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So, first try using my new 'nids in a full sized game with a pre-planned list as opposed to something I threw together to fit the models I had. Still have some changes I want to make, but am working on some conversions for that. This is also a game with a record number of failed attempts to destroy vehicles.

My List:
Swarmlord
2x Tyrant Guard

Tervigon w/ Toxin Sacs, Catalyst & Onslaught
Tervigon w/ Toxin Sacs, Catalyst & Onslaught
12x Termagant
12x Termagant

3x Hive Guard
3x Hive Guard
3x Hive Guard

Trygon Prime
Trygon Prime

Chaos List(very very approximate):
Kharn the Betrayer
5ish Terminators?(I honestly am not sure what was all here, as they didn't get to do anything the entire game and never left the land raider).
Land Raider

~10 berserkers w/ leader in a possessed rhino
~10 plague marines w/ 2x plasmaguns in a possessed rhino

2x Obliterators
Vindicator - Possessed
Defiler

Mission: Annihilation
Deployment: Dawn of War

Pregame thoughts: Dawn of War...I hate DoW. I knew it was going to screw this list over. My swarlord would either have to footslog it from the board edge or not have any guards. Still, with 9 hive guards and 2 Trygons all of his vehicles except the land raider are gonna be swiss cheese, and the Trygons should have a good chance on the Land Raiders. If I can pop his berserker rhino far enough back they won't be much of a threat. Kharn is worrisome, but oh well.

This is actually a picture of after the end of turn 1, approximately:


We roll to see who goes first. I win and let him go first.

He deploys the berserker transport on the board, about halfway forward on his side. His oblits were deep striking.
I didn't deploy anything. Everything except the trygons would be coming in turn 1, they were deep striking.

Fail to seize iniative.

Turn 1 Chaos:
He moved his berserker rhino forward a bit and popped smoke. Everything else came on, other rhino moving at cruising speed. He had nothing to shoot but ran the defiler. Nothing to assault.

Turn 1 'nids:
Everything but the trygons move on. Tervigons Catalyst themselves.
9 Hive Guard open fire on the berserker rhino. Between the cover save and not managing to roll higher than a 3 on the damage chart(with possession ignoring shaken and stunned results), I failed to do more than destroy the twin linked bolter. 18 Impaler cannon shots...and couldn't even destroy a rhino. This is a trend that would continue the entire game. Swarmlord, tervigons, and termagants all run.

End of Turn 1: 0 - 0

Turn 2 Chaos:
Oblits come on, coming out next to the crater to my left. His berserker rhino speeds between the ruins in the middle and on my right. His plague marines empty out and hid behind the little wall they are next to. Defiler and Land Raider go forward a bit to the left of the far left ruin.
Everything he can fire with opens fire, the result being a single wound off the tervigon on the left, 1 wound on one of the left hive guard, and 3 termigants from the left squad dead.

Turn 2 'nids:
This turn has a few errors on my part that cost me the win, or at least a tie.
Both Tyrgons come on. I try and place the first one near the vindicator behind the left ruin. Thanks to horrible scatter roll, it scatters off the board, and I roll a 2 and it falls off the edge of the world. Just great. I try to put the other one close to where that one was supposed to go, and it ends up hitting its spot. That could have gone better(Error 1, getting an expensive model killed before it does anything).
Both Tervigons spawn Termagants(Error 2, creating kill points in a KP mission). One on my left spawns 17 and burns out, one on the right spawns 10 and burns out. At least I made a lot! Both Tervigons FNP themselves.
Everything moves forward, swarmlord and hive guard moving into the ruins near the right edge, The termagant squad on the left who took a few casualties move into the ruins for cover from his big guns. Error 3 is right here, as in order to get them into the ruins they had to bunch up. Left tervigon and his spawned termagants move towards the oblits. Right tervigon moves up to get ready to attack the rhino if my luck with destroying vehicles continues. Spawned termagants on the right move to the right a bit to get ready to fight the stuff in the rhino. Other squad moves into the ruins next to the swarmlord. Hive guard advance slightly.

Ok, there is a rhino right out in the open. It has no smoke. I have 9 hive guard who can shoot at it. I unload 18 shots into it, and fail to do any damage. How is that even possible? Tervigon on the left fires its stinger salvo at oblits, doing nothing, one on the right fires at the rhino also doing nothing. Single Trygon prime fires its 12 shots into the side of the vindicator, doing absolutely nothing.

Onto assault phase. Only thing to do here is the Tervigon assaulting the rhino on the right...and failing to damage it despite 2 hits.
After all that, my turn is over, with nothing destroyed still.

