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Hello dakka dakka, recently, I had posted a rough draft of this chapter, mostly to see if it was "okay," especialy considering the founding, mostly it was, so i worked a little more on it, and here it is!

The Dark Crusaders
Chapter: Dark Crusaders
Founding Chapter: Word Bearers
Founding: 2nd Founding
Chapter Master: High Apostle Romulos
Homeworld: (Fleet Based Chapter) Aundair
Fortress-Monastery: Anduar
Colors: Black and White
Specialty: Chaplains, Librarians, Stormravens, Swords, melee, fighting Chaos
Strength: Melee combat, physic power, faith
Battle cry: For the God-Emperor! For vengeance! We are the heralds of the Imperium!
Follows most of the codex astartes with some deviations, namely 12 battle companies though no support companies

[b]Founding:
Originally, the Word Bearers were the first and foremost in love and respect for an Emperor, they called him a god. And because of this, even after the legion fell to chaos, some few marines of the legion still stayed true.

After seeing through the powers of chaos and having tensions rise for his faith, High Chaplain Rengar and many other marines, around 500 strong, that he personally found loyal emperor, attempted a daring escape, they stole a ship, and left the legion.

Once the battles of the Heresy finally started, Rengar and his men were there in the fight. Their disgust and hatred of those who would turn on the Emperor glowed strong.

After the heresy ended, with the Chaos Legions banished to the warp, the loyalist Word Bearers under Rengar faced a great shame. Their Emperor, their god, had been killed, but not only that; it was their legion that helped this happen.

At the time of the 2nd founding, the Loyalist Word Bearers found this to be their time for a new beginning.Seeing their faith greatly shown in the Black Templars, they temporarily joined them, but eventuallly, at the time of the 3rd founding, the loyalists would need to forge their own legend, they repainted their grey armor black, and renamed themselves, the Dark Crusaders. Dark for the crimes of their Legion, and Crusaders for their unending crusade of vengeance.
Beliefs

The Dark Crusaders are chapter extremely loyal to the emperor, the faith their geneseed holds brings them to accomplish great deeds on the battlefield, especially against the emperor’s most hated enemy, chaos. They fight for their love of the emperor, and as a way to prove them-selves even though the crimes of their legion.
Chaplains, seen as those with the greatest amount of faith, are greatly respected and admired, and it is not uncommon, as it is now, for the chapter master to be one of the chaplain ranks.

Demeanor
The Dark Crusaders feel a great hatred towards their enemies, their loyalty to the emperor is strong and because of this, they despise retreat.
Army Traits
High amount of melee weapons, usually finding special melee weapons in squads in the place or heavy or special weapons.
Even though they prefer melee combat, the amount of assault marines is average compared to other chapters.
Squad leaders are usually found in three forms, the “classic” sergeant, one chosen in the chaplain ranks, or one chosen in the librarian ranks
While many types of heavy tanks are not common in the army, such as predators and whirlwinds Land Raiders and Stormravens are.
Librarian Dreadnoughts and even Chaplain Dreadnoughts take form in the army.

Chapter organization.
The chapter is 1300 marine strong, seeing as they are the only chapter with Word Bearer geneseed.
The marines are divided into 12 crusades each with 100 marines, akin to companies of other chapters
The final, 13th crusade is much alike to the first company of other chapters holding the marines who have most proven their faith on the battle field.
Captains of crusades may have served many battles as a chaplain, or even as a librarian.
Special squads are in the army, whose members could be considered “sub chaplains”

Anyway, that is really it for now, I would appreciate any advice anyone could give, especially a way to make them more “Word Bearer like” and also, im having trouble thinking about their relationships with the inquisition, as well as other chapters… Should those guys know the Dark Crusaders origin? etc

Heyy, not bad stuff you have there,
im new to dakkadakka, but i have been an active in the hobby foy years,
anyway, i dont have any real help to give you, but good work!
I'd like to see more about your chapter in the future.

The organization and thought process on the Dark Crusaders is much tighter.

As for their relation to the Inquisition and other chapters-

Toss out the question in 40k Background forums.

"How would modern space marine chapters view a space marine chapter of loyalist Word Bearers?"

Explain that these are direct descendants of the legion but they stayed true to the Emperor and fought against their brethren during the Horus Heresy.

