Doc (Doctrin Rudolph) scammed me

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**Razz**

So i have a problem with Doctrin Rudolph (facebook http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/DoctrinDraven ) and he scammed me over, big time, for 200$ + 5 of my bast (so far) painting works, it took me 1 WHOLE month to paint em. I sent them to him so he can sell them for me, (GW price of all models is 74$+ my paint job let say minimum 15$ EACH SO we now have 149$ add on that 200$ it makes up to 349$ minimum).

He asked me to work with him on the dirty water painting site and pay 1/2 of it, so i gave him a part of that half so we can start. But in the end noting happened, I've just heard that he didn't even start the transaction for buying the site. He didn't transfer my money for 1 year now, or give me the money for the minis, if he sold them or did something with them (so i am really pissed off right now). In the end, i gave him the ultimatum just to send me my minis and that I don't care about money and all i got was a block on the facebook.

Here is the really fun part of this whole mess, during the last year he had money issues and I sent him 100$ to help (you should help your friends, no?) BUT on the beginning of this year I almost lost my apartment because I was broke, and he did nothing to help, because of all this I am FORCED to MOVE next month. Was really considerate and he scammed me big time, so I am thinking of taking legal action and sue him.

What are your thoughts on this? And please tell me if he tricked someone else in the same way.

5 Models are http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/232/f/d/Empire_warrior_priest_by_razzminis.jpg , http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/228/7/2/Lysander_by_razzminis.jpg , http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2010/185/8/a/Khorne_lord_chaos_marine_40k_by_razzminis.jpg , http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/184/b/6/Nurgle_lord_by_razzminis.jpg , and i dont have the pic for the last one .

**lord_blackfang**

Uh, lesson learned? Don't give stuff to people you only know from the internet.

**Darkvoidof40k**

Ouch.

**ghosty**

Hunt him down and remove his eyes with a scalpol?

Seriously, that does kinda suck, sadly I don't really see how you can circumvent your way around the issues. Could always write a stern worded letter to him?

**Dronze**

Razz wrote:So i have a problem with Doctrin Rudolph (facebook http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/DoctrinDraven ) and he scammed me over, big time, for 200$ + 5 of my bast (so far) painting works, it took me 1 WHOLE month to paint em. I sent them to him so he can sell them for me, (GW price of all models is 74$+ my paint job let say minimum 15$ EACH SO we now have 149$ add on that 200$ it makes up to 349$ minimum).

So, lemmie get this straight... you sent models to a complete stranger, someone you've never met personally, to sell them for you...

Perhaps this seems a bit harsh, but dealing with people over the internet concerning your cash, is just a solidly stupid idea. If you think you're ever going to see that money, I've got a Nigerian Prince who is in need of some assistance moving funds out of his country. It doesn't take much to get an ebay account, or just to let your FLGS handle it, if you're so inclined.

He asked me to work with him on the dirty water painting site and pay 1/2 of it, so i gave him a part of that half so we can start. But in the end noting happened, I've just heard that he didn't even start the transaction for buying the site. He didn't transfer my money for 1 year now, or give me the money for the minis, if he sold them or did something with them (so i am really pissed off right now). In the end, i gave him the ultimatum just to send me my minis and that I don't care about money and all i got was a block on the facebook.

Getting a website set up is generally an easy thing to do, but, as with any business endeavor, well, caveat emptor. That's why, before you allow any cash to exchange hands, you get everything in writing, preferably in a hard-copy format.

Registering a domain is not expensive, and setting up a web site, at least initially, is pretty cheap, until you need additional bandwidth and server space.

Here is the really fun part of this whole mess, during the last year he had money issues and I sent him 100$ to help

Mistake number 2... He had, at this point, already bilked you for cash and models, neither of which you were going to get back. You then sent him additional funds? I hope you at least kept an email log of your transactions.

(you should help your friends, no?)

As a rule of thumb, you should get any loan or business deal in writing, and most people on the internet are not friends. Friendly acquaintances, perhaps, but until you've met them, or spent a lot of time getting to know how they operate, they're not friends.

As we say in my line of work, "C. Y. A.", Cover your a**.

BUT on the beginning of this year I almost lost my apartment because I was broke, and he did nothing to help, because of all this I am FORCED to MOVE next month.

Your fiscal irresponsibility isn't his problem. If $300 over the course of a year was enough to break you, you've got bigger problems than you seem to understand.

