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Hi guys. I'd like help with my 1500 point list as I have a lot of trouble against a bunch of armies at my local store.

Emperor's Champion, AACNMTO 140
With 6 Assault terminators, 4LC/2TH with furious charge 258
In a Land Raider Crusader 265

Crusader squad 7/3 with power fist and meltagun 167
in a rhino

Crusader squad 7/3 with power fist and meltagun 167
in a rhino

Crusader squad 7/3 with power fist and meltagun 167
in a rhino

Crusader squad 5/0 with a lascannon 95
in a razorback with TL-lascannon

This takes me to 1499, I usually have my LRC deployed either in the middle as close to my opponent as possible but behind some sort of cover for those times when i feel it's vulnerable, it charges up, opens transports and my terms+EC take care of what's inside, this unit's all well and good.

I usually have 1 unit sit on my objective using the rhino as cover, sometimes have 2 units on one objective using the rhinos as a wall to protect my objective while the LRC and the other unit causes havoc, the lazorback sits somewhere juicy taking pot shots while the unit with the lascannon is deployed separately so it's able to use the lascannon on the first turn.

I've fought everything except Orks so far and have lost quite, drawing a few and only winning a handful.
I've thought about swapping the razorback+unit for something in the heavy support department, mostly a predator. clearing up points to give my rhinos smoke launchers and my LRC blessed hull. Any and all help is appreciated, thanks.


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A quick idea for an alternate list would be

EC, AAC
6 CC Terms w/ FC
LRC

7/3 crusader squad, PF/melta
rhino

7/3 crusader squad, PF/melta
rhino

3 Predator destructors with lascannon sponsons

however this lacks troop choices.

Nobody? :( I would really like some help, I've heard that a shooty list is more competitive but more boring, is there some sort of middle line so it's fun and competitive?

It is to my knowledge that a Champion can not lead a command squad. So right there your going to need to change it up. Also edit it to take out the point values. Also you may want to cut out one of the squads, preferably one of the 7/3 squads and throw in a Predator, Vindicator, or maybe even a Dreadnought, you might also want to free up some points for a Marshal, those dudes can be game changers if you equip them right. also, unless your dead set on those 7/3 squads you might want to make those Rhinos into Razorbacks, that way you can get an actual punch with your transports

I would probably drop some neophytes to get a Plasma Gun to go with that Lascannon. Don't upgrade to a razorback as they are insanely expensive for us. 90 points for a lazerback? Pass. The biggest issue is that you are mixing shooting and assault with your BT. Do one or the other not both. If you want to assault fine then drop the last squad for a PotMS vindicator. If you want to do shooty then you are pretty far off since all the others would need to look like the Lascannon squad with a PG. The assault termis would then need to be shooty termis.

With that said shooty BT are actually more competative.

@Notod: That isn't a command squad since we can't take assault terminator squads. It's a Termi Assault squad he attached the EC to.

Akroma06 you're right, the EC isn't with a command squad it's just attached to the terminators which are elites

I've read both comments and agree that i won't to go more close combat, being less competitive I want to have more fun than wins but I do want to win sometimes, so I'll be getting a vindicator as soon as possible. thank you,

Akro quit stealing my saying!

Dont take Lazor backs they are a waste of points IMHO. if you want something reli competitive grabs a few Landspeeder Typhoons i run 3 of em in a 1500 point list. great anti horde and decent anti tank.

That being said your list seems a lil bland to me. I know exactly ur game strat before we even start the game. Crusader comes up unloads termies while ur Rhinos try and hold a few objectives and one or two go up the the LRC to help the termies. am i right? oh and ur lazor back might shoot something. you dont reli have any anti horde or anti mech from far away other than one Lazor back whch lets b honnest probli will b stunned locked or blown up turn 2.

