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I know everyone seems to want their own chaos god, but I'd like a bit of feed back on mine

Hlei'xion: chaos god of logic, shadows and silence, empowered by shock (the utter absence of emotion)

Potentially the oldest of the chaos gods, it only recently began sending its servants from the warp and converting mortals, it was created at the dawn of the necrons; although the necrontyr had no psykers, their emotions still stirred the warp, and the collected hatred and jealousy of that race began to coalesce into a great warp entity, a nascent god. On the cusp of the god's birth, the c'tan convinced the necrontyr to undergo biotransference, forming the necrons, however this had even greater repercussions in the warp, a collective racial moment of shock tore through the emerging chaos god, rending it asunder. After this cataclysmic event there was only a small dark fragment left; Hlei'xion, although weak, a fully sentient being, an intelligent black hole in the warp who has spent the last 60 million years growing strong on the shock caused by his brother gods' barbaric followers and is now ready to contest them properly.

I'm thinking of the main lesser daemon (ie the horror/bloodthirster/daemonette/plaguebearer equivalent) being akin to the sin scythes/scissors from the original devil may cry; a floating black shroud with silver gauntlets and helm attached holding some sort of weapon (possibly a cool looking spear)

sounds interesting, I liking that its origins kinda work (unlike some other fan-made gods ) im gonna keep watching this.

Thanks, i was kinda going for workable cos a lot of local gamers are big naysayers (you should have seen their reaction to my undead skaven)

While im posting, i was thinking of making the greater daemon a big bipedal dragon thing (cold blooded=logical? + dragons are cool)
any thoughts/ suggestions for other lesser daemons

also, any ideas for the symbol (if i don't get any good duggestions, i'll just use an infinity symbol)

It's not a bad idea, and it is at least original, but, going back to the God of Chaos' roots in Michael Moorcock's stories, I would expect an embodiment of cold logic not to be a Chaos God at all.

That's sort of the point; it is a sentient emptiness in the warp, the antithesis of its surroundings

I like it. Very original, though Khorne wont be pleased...

I apologize for being a naysayer, and you are of course free and encouraged to develop whatever fluff you would like for your army, but since you asked for critisizm...this is a bad idea. Most players are going to rage over this for a few reasons.

First "he may be the oldest of the warp gods" is about on par to saying "and even the ultramarine's looked on {insert custom chapter} as paragons of what a space marine should be" or "and even Abbadon himself feared lest he bring upon him the wrath of {insert custom character here}". Older, better, more powerful are always bad ideas for custom content.

Then you have some logical inconsistencies. A chaos god who is the result of stirred up resentment and hatred...is the chaos god of logic? How can a creature generated of emotion be a god of logic?

Then you have the fluff reasons. When you start throwing out not just fluff, but the entire theme of armies, people aren't going to like it.

One of the basic themes of the 'crons is their lack of warp ability. They are masters of the physical world and paupers of the mystic. That is the entire reason the Old Ones, Orks, and Eldar can even stand up to them is that they can fill in their technological deficiencies compared to the crons with their warp abilities.

A weakness is necessary to make a faction interesting. In throwing out their weakness you are robbing them of interest.

Throwing out balancing bits of fluff like is also going to rils people. You are essentially saying, "yeah, eldar player, not only am I the top of the heap in tech, but I've got warp powers too, cause I'm awesome and invincible, woo!"

It's just too much favoratism for one race. "yeah, we have ultimate tech, yeah, we have the star gods, yeah, we are immortal, and yeah, we got a warp god too". This is what we refer to as a mary sue faction, and people don't typically appreciate it.

Finally, your just going against the grain of the fluff, and fluff buffs are going to hate it. Warp gods didn't get generated in that time period, the warp was calm, it required powerful psykers to generate warp gods. It took the Eldar, a galaxy spanning civilization of psykers millions of years to create one unintentionally. People who care about the fluff just aren't going to buy it for the Necrons.

Again, free to do what you will, just don't expect people to like it. From a literary point of view it diminishes every other faction uniqueness and power, and detracts from the Necrons most powerful and compelling themes.

This might be a stupid question but this chaos god is cold logic, and recently just started taking followers and all that. Are his motivations purely to compete with the other chaos gods?
Is there any other motivation to it's actions?

