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I was playing a 750pts game against necrons...

I had: 2 penal legions, a demolisher, a punisher and a company command squad with 4 meltas

He had: the Nightbringer, 3 scarab swarms, 12 Necron warriors and a Necron lord (We wanted to try out how good the Necrons are, but we didn't have 2 troop choices)

We went straight for an annihilation game...

1st turn, I start

Command squad and demolisher kill the nightbringer, one of my penal legions killed the scarabs, and my punisher finished off the warriors... No one phased out, all necrons dead

No. You were playing a jammy list, 2 leman russes vs a terribly played/Terribly made army. Also, how did your ccs get into range to kill the nightbringer with melta's?

Necrons arent weak, he played badly, you ran a cheesy list (nothing against that )

Necrons can be played well in 5e (as MonsterRain has illustrated in two or so battle reports and some other posts). They aren't as competitive as Blood Angles or something, but they aren't just plain awful.

Yeah, they are not bad but compared to all other armies they are in the bottom tier with tau and daemonhunters.

This has to be fake. How does a Punisher kill a squad of 12 necron warriors? The Punisher cannon should kill 2.1 necron warriors before WBB.

How are you close enough to melta the nightbringer? For that scenario to work out, you would have to hit and wound with every weapon, and he would have to fail every save.

Griever wrote:This has to be fake. How does a Punisher kill a squad of 12 necron warriors? The Punisher cannon should kill 2.1 necron warriors before WBB.

How are you close enough to melta the nightbringer? For that scenario to work out, you would have to hit and wound with every weapon, and he would have to fail every save.

Yeah I agree. This has to be fake.

It's not fake!

I got 1 wound with the meltas (luck), 1 wound with the Master of ordnance and the demolisher did a lot of damage too! (since the Nightbringer is a Monstrous Creature I had fun with orders
The Punisher killed 6 or 7 warriors I think and the rest were finished off with the Lascannon and Plasma Cannon sponsons

the Game was a Dawn of War annihilation, and my friend... (I'm trying to make him create a Dakka accountt ) thought that I couldn't seize the initiative (We used the method in which he has to throw a dice, on a one I seize the initiative... and guess what?

...my luckiest game ever


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sluggaslugga wrote:It's not fake!

I got 1 wound with the meltas (luck), 1 wound with the Master of ordnance and the demolisher did a lot of damage too! (since the Nightbringer is a Monstrous Creature I had fun with orders
The Punisher killed 6 or 7 warriors I think and the rest were finished off with the Lascannon and Plasma Cannon sponsons

the Game was a Dawn of War annihilation, and my friend... (I'm trying to make him create a Dakka accountt ) thought that I couldn't seize the initiative so he placed his miniatures very close to mine (We used the method in which he has to throw a dice, on a one I seize the initiative... and guess what?

...my luckiest game ever

The question stands, how did you get the meltas in ranges and fire the MoO in the same turn. Even if you both started on the edge of your deployment zones opposite each other (24" apart) you wouldn't make the range until turn two. And even if you moved 6" and had deployed 18" apart you wouldn't have been able to use the MoO. This means you had to start at least 12" apart. That's before taking into account your opponent not deploying directly in front of you if he had...

Edit: also, did your friend remember WBB rolls...

I wish it was fake... and it might be, but really a nightbringer in a 750 point list. and only one troop choice, if the squad is wiped then no WBB rolls. honestly, with a list like that it probably wasn't even worth testing. No way to truly see how the necrons play.

There's not much that I can say that hasnt been said already:

-Your opponent was using a really weak list.
-You were using a list which, quite frankly, was a bit unfair for 750 points.
-This is not a very good example overall of how Necrons play or what they are capable of. Yes, they have their problems, but declaring them weak from just one lucky win is false reasoning.

It should be added that declaring Necrons to be weak after the aforementioned victory...doesnt exactly come across as a good display of gaming etiquette.

Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote:There's not much that I can say that hasnt been said already:

-Your opponent was using a really weak list.
-You were using a list which, quite frankly, was a bit unfair for 750 points.
-This is not a very good example overall of how Necrons play or what they are capable of. Yes, they have their problems, but declaring them weak from just one lucky win is false reasoning.

It should be added that declaring Necrons to be weak after the aforementioned victory...doesnt exactly come across as a good display of gaming etiquette.

How is my list unfair? I believe GW designed these codexes/army books to not be unfair.
Also... i thought about it and might have a 1500pts game against a good necron player.

Go back and use the 3rd edition guard codex then. They design the codex's to some standard of fairness and internal consistency but that standard drifts over time because...

-The codex itself is balanced at a specific point range - at 750 points bringing 2 Russes is extremely powerful. It is less powerful at higher point levels where opponents can bring more threats against it and where its impact is diluted.