My Assualt Based 1500 pt list
Emperor's champion – AaCnMtO 140
Dreadnought, Venerable, EA 130
Dreadnought, EA 110
Dreadnought, EA 110
TR – Initiates x 7, PF, Meltagun, Rhino 187
TR – Initiates x 8, PF, Meltagun, Rhino 203
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launchers 70
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launchers 70
Land Speeder, Typhoon Missile Launchers 70
Predator Destructors, Lascannon Sponson 125
Predator Destructors, Lascannon Sponson 125
Vindicator, PotMS, EA 160

Here you have several different threats from Landspeeder to dreads to my heavy support and its still assault based (AaCnMtO)

Shooty based 1500pt List
Emperor's champion - AtWKtW 110
Dreadnought, LC, EA, Ven, TH 160
Dreadnought, LC, EA 130
Dreadnought, LC, EA 130
Crusader Squad x 5 Lascannon 95
Crusader Squad x 5 Lascannon 95
Crusader Squad x 5 Missle Launcher 90
Land Speeder Typhoon Missile Launchers 70
Land Speeder Typhoon Missile Launchers 70
Land Speeder Typhoon Missile Launchers 70
Vindicator, PotMS, EA 160
Vindicator, PotMS, EA 160
Vindicator, PotMS, EA 160

here you can see the "Main threat" the Vindicators that can easly destroy any 1500 pt list but what ur real bread makers are ur landspeeders they are whats gonna help you win the game, pop them in and out of cover get angles on enemies all different sort of things and you use ur dreads (in both lists) to give ur vindicators cover saves while still moving up the field (if need b)


Now the list i showed arent my main army lists but they both have an extreme win to loss ratio and in fact the first one has won me 3 tournaments so far.

Nettik189 wrote:Akro quit stealing my saying!

What lazerbacks? I've heard it before...and with BT it's really good advice. Advice I got from you but still good advice that is merely being spread to others!

Akroma06 wrote: 90 points for a lazerback? Pass.

This is half the story. It depends on your needs but you clearly have five options:
a) loose troops, not as crazy as it sounds but the protection from a tank is probably worth it.
b) Drop pod, not as crazy as it sounds but a specialist method
c) Land raider, Makes sense if you want them assaulty though costs a tonne.
leaving us with
d) rhino for 50 pts, ouch that is expensive but it is reasonable to take on.
e)laserback for +40, well a TL lascannon is nice addition, especially if you taking CMLs, typhoons and vindis to support. In terms of extra 40 points it would be churlish to point out this is the same price all marines pay to upgrade a rhino. Not saying this will always the best option but neither would I say it so terrible value for money given the points you may already be prepared to invest in a rhino.

Thanks for the replies guys.
Nettik189 after looking at both of your lists i like the look of them both, favouring the first though, I do think my army will benefit from land speeder typhoons, so i'll be getting 3 of those as soon as possible.

Akro: I know i think we both preach it to everyone.

Kiwikle: if you can get 4 make 2 squads of 2.

Just a side note on nettik's first list you can also run assault terminators w/ FC.

Despite the lazerback being 90 points the other downside is that you don't get to shoot out of it with your LC or a PG. You also can only fit 6 guys inside for a CC army. Where as you can fire out and you can run 10 guys in a rhino.

Akro: Yea you can run 8 or so termies but i found the dreads are more of a threat bc they can block LOS for ur vindicator, or preditors. Also what i love to do and it annoys people grab 9 termies all SS/TH and walk em up the field they are so hard to kill.

In respects to ur assault squad sizes i found 8 is the best number for saving points.

Well I like the Templar horde. Full crusader squads and AACNMTO. Add some FC somewhere and run down the board yelling WAGGH like your an ork!

to bad ur neophyates dont get AAC so you are reli just wasting points

True but half the squad is, I view them as cannonfodder for the true space marines.

TBH i can spend those waste 100 points on 2 normal land speeders and get more average kills and b more of a threat, i dont like my troops being targeted by the enemy so i dont charge them in if i dont have to. ur either giving up 2 free kp or a scoring unit. to me ill keep em at arms reach away so if need to i can throw them into assault(but rarely do)

replace one of your crusader squad with two skimmers - perhaps with Heavy bolters and assault cannons - will give you fast heavy support with decent ranged guns. also can contest objectives with a 24" turbo boost move on the last turn (if they havnt been taken out). I would use them as individual FA slots so they can work independantly and not be destroyed by immobalised result

I would also use your transports for transorting and NOT hiding behind. leave two TR for claiming objectives without thier transposts, giving you another 80 pts or so to play with. This can now be another skimmer with a multimelta and heavy flamer - a good all round shoot tanks or burn troops (with no cover saves).