@riplikash
oldest is not meant to imply most powerful, quite the opposite, its taken nearly 60 million years for it to accumulate sufficient power to poke its proverbial head above the (also proverbial) parapet, that implies inherently weaker as he cannot contend with the other gods on a level playing field.

secondly you slightly missed the point about its creation, it would have been the god of resentment and hatred if it hadn't been ripped apart by a wave of pure shock. essentially what was being created was a manifestation of the racial psyche, then the entire race changed fundamentally, and lost any possibility of interacting with the warp, leaving the leftover racial psyche as this enormous communal moment of shock. that is, the god is not formed of hatred and resentment, it is formed from shock (which is the absence of emotion) and in the absence of emotion, you are left with pure cold, unfeeling logic. perhaps shard was the wrong term in my first post, I just couldn't think of a better one.

I do recognise that using the necrons is not the best choice (I am in fact, first and foremost, a necron player), it was just a convenient piece of fluff to co-opt and the time-scale made sense, because shock is much less prevalent than anger/hope/despair/desire if you can please give me a better piece of fluff at a similar sort of time frame (perhaps some old ones [the ultimate psykers] being betrayed or something) I would be most grateful. I came up with the idea of the god first and then stole a bit of fluff to fit. How did the other 3 come about, maybe i can tweak the basic theme of them to fit.

@DeathRex
It has only recently gathered enough power to be safe to attract the attentions of its 'brother' gods and its motivations are mainly to compete with his brother gods, not just for its own sake, but with the intention of slowly calming the warp (its ideal state from Hlei'xion's point of view) notice it has 3 fields of interest; logic, darkness and silence, all of them calm states.

Hey this good looks pretty cool, at least its not a "lolomg god of evil" thingy

Isn't Tzeentch plotting and somewhat logical thinking?

.....And the fact Logic is a tool and barrier to Chaos....

And the Necron/Old one thing makes little sense, being that only the Enslavers are known to have been created by then and the Chaos Gods taking till Humanities middle ages to awaken......

This really isn't going to work.

@blood reaper
thank you for your oh so useful input

No, tzeentch is not in any way god of logical thinking; he is god of circuitous and illogical thiking
If you read my previous posts properly, you would see that a) while it was sentient at the time of the necron/old one conflict, it hadn't got any real power, so could not make itself known
and b) the whole point is that is a chunk of logic in the middle of chaos, games workshop has got an official lesser god of atheism (Necoho), so why can't I have logical chaos

Um.....because Chaos is anti-logic....and no other Chaos god had accutally begun to form at that time.

blood reaper wrote:Isn't Tzeentch plotting and somewhat logical thinking?

.....And the fact Logic is a tool and barrier to Chaos....

And the Necron/Old one thing makes little sense, being that only the Enslavers are known to have been created by then and the Chaos Gods taking till Humanities middle ages to awaken......

This really isn't going to work.

Tzeentch is not really logic, ploting yes, but it could be pretty ilogicall. Tzeench is about plotting and magic and change.

and Necoho is a chaos god (ie relies on worshippers) against the whole concept of worshipping, the 40k universe is full of paradoxes, why are you so set against mine

and it never says that no other chaos god has begun to form, just that none of them were near critical mass yet

I would like to ammend my request for input to 'request for useful and constructive input', if you're just going to tell me a flat out no, there's no way this could work then you're obviously wasting your time, and have not understood that in the realm of chaos anything can happen and time has no meaning, despite them not being created until a specific point in time, the fluff quite clearly states that the chaos gods have in fact existed before their own creation, quote: That is how events are viewed from the chronology of the real universe; in the Warp, things are different. The Realm of Chaos has no true time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause then effect. In essence, Slaanesh has always existed in the Warp, and yet has never existed.

Tzeentch is the god of Hope...
Nurgle the god of Despair.
Khorne is the god of Rage.
Slannesh is the god of Excess.

I don't really like your explaination to how he/she came about or what he/she did afterwards but I will say it is better than most.

Necoho doesn't exist (according to cannon).
Neither does Malal.