End of Turn 2: Nids 0 - Chaos 1

Chaos Turn 3:
His berserkers disembark and squeeze through to get in place to assault my rightmost squad of termagants...which actually will work pretty well for me. Their rhino for some reason tries to tank shock the termagants in the middle ruins, they just get out of the way, and the rhino ends up immobilizing itself due to terrain. He moves his vindicator forward 6" and moves the empty plague marine rhino behind it to try and deny my Trygon assault on it. Defiler and land raider continue to move forward.

Shooting, his plague marines get a few pot shots on the Trygon but do nothing except almost fry one of the plasma gunners. His vindicator fires on my left hive guard and finishes off the wounded hive guard in the left squad. His land raider fires on the Trygon and does 1 wound. His defiler fires its battle cannon at a squad of termagants in the middle ruins. Does a direct hit...and I fail all 9 4+ cover saves, killing the unit. Oblits fire a couple plasma cannon shots at the termagants coming towards them, doing enough wounds to almost wipe them out as not enough are in cover for them to get a cover save. They go to ground and save a few, still lose 6. Berserkers fire their pistols at the rightmost termagants, killing a couple.

Assault phase, the berserkers charge the termagants and wipe them out. This puts them in the open to face some retribution.

Nid turn 3:
Swarmlord moves towards the berserkers to get within psychic power range. Right tervigon and the remaining right termagants move to get within assault range of the berserkers. Left tervigon moves to get within assault range on the oblits, although his termagants going to ground leaves him rather vulnerable without support. Trygon moves to go around the rhino trying to get between it and the vindicator, going through ruins to do so. Both Tervigons FNP themselves again.

Shooting phase, termagants and tervigon on right fire at the berserkers, killing 1. Swarmlord uses paroxysm and leech essence on the berserkers, killing 1 and reducing their WS to 1. The rightmost hive guard squad fires on the berserkers, killing another one. Middle hive guard squad fires on something(don't remember what) and did nothing. Remaining 2 hive guard in the left squad fire on the oblits and do one wound. Trygon runs to make sure it will be in assault range of the vindicator.

Assault phase, the Trygon manages to get into btb with the vindicator. 4 hits, 3 pens and 1 glance...and I destroy its cannon and nothing else. Wtf. Left tervigon assaults the oblits, finishing off the wounded one but taking 2 wounds in return. That puts him down to 3 wounds. On the right side, the tervigon and termagants assault the berserkers. The zerks go first, killing 3 termagants and doing nothing to the tervigon, and only took a couple casualties in return. Lose 1 more termagant to feerless save.

End of Turn 3: Nids 0 - Chaos 3

Chaos Turn 4
His land raider and defiler continue to slowly move their way down to where the oblits and tervigon are fighting. His weaponless vindicator moves way from the Trygon, and the rhino moves in between them to where the Trygon can't get around it. Plague marines move to get closer to the trygon.

Shooting, his plague marines put 1 wound on the trygon with a plasmagun, but the gunner fries himself in the process. Land raider fails to hurt the trygon. Defiler shoots its battle cannon at my left hive guard squad, killing another one. Vindicator tries to fire its havok launcher at the trygon, but does no damage.

Assault, left tervigon is still whiffing against the oblits, who reduce him to one wound. The berserkers fail to do any harm to the tervigon or termagants, and they reduce the squad to one model.

Nid Turn 4
Swarmlord starts to move up the ruins towards where the vindicator/rhino/plague marines are. Right 2 hive guard squads move into cover a bit better. The termagants who had formerly gone to ground can now move again, so they move to get into range to help the tervigon in assault.

Shooting, the hive guards manage to immobilize the vindicator. Trygon fails to do anything to rhino. Single remaining left hive guard tries to shoot the defiler, but like everything else doesn't do much.

Assault, the swarmlord attacks the immobilized/weaponless rhino in the ruins, causing it to explode. Trygon blows off the TL bolter and immobilizes the rhino. Tervigon and termagants kill the now WS 5 berserker with no casualties. In the left combat, however, they kill one oblit and put 1 wound on the other, but in return the remaining oblit is able to kill the tervigon, whose explosion manages to kill the entire termagant squad. Crappy.

End of Turn 4: Nids 2 - Chaos 5

Chaos turn 5
Nothing moves.

Shooting, plague marines put another wound on trygon, remaining oblit and land raider kill the remaining hive guard in the left squad. Defiler tries to shoot the middle hive guard squad with its battle cannon, but as a result of the drift it only puts one wound on them, however it reduces the remaining termagant squad to 2 models.

Assault, nothing happens(we realize afterwards I should have been able to attack his immobilized rhino with the Trygon).

Nid turn 5
Remaining 2 termagants make a straight line for cover. Swarmlord moves to try and get within psychic power range of plague marines.

Shooting, one hive guard squad finally kill the vindicator, causing an explosion that hits the plague marines, unfortunately killing nothing. Other hive guard squad finishes off the remaining oblit. Trygon fails to hurt rhino with its spines. Swarmlord not in range of plague marines.

Assault, Trygon wrecks the rhino.