-The conception of what is fair changes, how many models should be on a battlefield changes and the relative value of different units change

-The rules themselves evolve to make some abilities better and others worse. Some rules that used to be unique become ubiquitous while others fade away.

calypso2ts wrote:Go back and use the 3rd edition guard codex then. They design the codex's to some standard of fairness and internal consistency but that standard drifts over time because...

-The codex itself is balanced at a specific point range - at 750 points bringing 2 Russes is extremely powerful. It is less powerful at higher point levels where opponents can bring more threats against it and where its impact is diluted.

-The conception of what is fair changes, how many models should be on a battlefield changes and the relative value of different units change

-The rules themselves evolve to make some abilities better and others worse. Some rules that used to be unique become ubiquitous while others fade away.

Lots of things in a number of codexes(some of them rather recent codexes) are rather "unfair" at ANY points level.

Was the Master of the Ordanance with the melta squad.. if so, IIRC he can't use his bombardment if he moves.. just fyi

mpangelu wrote:Was the Master of the Ordanance with the melta squad.. if so, IIRC he can't use his bombardment if he moves.. just fyi

I know dude.

I'd say one victory, even a curb stomp, isn't enough to condemn any army. As has been said before, the other player took a horrible army. There is no excuse for fielding only one squad of Warriors in any game. The Nightbringer was a bad idea considering you had a squad with meltas and that was the only thing that could reliably kill those tanks. Half the army was made of Scarabs which are only good for cannon fodder.

Here's what I would have fielded:
-1 Monolith
-2 squads of 10 Warriors each
-1 Lord
-1 Tomb Spyder

So your friend's nightbringer failed five 4+ invul saves at once? While I know it's possible (had an opponent fail 11 in one turn once) I still find it hard to believe. One regular opponent of mine plays Necrons and I have never killed his nightbringer.

This game taught my opponent something though...
Never count on you going first.

sluggaslugga wrote:It's not fake!

I got 1 wound with the meltas (luck), 1 wound with the Master of ordnance and the demolisher did a lot of damage too! (since the Nightbringer is a Monstrous Creature I had fun with orders
The Punisher killed 6 or 7 warriors I think and the rest were finished off with the Lascannon and Plasma Cannon sponsons

the Game was a Dawn of War annihilation, and my friend... (I'm trying to make him create a Dakka accountt ) thought that I couldn't seize the initiative (We used the method in which he has to throw a dice, on a one I seize the initiative... and guess what?

...my luckiest game ever

Impossible in several different ways. In Dawn of War units deploy more than 18" away from enemy units. You could not possibly have started the game within melta range. If you were the one seizing the initiative then you would have been the one who was originally to go second, meaning that you would have deployed second as well. The Necron player would not have been placing his units very (illegally) close to yours, it would have to have been the other way around.

Dawn of War deployment only allows one HQ and two troops units to start on the board. You could not possibly have killed the scarabs on the first turn of the game since your opponent has not had the chance to bring them on the board.

Exactly, you may have had the HQ and two penal units out in the middle, and his NB and warriors as well would be 18+ inches away from you, the other stuff would have crawled onto the table on your edge, and it is a NIGHT-FIGHT on that first turn, so you have to roll to just see if you can see his units. Plus you have yourself listed as Finland and he America.

Raxmei wrote:

sluggaslugga wrote:It's not fake!

I got 1 wound with the meltas (luck), 1 wound with the Master of ordnance and the demolisher did a lot of damage too! (since the Nightbringer is a Monstrous Creature I had fun with orders
The Punisher killed 6 or 7 warriors I think and the rest were finished off with the Lascannon and Plasma Cannon sponsons

the Game was a Dawn of War annihilation, and my friend... (I'm trying to make him create a Dakka accountt ) thought that I couldn't seize the initiative (We used the method in which he has to throw a dice, on a one I seize the initiative... and guess what?

...my luckiest game ever

Impossible in several different ways. In Dawn of War units deploy more than 18" away from enemy units. You could not possibly have started the game within melta range. If you were the one seizing the initiative then you would have been the one who was originally to go second, meaning that you would have deployed second as well. The Necron player would not have been placing his units very (illegally) close to yours, it would have to have been the other way around.

Dawn of War deployment only allows one HQ and two troops units to start on the board. You could not possibly have killed the scarabs on the first turn of the game since your opponent has not had the chance to bring them on the board.

Scarab problem: He had 1 troop, I told you it was a test game!
Deployement: 18''...really? I asked him if there were any special rules for DoW, and he said no.

That's a terrible list on his part. Scarab swarms are garbage, and the nightbringer tied up too many other choices. Your list was anyway, IMO. "how can I kill necrons without even trying? Oh yeah, I can use a demolisher"

Samus_aran115 wrote:That's a terrible list on his part. Scarab swarms are garbage, and the nightbringer tied up too many other choices. Your list was anyway, IMO. "how can I kill necrons without even trying? Oh yeah, I can use a demolisher"

And a Punisher