That has nothing to do with the fact it doesn't make sense how it came to be, also, would this not just be a powerful entity not a small god?

Also, the four main Chaos Gods cover all emotion, you just have to look at it from several aspects.

Mordenkenain wrote:That's sort of the point; it is a sentient emptiness in the warp, the antithesis of its surroundings

I take it the Michael Moorcock reference went over your head.

My point was that the Gods of Chaos presented in Warhammer (and also in Moorcock's Eternal Champion stories, whence GW borrowed them) embody raw, emotive states; the beings which personified refined, abstracts such as reason and logic would be Gods of Law, not Chaos.

Going to echo what everyone else has been saying.

A chaos god of logic is in and of itself contradictory and non-sensical. Furthermore, as others have pointed out, the Necrons have no warp abilities and would not spawn an entire god out of their transformation. It took the overwhelming majority of the Eldar race - the most warp attuned race in the galaxy - to finally give birth to a god that had been slowly coalescing for ages.

To me, creating a chaos god is the equivalent of creating a new legion (or filling in one of the missing legions). I just don't think it should be done.

Blacksails wrote:Going to echo what everyone else has been saying.

A chaos god of logic is in and of itself contradictory and non-sensical. Furthermore, as others have pointed out, the Necrons have no warp abilities and would not spawn an entire god out of their transformation. It took the overwhelming majority of the Eldar race - the most warp attuned race in the galaxy - to finally give birth to a god that had been slowly coalescing for ages.

To me, creating a chaos god is the equivalent of creating a new legion (or filling in one of the missing legions). I just don't think it should be done.

I knew i forgot to mention something...

can one of the mods please close this thread, I was hoping for some useful advice, which I'm obviously not going to get, so there is no point continuing the thread

English Assassin wrote:

Mordenkenain wrote:That's sort of the point; it is a sentient emptiness in the warp, the antithesis of its surroundings

I take it the Michael Moorcock reference went over your head.

My point was that the Gods of Chaos presented in Warhammer (and also in Moorcock's Eternal Champion stories, whence GW borrowed them) embody raw, emotive states; the beings which personified refined, abstracts such as reason and logic would be Gods of Law, not Chaos.

This brings an interesting thought to mind, let's just accept the fluff as is for a moment and say this small weak little thing just emerging into creation from the resentment and jealousy and what have you and did suffer such a shock. Something of a stillborn god floating threw the warp permanently devoid of any emotion falling upon it's only attribute logic. It watching and absorbing all the information it could in various ways before an obscene amount of years later supposedly after the emergences of it's 'younger' sibling (I don't think such definitions of time should matter to them) manages to feed off the trauma they cause and slowly gain footing.

What if this god which was being birth by chaos when shut off became a god of law? I know it sounds odd and I'm not to good at explaining myself but the idea is its more a state of limbo, not one but notbthe other.

Plus if it's cold logic wouldn't it's actions make it the god of cruelty ? Think about it the most emotionless and cold people are the most cruel. I only say this simply due to the fact every god has an emotion or attribute in which they attract/share with there followers and if this is a chaos god I believe this aspect of it's nature should be flushed out.. If he/ she was a cruelty causing horrific acts to cause the same shock in people to feed itself what it needs to thrive and grow in strength.

Sorry if this seems like nonsense I haven't slept much lol

Yes it would be a very cruel god, however, it would not view its actions or motivation as cruelty, they would be the logical choice for it to take. to view something as cruel implies that you can see another better way of doing it.

so in a roundabout way, the answer is both yes and no. yes, the actions of its followers would be inherently cruel, but no, it would not have the purview of cruelty

It wouldn't really be that cruel. Just... efficient.

Mordenkenain wrote:can one of the mods please close this thread, I was hoping for some useful advice, which I'm obviously not going to get, so there is no point continuing the thread

See, comments like this really bug me. Why did you post this then? Everything said in this thread has been clearly explained, and the flaws in the writing pointed out. If you were expecting a dozen comments all saying "Looks good", "That's nice", or "Cool", then don't bother posting it.

Honestly, if I were in your shoes, and I received all this feedback, I'd be thanking everyone for their comments. Nothing said in this thread was mean-spirited or even intended as such. Critique and feedback, however negative it may be, should always be taken positively.