End of turn 5: Nids 5 - Chaos 6

We roll to see if the game continues, it does.

Chaos Turn 6:
Not much happens. His land raider moves forward and puts another wound on the Trygon, reducing it to 2 wounds. Defiler tries to take out the 2 man squad of termagants, but they both make their cover saves. Plague marines run away so the swarmlord can't reach them.

Nid turn 6:
Trygon moves forward to get within assault range of the land raider. Hive guard and termagants move to get out of LoS of the defiler in case there is a turn 7. Trygon runs to get within 6 inches. 3 hive guard are in range to shoot the land raider, do nothing.

Assault phase, the Trygon manages to get within btb with the land raider. If I kill this I will tie the game. If I kill this and the game doesnt' end, Kharn and his termies are going to rip the Tyrgon to pieces. 7 attacks, 4 hit...and didn't even get a single glance. 6 + 2d6 x4 and I didn't even manage to glance.

Game ends at that point. Final score: Nids 5, Chaos 6

Post game thoughts: Holy crap, how is it possible to fail to destroy vehicles that much? I don't know how many shaken/stunned results the possession of all his vehicles ignored, but it was a lot. There is no way his vehicles should have survived as well as they did. I made a few mistakes in the game. It was probably a bad idea to bother spawning any swarms, although getting 2 large ones was nice. Losing one Trygon prime to deepstrike mishap sucked. It was probably a bad idea to assault the oblits with just the tervigon after the termagants went to ground, but if I hadn't they would have just unloaded on him next round and there was no way to get him in cover. Onslaught on the Tervigons saw no use at all. I bought to use with the Trygons, but that ended up not happening. Might drop it in the future.

The dice definately weren't with me this game, otherwise the outcome may have been much different.

Nice report, but try not to give away the outcome of the game until the actual end of the battle report. It ruined it for me.

I was under the impression that Swarmie would get his guard if he started on the table. Tyrant Guard do not take up an HQ slot. They're an upgrade squad for a Tyrant.

Everything I've said indicates that although they do not take up a HQ slot in the force restrictions, they are still bought and treated as a different squad, similar to how a troop choice and its transport are considered 2 units when deploying them in Dawn of War. Since you cannot deploy 2 HQs in Dawn of War, you cannot deploy the Guard and The Tyrant/Swarmy.

bucheonman wrote:I was under the impression that Swarmie would get his guard if he started on the table. Tyrant Guard do not take up an HQ slot. They're an upgrade squad for a Tyrant.

Khisanth Magus wrote:Everything I've said indicates that although they do not take up a HQ slot in the force restrictions, they are still bought and treated as a different squad, similar to how a troop choice and its transport are considered 2 units when deploying them in Dawn of War. Since you cannot deploy 2 HQs in Dawn of War, you cannot deploy the Guard and The Tyrant/Swarmy.

Depends how you play it. By RAW, they are 2 separate units and thus cannot be deployed together in DoW. However, if you follow the Adepticon INAT FAQ's (like what we normally do in our local meta), than yes, you can. But you're going to have to discuss with your opponent pre-game.


@Khisanth:

I looked at the lists and thought that you would just destroy the Chaos list. But what can you do when your dice just doesn't agree with you. Your mistakes weren't too bad, though that extra trygon would have helped. It just wasn't your day.

You made another mistake. Your hive guards should have insta-killed his oblits. That would've probably saved your tervigon in assault. Then again, deepstriking his oblits instead of starting them off on the board was a mistake on your opponent's part as well.

Listwise, give your tyrant guards lash whips and downgrade your trygon primes to regular trygons.

jy2 wrote:

bucheonman wrote:I was under the impression that Swarmie would get his guard if he started on the table. Tyrant Guard do not take up an HQ slot. They're an upgrade squad for a Tyrant.

Khisanth Magus wrote:Everything I've said indicates that although they do not take up a HQ slot in the force restrictions, they are still bought and treated as a different squad, similar to how a troop choice and its transport are considered 2 units when deploying them in Dawn of War. Since you cannot deploy 2 HQs in Dawn of War, you cannot deploy the Guard and The Tyrant/Swarmy.

Depends how you play it. By RAW, they are 2 separate units and thus cannot be deployed together in DoW. However, if you follow the Adepticon INAT FAQ's (like what we normally do in our local meta), than yes, you can. But you're going to have to discuss with your opponent pre-game.

Yeah, that's a strange ruling; I'm not sure it was called for. The distinction made by the INAT folks is that if you attach a Tyrant/Swarmlord to his Guard, he's stuck there for the rest of the game, and such a decision can be made at the time of deployment. As such, they are a "single" HQ unit, as soon as you decide to group them. Personally, unless I know the INAT is in play, I just treat them as two units (and 2 KPs).