Was really considerate and he scammed me big time, so I am thinking of taking legal action and sue him.

Best of luck with that, it will probably cost you more to get it back than you'll actually get back, and given that this is small claims, you'll be hard pressed to actually enforce a ruling in your favor. You've got little to no ground to stand on with this one without some concrete evidence.

Sorry to say, dude, but chalk it up as a loss, move on, and learn from your mistakes for next time.

**sarpedons-right-hand**

ummmmmmm, *shrugs*

If you have proof of these transactions and some form of proof of correspondance then maybe you could try the cop's.......

On the other hand, I had VIDEO evidence of a 'friend' of mine taking money out of my account via a cashpoint, and they did nothing at all. So dont hold out much hope.....

Sorry......

**Darkvoidof40k**

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:On the other hand, I had VIDEO evidence of a 'friend' of mine taking money out of my account via a cashpoint, and they did nothing at all. So dont hold out much hope.....

If you stood there getting video evidence instead of stopping them, what exactly does that suggest about you?

I have a feeling you'll explain that you weren't really there and it was CCTV or some such, but I was commenting on face value.

**sarpedons-right-hand**

Yup, the cash point did have CCTV.
That whole episode makes me shudder when I think about it......And believe me, I wish I WAS there!!!.................
Maybe I should have described it a little better, thanks for pointing out that i looked like an ass thou

Still, I probably should not have trusted her at all.

And there in lies the moral to this sad story, NEVER trust anyone you either dont really know or have never met.

**Darkvoidof40k**

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Still, I probably should not have trusted her at all.

The two most foolish things you can possibly do in life I believe you just did.
1) Trusted a woman.
2) Trusted a woman with your money.

**sarpedons-right-hand**

Yup, colour me Stupid!!

**Kirasu**

I dont even like leaving my models at the gamestore overnight when im coming back the next morning.. and the models are in a back room just for staff

Protect your stuff cause no one else cares

**Kilkrazy**

To the OP.

I will not say that Doctrin Rudolph is a con artist because that could be taken as libel.

Unfortunately the behaviour of Doctrin Rudolph is the same as internet con artists. They bleed some money, and some more money, and even more from a victim, using a variety of reasons and excuses, then shut off communication once the victim is bled dry.

Honest people pay their debts as quickly as possible.

Your chance of recovering the money is tiny. You don't know the guy's real identity or where he lives.

Other peoples' experience shows that the money involved is too small for the law to bother with, even though it is big to you.

If you want to try anything using civil action (Small Claims), you need a detailed record of all the communications between you and Doctrin Rudolph. If you have it, there is a hard road ahead to prepare your case, and pay for it. If you got a judgement against Doctrin Rudolph he might just ignore it.

Personally I would take this as a hard lesson. I'm sorry it happened. Hopefully you will recover from the loss and be very careful next time.

**RogueMarket**

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to give a headsup - I've had business dealings and alike with Doctrin on Rogue-market. He attempted to utilize RM for his own personal gain through having people send him items and he as a middle man 'helps' sell those for them on their behalf. He also did a large scale amount of trades with others. At that point I requested him to provide me payments as if a sponsor and just like the OP he kept on 'assuring' me that one day he would pay. Despite him taking peoples stuff, and blatantly listing them on eBay for sales (which he showed me). Yet was unable to provide any means of payment even after the sales. He had reasons which were along the lines of personal, or he was using it as an investment for his growing business and alike. At that point I had enough.

Of course I don't have the past transcripts or any visual proof so I will say things simply from what I've saw personally. The OP is no where near me (hes in Serbia) and I don't even know him but my experiences and others experiences with him I'm sure are similar.

What he does though is something that - if not prepared for - you will have no way of backing up your proof.

From past patterns of what I've seen the individual develops friendship with others online through talking about the hobby and game initially. Then just more personal matters that makes the conversation feel friendly. This can last for an extended period of time (months) and from then he builds up that friendship trust and utilizes/extends it through months of 'assurance' responses that he will return the favor one day.

Just to give you a background -

He was banned permanently from our site for non-delivery towards many individuals. And also for stirring a lot of personal drama. Doct is someone who likes to conversate with a lot of individuals and befriend them. With that a clique of people ran off with him when he was banned to form some site called WargamingUndeground.com or something along those lines. Though that site quickly collapsed as he couldn't financially afford to keep it running.