Depending on what others think, if the general consensus is that such a chapter is scorned, then explain that as a prerequisite to their continued existence, the Inquisition forces the chapter leaders to never disclose their chapter origins. In turn, they mask where their gene-seed is derived from.

I think the question on how the imperium would act to learn a loyalist chapter has a traitor chapter as its founding chapter, though in regard to the blood ravens. The most common answer I've is that it would be a mixed reaction, and after purging through the chapter's ranks for any heretics (porbably over half of the chapter), they would be allowed to continue being a part of the loyalists, before having their chapter history remade.
On the background, it is really great. One thign though, I would make the chapter third founding or fourth and say they joined another chapter for a short while (such as black templars), as the second founding is really well known.

I don't think the chapter should flag that they originally is from the Word Bearers. Heck they would likely mask it even from the prying eyes of the Inquisition and officially say they have unknown origins. Also I think any Inquisitor discovering the origins of the chapter likely would have his life abruptly snuffed out as that secret is something they want hidden.

Also they would likely be backed up by their own Storm-Troopers much like the Black Templars where the Templars seem to only do the glory-fighting, while their own Storm-Troopers are doing the grab and hold. And that's tactics not too foreign for the Word Bearers as well.

The most difficult part of this is how to have their faith. Empy pretty much humiliated Lorgar when he forced Lorgar to kneel before him, demanded that he stopped worshiping him and let the Ultramarines tear down the finest cathedral they had made. So they likely doesn't get too well along with them.

Beaviz81 wrote:
Empy pretty much humiliated Lorgar when he forced Lorgar to kneel before him, demanded that he stopped worshiping him and let the Ultramarines tear down the finest cathedral they had made. So they likely doesn't get too well along with them.

Remember, because these guys didn't go to chaos, they don't have eternal life so they most likely wouldn't even remmeber the entire thing 10000 years ago.

Also, some of the legion may have followed the emperor's orders directly and only followed what they were ordered from the emperor, instead of Lorgar.

They would likely have it written down in their legends (if they doesn't have a Dreadnaught old enough to remember it). Then again I was merely speculating, and the chapter doesn't adhere closely to the Codex Astartes. Then again some within the legion might have tipped off Empy about what they saw as unsavory practices, and in turn set the events in motion.

Anyway I don't think the chapter would be to keen about cooperating with any Space Marine chapters due to their secret, and would like the Black Templars rely on their human troopers to do most of the work while the really hard objectives are attained by the Space Marines.

Yah, I'll make the Word Bearer origin a secret, maybe even the inquisition do not know about it.

BaneGuard wrote:
On the background, it is really great. One thign though, I would make the chapter third founding or fourth and say they joined another chapter for a short while (such as black templars), as the second founding is really well known.

Awesome idea! i will be sure to write that in

The reason I say second founding is so well known is that is the second most famous (after the 1st founding) and the fact that the only succesors not mentioned in the space marine codex are ultramarines ones (which the word bearers hate, so ultramarines accepting word bearers would make no sense).
However, as far as I know, the third founding had more groups of marines created then the first two foundings and I don't think the list of 3rd founding chapters are mentioned anywhere.

Awesome, I changed it so they were in the 3rd founding

Now they have closer ties to the black templars, I find them more awesome.
Also, foudning needs to be changed at the top in the summary bit.

Why did they join another chapter? And more importantly, how the hell did that chapter allow Space Marines from a traitor legion make up their own chapter? Sounds to me like something really hard to explain.

Beaviz81 wrote:Why did they join another chapter? And more importantly, how the hell did that chapter allow Space Marines from a traitor legion make up their own chapter? Sounds to me like something really hard to explain.

Perhaps dorn and sigisnhnd were impressed by the loyalty and faith of this chapter, and knowing they would be a target in the imperium, let them join temporarily, the rest of the chapter did not know

I'm skeptical about it. It's a better idea that only Empy and the High Lords know about the secret of the chapter. Though Black Templars can have been with them originally to supervise the chapter of an original traitor legion, which can make the chapter at least partial to the Black Templars and explain a few things regarding the combat-doctrines, though the cover-up idea ain't half-bad.

