the full color Warmachine rulebook was compared to the $50 40K rulebook. I am sure I'll be ruffling some feathers here but, as I see it, the WM rulebook has it all over 40K in terms of color pages, interesting lore, unit and faction profiles, etc. It's just better.

I still consider myself a 40K player but having perused the WM ruleset, I have to admit- it seems light years ahead of 40K in terms of originality, efficiency and logic. Something tells me I've discovered a superior game from a superior company. I hope GW is taking notes.

As another new player coming out of 40k (who also just got their Prime MkII through the post), I'd agree that the book is a nice value and is very prettily done. The rules are interesting and certainly seem fresh if you've just been playing GW games for the past several years. I can't agree with you on the lore part, however. That has been the major stumbling block for me so far (given that I haven't played any games) because its seems pretty obviously a homebrew D&D campaign to me. I guess they need another decade or so of story development to feel more "lived in" and otherwise authentic. Maybe a novel series? PP seems well eager about fiction from the looks of their rulebooks and No Quarter.

I prefer 40K fluff too, to be honest. Though the low points in 40K fluff are much lower than the lows in PP fluff.
You're right though, too much like a homebrew D'n'D campaign. The D'n'D nerd in me likes it sometimes, but it can be a bit limiting.

As a game system though I find it to be ahead of GW in terms of how engaging and challenging it is.

I started wargaming with Warmachine. Jumped onto Hordes, and now into 40k.

Q:How would you rate the quality of the PIP sculpts compared to GW?

A:To me, both companies release outstanding stuff. The good thing about PP sculpts is that every faction is very different from one another. I can't say the same about the Space clones of 40k.

Q:Are the metal models made by PIP as fiddly and in need of a lot of prep in constructing models(like GW metals), is any of the Warmachine stuff in plastic? How good is the PIP kit designs(from strictly a construction standpoint)?

A:The metal models of PP had little prep needed in my experience, though some models are a real pain to assemble (I'm looking at you, Man o Wars!). Don't have experience yet in plastic, and I've heard different opinions from all over.

Q:Are the sizes of forces/investment similar to build a Warmachine army(compared to 40K)?- or can I play with smaller number of models?

A:The smallest point game is 15, which is basically the battlebox for most factions. You can minimize cost by using only warcasters, warjacks and solos (and it's a good way to start out, btw). Like 40k, however, at some point you'd have to grow the army, mainly out of variety rather than necessity. Take a good look at the faction you are interested in, and plan accordingly. A good, well rounded army plays alot like the 40k FOC. You've got hard-hitters, support, basic frontliners, and a smattering of solos

Q:When I got started with 40K, vets on forum such as this one gave me good advice to get started in identifying the 'must haves'- Black Reach, Battleforce, etc. What are the 'must haves' to get started in Warmachine?

A:The battlebox of the faction of your choice is always a sound investment. From there, you can:
i) buy a solo: In some cases, this solo fills in the extra couple of points needed for a 15 point game. eg, the Khador battlebox is 11 points. Getting a couple of manhunters would ound it nicely to 15 points

ii) buy a unit: In the same case as above, a unit of widowmakers/winterguard/ternions can get you to 15 points as well. Slightly more expensive than a couple of solos, but it means you are well on your way to a proper army

iii) buy a warjack: Once you are familiar with the caster, you can get another warjack to switch flavor. In addition, it counts alot towards the next level of play

iv) buy another warcaster: This I would recommend wholeheartedly since it alters the game tremendously

I would suggest getting models in point chunks. After the battlebox, work towards 15 points, then 25, then 35, and then finally 50 if you wish. As I stated before, plan accordingly so that you get the models you want.