He also capitalized on my past personal transgressions with another trading site (BT) by flipping the scenario that instead of him conning people, that I, was the one conning people. This of course stirred up unnecessary drama and a cover for him on his non-delivery situations. By that point my words meant nothing even if i were to inform other trading communities such as BT or Dakka.

How, and where did he contact you about this whole deal? Dakka?

While the OP has made mistakes (which is something we will all should admit) from personal experience and from viewing his dialogue with others he is someone who is or at the very least tries to be very convincing with his words. He likes to provide a lot of 'assurance' that he can get whatever job done. Be it for wargaming trade or anything web related.

Take my words for whatever its worth.

**precinctomega**

Having done some perfectly satisfactory business with Doctrin in the past, I emailed him to give him a chance to state his case and/or make amends. Unfortunately his email appears to have been closed down. As he lives in Republika Srbska, which has some pretty notorious service providers, this may not be his fault.

I believe he's still active on deviantArt, so I'll see I'd I can get him there.

R.

**RogueMarket**

precinctomega wrote:Having done some perfectly satisfactory business with Doctrin in the past, I emailed him to give him a chance to state his case and/or make amends. Unfortunately his email appears to have been closed down. As he lives in Republika Srbska, which has some pretty notorious service providers, this may not be his fault.

I believe he's still active on deviantArt, so I'll see I'd I can get him there.

R.

Doctrin lives in the United States.

Either in California or NY.

Unless you talking about the OP, who is from Serbia.

Or, unless.... Doctrin is from Republika Srbska.. is that what you are saying?

**Ozeo**

RogueMarket wrote:Hello everyone,

Just wanted to give a headsup - I've had business dealings and alike with Doctrin on Rogue-market. He attempted to utilize RM for his own personal gain through having people send him items and he as a middle man 'helps' sell those for them on their behalf. He also did a large scale amount of trades with others. At that point I requested him to provide me payments as if a sponsor and just like the OP he kept on 'assuring' me that one day he would pay. Despite him taking peoples stuff, and blatantly listing them on eBay for sales (which he showed me). Yet was unable to provide any means of payment even after the sales. He had reasons which were along the lines of personal, or he was using it as an investment for his growing business and alike. At that point I had enough.

Of course I don't have the past transcripts or any visual proof so I will say things simply from what I've saw personally. The OP is no where near me (hes in Serbia) and I don't even know him but my experiences and others experiences with him I'm sure are similiar.

What he does though is something that - if not prepared for - you will have no way of backing up your proof.

From past patterns of what I've seen the individual develops friendship with others online through talking about the hobby and game initially. Then just more personal matters that makes the conversation feel friendly. This can last for an extended period of time (months) and from then he builds up that friendship and trust and utilizes it and extends it through months of 'assurance' responses that he will return the favor one day.

Just to give you a background -

He was banned permanently from our site for non-delivery towards many individuals. And also for stirring a lot of personal drama. Doct is someone who likes to conversate with a lot of individuals and befriend them. With that a clique of people ran off with him when he was banned to form some site called WargamingUndeground.com or something along those lines. Though that site quickly collapsed as he couldn't financially afford to keep it running.

He also capitalized on my past personal transgressions with another trading site (BT) by flipping the scenario that instead of him conning people, that I, was the one conning people. This of course stirred up unnecessary drama and a cover for him on his non-delivery situations. By that point my words meant nothing even if i were to inform other trading communities such as BT or Dakka.

How, and where did he contact you about this whole deal? Dakka?

While the OP has made mistakes (which is something we will all should admit) from personal experience and from viewing his dialogue with others he is someone who is or at the very least tries to be very convincing with his words. He likes to provide a lot of 'assurance' that he can get whatever job done. Be it for wargaming trade or anything web related.

Take my words for whatever its worth.

You should feel honoured that I made an account here just for you, if you are infact who I think you are and that is the owner of RM, then you sir are one of the worst of the lot on all of warhammer forums for scamming. If memory serves me correctly you scammed more then your fair share of people under RM as well as recasting armourcast products and selling them. I would happily provide proof if you so dare? otherwise my suggestion would be to quiet down and slink away to your hole, and may god help anyone who ever trades or deals with you. I will happily let the admins know of the snake in the grass that you are. Also if you would like, I could provide some people who are looking for you or the models you promised your info on dakka and they can deal with you directly. Do you still ban people from RM after you do a shaddy deal with them? You are the VERY reason I will NEVER trade at RM and I suggest no one ever does the same.