Beaviz81 wrote:I'm skeptical about it. It's a better idea that only Empy and the High Lords know about the secret of the chapter. Though Black Templars can have been with them originally to supervise the chapter of an original traitor legion, which can make the chapter at least partial to the Black Templars and explain a few things regarding the combat-doctrines, though the cover-up idea ain't half-bad.

Yah,its kinda weird, im definitly going to have something where the Dark Crusaders worked with the Black Templars, seeing as the loyalty of the Word Bearer Geneseed could go well with the BT faith... but im not sure on how to incorporate that...

Also the Black Templars hate psykers, and you have them involved. Though that early the Black Templars likely weren't so fanatical about the psykers, and I would assume they would ally with Libarians of the Imperial Fist chapter if needed as that seems to be logical.

The problem with this start is the amount of story you have to put out, from breaking with Lorgar to ten thousand years into the future as you must like think up mucho, mucho battles and campaigns.

Beaviz81 wrote:Also the Black Templars hate psykers, and you have them involved. Though that early the Black Templars likely weren't so fanatical about the psykers, and I would assume they would ally with Libarians of the Imperial Fist chapter if needed as that seems to be logical.

The problem with this start is the amount of story you have to put out, from breaking with Lorgar to ten thousand years into the future as you must like think up mucho, mucho battles and campaigns.

Yahh, but im still going to keep the pskers

And about the story parts,im up for the challenge!

I was merely stating the problems, for me, you could meld them, as the Imperial Fist-meddling would keep them in line.

That will take weeks to think out.

I also have a hash-dash-gathered Space Marine chapter. Basically it's Imperial Fists/Black Templar grunts with Dark Angel and Space Wolves officers. They were gathered by two Inquisitors of Ordo Malleus and Ordo Xenos, and appointed a commissar-couple as the interim chapter masters as the Ordo Xeno Inquisitor couldn't justify his many Space Marines in his Deathwatch. Later all the three Chapter Masters of the Fists, Wolves and Angels approved the new chapter, who really doesn't adhere to the Codex Astartes as they doesn't even have Apothecaries but Sister Hospitalliers instead, at first their two chapter masters are a commissar-couple, then a Grey Knight Brother-Captain. The commissars even went to holy Terra to get the approval which were granted, and they were told to never set foot on Terra again.

Then again most people have butchered it mercilessly, so it ain't a popular story.

Just because the black templars hate psykers, it doesn't mean they wouldn't allow the dark crusaders in. In fact, the space wolves and silver skulls are really close allies, yet the space wolves hate librarians and the silver skulls more important position is that of a librarian.

Also, marines chapters that are of low strength are often merged with other chapters, such as the astral knights after the majority of their chapter was wiped out. Also considering that the black templars would have been about 3000 strong, so 500 guys wouldn't have been that large a number to incorporate.

It may have also been the fact that the black templars lsot tolerance with the librarian situation thta they split the dark crusaders segment of the legion off because of the librarians, though remained on friendly terms.

The Black Templars HATE psykers with a passion of 1000 suns. Sorry just following the Codex Astartes would get you shot in my book about the Black Templars.

They can work together though, since space wolves and silver skulls get along and the wolves hate psykers even more (main enemy of the thousannd sons).
ANd if the dark crusaders were zealous enough, anyopne could fit in.

Yeah I know. Hehe, I love both the Space Wolves and the Dark Angels. Heck I even developed a chapter with them as the senior officers.

BaneGuard wrote:ANd if the dark crusaders were zealous enough, anyopne could fit in.

This

Also, yes, Space Wolves and Dark Angels are pretty awesome

I dislike space wolves, but love pretty much any other first founding chapter.

I have my dislikes, but they I rather only discuss in private.

Beaviz81 wrote:I have my dislikes, but they I rather only discuss in private.

About my chapter? or just about other things?

And also, could any of you guys suggest a good title for chaplian in my army?
I know the Word Bearers call their chaplians now "dark apostles" but i wonder what i could go with for my chapter.

Apostles is what springing up from the top of my head. My own chapter uses the term Disciplinarians for their Chaplains, but that's more a reflection of the heroes who helped create the chapter. Then again I rarely discuss my chapter either, because people in general doesn't like a chapter just mashed together on a battlefield.

Oh I like your chapter, heck I have a rule where I almost never comment on something I don't like. I actually find it unwise to discuss dislikes at any forum.