ALSO - In my list i do not have Assault termies... i have a sqad of 6 normal termies with 2 assault cannons. hey can deply from the lrc and shoot then assault. you shoudl be able to erradicate a squad or two of enemies in a single (multiple/dual) assault if you line it up well.

GL!!

Loochie: Assualt cannons are nice but they cant reali handle horde armies and mech like Typhoons can. And you run them in squads because you put one out in plan sight and one behind cover using the 4 inch coherency so you get a cover save on them.

BT need transports unless ur going pure 5 Iniatates w/ LC,ML or PC when you dont have cover you can easily kill them. U keep the transports for mobility and strategy, you can easily disembark ur guys tank shock with ur rhino to push some one off and objective or away from an objective while ur troops take it.

For Landspeeder tornado they are expensive for BT (5 pts more exp than typhoon) for a gun with less range and one thats a template thats reli only effective turn 2 and you have to b close to them to use it. IDK about other people but i run melta if ur close enough to use ur flamer im close enough to auto glance you. your speeders you want to keep far away unles they have no weapons then even still you wanna save em for last turn turbo boosting.

In your list do you run AAC or KtW? also i know its sorta of a propular play style but why assault cannons? you realize if you move up the field unload and shoot with 2 assault cannons and 4 storm bolters ur probli gonna kill the closest models to you and you wont b able to assault. Unless you are facing gaurd that stacks you will probli at best case get in assault with one unit where all your guys hit last. you will probli lose one or two models give who you assault. Even tau have been know to take out termies in assault, My point is if you are gonna run AAC run assault terminators all SS/TH they dont need a LRC or LR they will get shoot at and assault and will probli still live threw the game. I run 17 in a 2.5k tourny list and on avearge i lose 7 total and so far this year i am undefeated.

Ok after reading everyone's comments I've come up with the following list.

EC AAC
9 Assault terminatos with furious charge 5 TH/SS, 4LC
Walking

8/2 crusader squad with powerfist and meltagun
in a rhino with smoke launchers

8/2 crusader squad with powerfist and meltagun
in a rhino with smoke launchers

8/2 crusader squad with powerfist and meltagun
in a rhino with smoke launchers

2 Land speeder typhoons (heavy bolter and typhoon missile launchers)

Vindicator with power of the machine spirit and smoke launchers

Having tried out this army I can definitely say that I'm going to get more Land speeders as they worked very well, The terminators walking with the EC works very well albeit slow, and so far my vindicator has been getting wrecked from very lucky shots and bad cover saves =[

Hopefully next week I'll get 2 more land speeders, dropping a few terminators and swapping 1 initiate for a neophyte in each crusader squad.

My current list after playing with the above one quite a lot is.

Emperor's Champion AAC
9 Assault Terminators with Furious charge, 5 TH/SS 4 LC
Walking

8/2 Crusader Squad with powerfist and meltagun
in a Rhino with smoke launchers

8/2 Crusader Squad with powerfist and meltagun
in a Rhino with smoke launchers

3 Land speeder typhoons (heavy bolter and typhoon missile launchers) running them in 3 separate units

2 Vindicators with power of the machine spirit and smoke launchers

thats a pretty decent list i just dislike the neopyhates. and might i suggest making all ur terminators ss/th drop FC and that gives you 67 free points alomst enough for another Landspeeder

Edited for Dislike, i reii hate them!!!!

I have 5 free points anyways so if i did do that i could get another land speeder, so i'll probably do that

if you do make a squad of 2 and 2 squads of 1 lanspeeder and be carefull where you put em too.

I've decided that i'm not much more for my terminators, in my last 4 games they've failed to get into combat or only killed 100-200 points so i'm swapping them out for something.
I tried a Dreadnought and he did great so I'm thinking something along those lines.