Oz
as for doctrin, well I 100% believe the OP.

**Ma55ter_fett**

Ozeo wrote:
RogueMarket wrote:Hello everyone,

Just wanted to give a headsup - I've had business dealings and alike with Doctrin on Rogue-market. He attempted to utilize RM for his own personal gain through having people send him items and he as a middle man 'helps' sell those for them on their behalf. He also did a large scale amount of trades with others. At that point I requested him to provide me payments as if a sponsor and just like the OP he kept on 'assuring' me that one day he would pay. Despite him taking peoples stuff, and blatantly listing them on eBay for sales (which he showed me). Yet was unable to provide any means of payment even after the sales. He had reasons which were along the lines of personal, or he was using it as an investment for his growing business and alike. At that point I had enough.

Of course I don't have the past transcripts or any visual proof so I will say things simply from what I've saw personally. The OP is no where near me (hes in Serbia) and I don't even know him but my experiences and others experiences with him I'm sure are similiar.

What he does though is something that - if not prepared for - you will have no way of backing up your proof.

From past patterns of what I've seen the individual develops friendship with others online through talking about the hobby and game initially. Then just more personal matters that makes the conversation feel friendly. This can last for an extended period of time (months) and from then he builds up that friendship and trust and utilizes it and extends it through months of 'assurance' responses that he will return the favor one day.

Just to give you a background -

He was banned permanently from our site for non-delivery towards many individuals. And also for stirring a lot of personal drama. Doct is someone who likes to conversate with a lot of individuals and befriend them. With that a clique of people ran off with him when he was banned to form some site called WargamingUndeground.com or something along those lines. Though that site quickly collapsed as he couldn't financially afford to keep it running.

He also capitalized on my past personal transgressions with another trading site (BT) by flipping the scenario that instead of him conning people, that I, was the one conning people. This of course stirred up unnecessary drama and a cover for him on his non-delivery situations. By that point my words meant nothing even if i were to inform other trading communities such as BT or Dakka.

How, and where did he contact you about this whole deal? Dakka?

While the OP has made mistakes (which is something we will all should admit) from personal experience and from viewing his dialogue with others he is someone who is or at the very least tries to be very convincing with his words. He likes to provide a lot of 'assurance' that he can get whatever job done. Be it for wargaming trade or anything web related.

Take my words for whatever its worth.

You should feel honoured that I made an account here just for you, if you are infact who I think you are and that is the owner of RM, then you sir are one of the worst of the lot on all of warhammer forums for scamming. If memory serves me correctly you scammed more then your fair share of people under RM as well as recasting armourcast products and selling them. I would happily provide proof if you so dare? otherwise my suggestion would be to quiet down and slink away to your hole, and may god help anyone who ever trades or deals with you. I will happily let the admins know of the snake in the grass that you are. Also if you would like, I could provide some people who are looking for you or the models you promised your info on dakka and they can deal with you directly. Do you still ban people from RM after you do a shaddy deal with them? You are the VERY reason I will NEVER trade at RM and I suggest no one ever does the same.

Oz
as for doctrin, well I 100% believe the OP.

Whatever your reasons...

Welcome to dakka!

**Ozeo**

LOL!

Thanks!

**brother_zach**

^ Kill 'em with kindness momma always said!

I really don't think this is the place for this sort of rant. To the OP, tough stuff. Suck it up and move on. You seem to have a great talent for painting miniatures, you would honestly be better off setrting up a blog and an Ebay account. Your paining style is very clean and you should nave no problem selling your minis by yourself.

But hey, thanks for the heads up. I think I'll justs tick to the Dakka Swap Shop, Ebay, and game shops.

**Ozeo**

brother_zach wrote:^ Kill 'em with kindness momma always said!

I really don't think this is the place for this sort of rant. To the OP, tough stuff. Suck it up and move on. You seem to have a great talent for painting miniatures, you would honestly be better off setrting up a blog and an Ebay account. Your paining style is very clean and you should nave no problem selling your minis by yourself.

But hey, thanks for the heads up. I think I'll justs tick to the Dakka Swap Shop, Ebay, and game shops.

That sir is a very wise choice!!

**RogueMarket**

This thread isn't even about me. I have 1.2k posts here and if I were a scammer then I would have been removed here by Dakka Dakka administration itself.
Though I dont know WHO you are specifically talking about or too. I am Justin. Not sure if you are or aren't talking about me.