I'm currently working on a DIY chapter over at Bolter and Chainsword, and the feedback I've gotten there has been blunt, honest, and to the point. Was it nice? Not really, but its infinitely better than getting comments stating "It was nice".

Take what was said here, go back to the drawing board, read up on all the fluff everywhere, then have a second go. Critique is good, and I personally feel most people are too scared to tell the honest truth. When you do get someone who tells it like it is, thank them, and improve the piece.

Anyways, that's my bit.

Mordenkenain wrote:can one of the mods please close this thread, I was hoping for some useful advice, which I'm obviously not going to get, so there is no point continuing the thread

What?

You obviously can't accept the fact what you've written is flawed and people aren't going to say "That's good all the time", if you don't want criticism leave Dakka.

I have no issue with criticism, provided it adds something useful

what riplikash and DeathRex have posted is usable criticism

This really isn't going to work.

is not, it is simply being irritating

@blacksails
I did not want a load of 'thats great' replies because its wasting my time, however, simply telling me why something doesn't work isn't helpful, perhaps people could try (now, here's a novel idea) suggesting a way that does work to replace the aforementioned screwup

Mordenkenain wrote:I have no issue with criticism, provided it adds something useful

what riplikash and DeathRex have posted is usable criticism

This really isn't going to work.

is not, it is simply being irritating

@blacksails
I did not want a load of 'thats great' replies because its wasting my time, however, simply telling me why something doesn't work isn't helpful, perhaps people could try (now, here's a novel idea) suggesting a way that does work to replace the aforementioned screwup

In fairness i did try to think of a way to correct it but the whole idea is fairly flawed...
Much like the idea of Choas GK or Lost Legions...
You could probably write a fairly well written Chaos god (Maybe one killed off by the current 4?) but the idea of the Necrontyr creating it is fairly unfeasible...

DeathRex wrote:

English Assassin wrote:

Mordenkenain wrote:That's sort of the point; it is a sentient emptiness in the warp, the antithesis of its surroundings

I take it the Michael Moorcock reference went over your head.

My point was that the Gods of Chaos presented in Warhammer (and also in Moorcock's Eternal Champion stories, whence GW borrowed them) embody raw, emotive states; the beings which personified refined, abstracts such as reason and logic would be Gods of Law, not Chaos.

This brings an interesting thought to mind, let's just accept the fluff as is for a moment and say this small weak little thing just emerging into creation from the resentment and jealousy and what have you and did suffer such a shock. Something of a stillborn god floating threw the warp permanently devoid of any emotion falling upon it's only attribute logic. It watching and absorbing all the information it could in various ways before an obscene amount of years later supposedly after the emergences of it's 'younger' sibling (I don't think such definitions of time should matter to them) manages to feed off the trauma they cause and slowly gain footing.

What if this god which was being birth by chaos when shut off became a god of law? I know it sounds odd and I'm not to good at explaining myself but the idea is its more a state of limbo, not one but notbthe other.

That makes perfectly good sense of itself, and fits approximately within the established fluff. The problem with the idea as a whole lies in the number of twists and turns necessary to reach that point.

DeathRex wrote:Plus if it's cold logic wouldn't it's actions make it the god of cruelty ? Think about it the most emotionless and cold people are the most cruel. I only say this simply due to the fact every god has an emotion or attribute in which they attract/share with there followers and if this is a chaos god I believe this aspect of it's nature should be flushed out.. If he/ she was a cruelty causing horrific acts to cause the same shock in people to feed itself what it needs to thrive and grow in strength.

I would take issue philosophically with that first assertion: absolute logic is morally neutral, having no more inclination to cruelty or kindness than its opposite, complete randomness. However (and which might, I think, make a better direction for Hlei'xion) arbitrary cruelty, or, to reduce it to a more basic concept, injustice, would indeed suit a God of Chaos perfectly. The problem which arises then, of course is that there are already in the setting beings which embody both the injustice of chance (Tzeentch) and the human urge to rail against it (Nurgle).

yeah, it was just convenient to steal that chunk of fluff, anything non-necrontyr would be helpful though. I would prefer to have something that didn't meddle with existing fluff like the necrontyr