This is what i'm thinking of taking now

EC AAC

8/1 Crusader squad, melta and powerfist
Rhino with smoke launchers

9/1 Crusader squad, melta and powerfist
Rhino with smoke launchers

Venerable dreadnought with extra armour
Dreadnought with extra armour

3 Vinidicators with PotmS

3 Land speeder typhoons

Taking me to a total of 1468,
Should I be taking offensive grenades? if not I could replace the neophytes for initiates taking meto 1500 on the dot

Well the frags are pretty much needed if you charge into cover having to left a crusader in the movement phase. Otherwise you will strike last which means you will probably have more guys dead when it comes to your turn to swing.

Had two really good games tonight using the following list

Emperor's champion with AACNMTO
9/0 Crusader squad, meltagun and powerfist(6 pistols/CCW, 1 bolter) 9 frag grenades
in a rhino with smoke launcher

9/0 Crusader squad, meltagun and powerfist(6 pistols/CCW, 1 bolter) 9 frag grenades
in a rhino with smoke launcher

1 Venerable Dreadnought with extra armour
1 Dreadnought with extra armour

3 Vindicators with power of the machine spirit

2 Land speeder typhoons

I played firstly against a guard/marine army that I think was Traitor Legions from the badab war book, played 5 turns and lost the crusader squad which my emperor's champion was in after they ditched their rhino, however the rhino survived the game, so only 1 kill point lost.

The second game i played was against Nids, he had a prime, tyrant, 2 tervigons, carnifex and 30 CC gaunts, 2 units of 10 shooty gaunts, but we were cut short and I won losing no kill points and I had 4


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The only thing I'm thinking of doing is adding another dreadnought cos they've lasted forever against everything and still dish out the pain.

Decided on a third Dreadnought,

Emperor's Champion with accept any challenge no matter the odds.

Crusader squad with 6 initiates, 2 neophytes, powerfist and meltagun with frags in a rhino with smoke launchers

Crusader squad with 6 initiates, 2 neophytes, powerfist and meltagun with frags in a rhino with smoke launchers

Venerable dreadnought with extra armour

2 Dreadnoughts with extra armour

2 Land speeder typhoons

3 Vindicators with power of the machine spirit

Champion hitches a ride with one of the crusader squad, with the dreadnoughts provide cover for the vindicators, the crusader squad without the champion drops out and uses the rhino as a sort of road block, hopefully pushing my opponent to where I want them, the champion and his squad ditch the rhino a bit later in favour of assaulting but still causing a road block with the rhino.

I've used this list against a smurf army led by kantor, dark eldar, and necrons, I didn't faceroll any of them but i did win and I had fun.

Damn it! How dare you beat Dark Eldar! Ha Ha, you're list looks good but against a durable army you might struggle in objective games.

Thanks for the comments in the past, I finally decided on a list which is this...

Emperor's Champion with accept any challenge no matter the odds.
Crusader squad with 5 initiates, powerfist and meltagun with frags in a rhino with smoke launchers
Crusader squad with 5 initiates, powerfist and meltagun with frags in a rhino with smoke launchers
Venerable dreadnought with extra armour
2 Dreadnoughts with extra armour
3 Land speeder typhoons
3 Vindicators with power of the machine spirit

This list has served me well, mostly in kill points but i've still been able to win objective matches easily aswell by keeping my troops safe using the dreadnoughts/vindicators as cover/walls, charging 3 vindicators in a line is pretty intimidating i've been told

My idea for a 2000 list would be dropping extra armour for the ven/dreadnoughts and smoke launchers from the rhinos
and adding a master of sanctity for some extra close combatyness, and 6 landspeeder typhoons,

My current list with 3 typhoons have them working really well, so my thoughts were how could 6 more not work!

So here's my 2000 list

Emperor's Champion with accept any challenge no matter the odds.
Master of Sanctity
Crusader squad with 5 initiates, powerfist and meltagun with frags in a rhino
Crusader squad with 5 initiates, powerfist and meltagun with frags in a rhino
Venerable dreadnought
2 Dreadnoughts
3 Land speeder typhoons
3 Land speeder typhoons
3 Land speeder typhoons
3 Vindicators with power of the machine spirit

Ideas and comments appreciated