I've also done a number of trades here on dakka with no transaction reports on me.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/245859.page

You are new poster here on Dakka & welcome to the site btw.

I'm just chilling here on Dakka, I don't even sell anymore.
I have other businesses (non-wargaming) that I run (Internet Marketing/Programming) and make a living off of that.
Though throughout my personal course of trading/selling I've sold a great deal of GW in my overall career.
Have I had mistakes in the past? Yeah. I also amended them to my knowledge, and if not then they can contact me.
But this topic isn't even about me.

But if i knew how to recast then I'd be making a ton of products and work mainly on my own products. I've never owned amorcast in my life however. But if you have some links to show me about amorcast recasting I do ask you to share. I'd like to know who is the one actually recasting armorcast as that is wrong.

Like I've said many times before - if I owe someone then they can message me. I'm here.
I have no personal trades outstanding to this date (to my understanding)
If so then whoever I do owe hasn't even contacted me.

EDIT: I just also accessed your account on RM and found that you have:
1. Never deleted any messages in your inbox.
2. You neither had any dealings with any owners of the site about a trade.

Unless you did or attempted to do a trade off-site then that is something that is not reflective on our site.
Unless of course it dealt with an individual who was part of the staff.

In terms of O/T, Ozeo, do you have any contact or relations with Doctrin?
Did you join his WGU site and if so can you get a hold of him?

All I have stated was my own personal experience with Doctrin and observations.
If you 100% believe and agree with the OP (who is someone I do not even know) then we are both in agreement.

The only reason I share my experiences is that it matches the pattern on what the OP has provided.
What killkrazy has said is also correct.

But by all means.
I'm just posting and reading threads on here every now and then.
I don't make a living off of RM, here or anything related to wargaming.

I'm just playing the game, painting models and enjoying the hobby on my spare time.

Justin

**brettz123**

Sorry for the OP. Chalk it up to a learning experience and try to move on.

**Ketara**

Ozeo wrote:

You should feel honoured that I made an account here just for you, if you are infact who I think you are and that is the owner of RM, then you sir are one of the worst of the lot on all of warhammer forums for scamming. If memory serves me correctly you scammed more then your fair share of people under RM as well as recasting armourcast products and selling them. I would happily provide proof if you so dare? otherwise my suggestion would be to quiet down and slink away to your hole, and may god help anyone who ever trades or deals with you. I will happily let the admins know of the snake in the grass that you are. Also if you would like, I could provide some people who are looking for you or the models you promised your info on dakka and they can deal with you directly. Do you still ban people from RM after you do a shaddy deal with them? You are the VERY reason I will NEVER trade at RM and I suggest no one ever does the same.

Oz
as for doctrin, well I 100% believe the OP.

Ozeo, DakkaDakka judges the merits on others based on their actions that occur on Dakka. There are so many people here that have been banned from various other places *coughWarseercough*, I'm not sure we'd have a very large membership base if we just took things on word of mouth.

Regardless, the Swap Moderation Team is fully aware of past 'incidents' that may or may not have taken place with Justin Wu/RogueMarket. However, he has always conducted himself in an exemplary fashion whilst here on Dakka, and as such, is fully under the protection of Rule 1#. A.K.A. Be polite.

If you have had a negative experience with this trader over Dakka, feel free to discuss the situation with us SwapMods. Otherwise, I'm afraid the scenario is the same as Bartertown not accepting Ebay credit or Dakka rep. We deal with things on Dakka based on the merit of users actions accumulated on here.

**Razz**

Thanks everyone for their replies and suggestions, I kindly thank you for your time. The main thing I wanted to achieve by doing this is to raise awareness of this scammer to people as much as I can so that someone else can avoid being robbed. Minis community is not that big yet and I really find this possible. So if you could add a link to where else I could post this or post your experience with him somewhere else yourself it would be a great help warning people everywhere.

Roguemarket
From past patterns of what I've seen the individual develops friendship with others online through talking about the hobby and game initially. Then just more personal matters that makes the conversation feel friendly. This can last for an extended period of time (months) and from then he builds up that friendship trust and utilizes/extends it through months of 'assurance' responses that he will return the favor one day.

It not that much about the money as it is about the principle. He made me believe he where my friend and used that!!!
Again i thank you all for your time and suggestions.

brother_zach
^ Kill 'em with kindness momma always said!