I looked at the lists and thought that you would just destroy the Chaos list. But what can you do when your dice just doesn't agree with you. Your mistakes weren't too bad, though that extra trygon would have helped. It just wasn't your day.

I thought much the same. I don't think the Trygons needed to deep strike, though - in order to inflict significant damage, the CSM were going to have to come close to the Tyranids, as 2 Oblits & a Vindicator trading shots with 9 Hive Guard shouldn't be a winning combination in a KP game. As such, the Trygons would have been okay moving on Turn 1 & running upfield.

Don't be afraid to spawn 'gants in KP games, but DO wait until you have a reason to. If you think of a Tervigon as a transport, and don't "disembark" your termagants until it's time to use them, you avoid both creating "easy" KPs and running out early.

jy2 wrote:@Khisanth:

I looked at the lists and thought that you would just destroy the Chaos list. But what can you do when your dice just doesn't agree with you. Your mistakes weren't too bad, though that extra trygon would have helped. It just wasn't your day.

You made another mistake. Your hive guards should have insta-killed his oblits. That would've probably saved your tervigon in assault. Then again, deepstriking his oblits instead of starting them off on the board was a mistake on your opponent's part as well.

Listwise, give your tyrant guards lash whips and downgrade your trygon primes to regular trygons.

Dice definately weren't with me this game. I rolled really well for armor penetration with the exception of that last around against the land raider, but then absolutely horribly on the vehicle damage chart.

As for the oblit thing, yeah, completely didn't realize that until later.

I wanted to have tyrant guards with lash whips, but the only models I had ready were scything talons. Hopefully I will have the lash whip ones available for next week.

I am considering making some changes to the list. How do you think this sounds:
Drop onslaught
Drop Prime on the trygons
Add 1 termagant to each squad
Add 2 biovores.

Figure the biovores could be very useful for infantry.

Khisanth Magus wrote:
I wanted to have tyrant guards with lash whips, but the only models I had ready were scything talons. Hopefully I will have the lash whip ones available for next week.

What I did for my lash whips was to take the antennas from the mawloc kit and put it on my tyrant guards. It's a very simple conversion and looks passable enough as lash whips.



For this one, I actually used the mawloc mandibles in place of the tyrant guard's talons.

Khisanth Magus wrote:
I am considering making some changes to the list. How do you think this sounds:
Drop onslaught
Drop Prime on the trygons
Add 1 termagant to each squad
Add 2 biovores.

Figure the biovores could be very useful for infantry.

Good idea, though if you really work it (drop 3 termagants and 1 toxin sacs from your tervie), you can fit in a 3rd biovore as well.

jy2 wrote:Good idea, though if you really work it (drop 3 termagants and 1 toxin sacs from your tervie), you can fit in a 3rd biovore as well.

Don't drop toxin sacs from Tervigons. Poisonous termagants are worth more than another biovore - 2 accomplishes most of the same effect (your opponent will be hesitant to cluster up too much), but nothing replaces poison on 'gants - it turns them from a silly tarpit into something that legitimately threatens every combat unit in the game.

Janthkin wrote:

jy2 wrote:Good idea, though if you really work it (drop 3 termagants and 1 toxin sacs from your tervie), you can fit in a 3rd biovore as well.

Don't drop toxin sacs from Tervigons. Poisonous termagants are worth more than another biovore - 2 accomplishes most of the same effect (your opponent will be hesitant to cluster up too much), but nothing replaces poison on 'gants - it turns them from a silly tarpit into something that legitimately threatens every combat unit in the game.

It's a trade-off and more of an issue of preference. Would you want more offense from poisoned gants or the ability to drop 3 large pie plates? To some, they prefer lots of poisoned gants. Me, I love dropping lots of pie plates on the opponent's head and can potentially start doing damage from Turn 1 as opposed to waiting until turns 3-4 when gants are in range to do anything. There is no right or wrong really, just a matter of which you prefer more.

great battle rep thanks!

yeah i cant believe chaos won a 1850pts game with so few models!


but how can you not deploy anything?? is that a nids rule or something? cause i tought DoW you HAD to deploy 2 troops, UP TO 1 hq ....

thanks!

matvalade wrote:but how can you not deploy anything?? is that a nids rule or something? cause i tought DoW you HAD to deploy 2 troops, UP TO 1 hq ....

Nope, deploying anything in DoW is optional - "can deploy up to two units from his Troops selections and up to one unit from his HQ selections."

yeah just re-read the rulebook... wow how could i come up with that! this is gonna change a lot!

thanks

Weird game on the Chaos side. He kept his Kharn and termies inside the Raider the whole game? I guess he didn't want to risk conceding a KP.

It was kind of odd that he deployed Kharn so far from my forces, but he was intending to use them to kill my tervigon and termagants on the left side. He said he wasn't expecting the oblits to actually win vs the tervigon. After the game he said he should have just sent Kharn and the termies after the Trygon.