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http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/kings-of-war?utm_source=Mantic+Games+Newsletter&utm_campaign=16fef6931e-Mantic_Games_Newsletter_153&utm_medium=email

Are they real ??? Who next ?Maybe GW with 6ed project?
They are making from Kickstarter a place to sell their stuff.
Well established company should stay far away from Kickstarter IMHO!

I'm also scratching my head at this one.

Yeah I just got it in my email.. Interesting.

Yeah it might not be really necessary for them, but then it also works good as a pre-order tool, not just for funding new companies/products.

It could also help them reach more people that might not have known about the game. In my own campaign I think like 25% were people who clicked on it from Kickstarter's games page or homepage.

That's kind of curious, since they've already got a company that's making plenty of minis. I do like the idea of donating enough that you get your own likeness sculpted in an HQ model though, and the other stretch goals are a fun read.

Well, I have to be honest I'm a little surprised. Especially as Mantic has been around for what, 1 or 2 years now?

On the other hand, it's easy to forget that the whole company is about 10 guys just working in one building in Nottingham. They are still pretty small fry compared to the likes of GW and PP.
And perhaps offering stuff for so cheap, they aren't getting the large profit margins they need for a major re-launch of one of their planned core games.

"Hi,
we are selling Kings of War for over a year now. To celebrate this, we would like to have more money for free, so that we can save money on a slightly revised reprint that was announced in April and is now back from the printers. If we hit 50.000$ we can afford enough glue for the miniatures of our promo pics. Thanks!"


Man, how low can they get

They could have used this before they designed their "misses" like their elves

Kroothawk wrote:
Man, how low can they get

Do you mean the prices?

Wow this is a first for me, i actually agree with kroot on this one. They may be ten guys but they actually do a lot of sales and have several distributors that sell it.

Mantic is like the kid we used to all know who would do anything for a couple bucks....

god.ra wrote:
Are they real ??? Who next ?Maybe GW with 6ed project?
They are making from Kickstarter a place to sell their stuff.
Well established company should stay far away from Kickstarter IMHO!

GW doesn't need to as they already have an established market to pocket 100% of the MSRP... namely their own stores. I suspect we'll be seeing more established companies jumping on the KS bandwagon as they realize they can get away with taking the full retail price of an item without having to share it with two other tiers of the distribution network and suffer (currently) little to no fallout for doing so.

Heh, I was expecting Dakka to be as cynical as all hell about this one, and you guys haven't disappointed.

Fact of the matter is, Mantic could really use some funds.

As a lot of you have regularly complained about at length on here, the models being released by Mantic are often not plastic sprues, or if they are, they are "cheap budget jobs" like the steel warriors based on fantasy dwarfs that many of you spent several posts mocking last year.

I mean, seriously, people on here complain about Mantic for not making full sprues, and then when they try to raise some cash to make better ones, the same people who complained about that turn around and all of a sudden start declaring that Mantic is this giant company with tons of cash that shouldn't need Kickstarter at all?

They are not a large company (seriously, they have six full-time employees. Six.), and they are not well-funded currently.. if they were they wouldn't have stopped making plastic sprues in favour of resin plastic instead.

Anyway, this Kickstarter is great, - low targets, realistic goals, and it's worth noting that you actually get a good saving on the models you buy through this. The $100 pledge gets you nearly $150 of stuff. The $800 pledge gets you six armies!

Stretch goals so far are looking good too!

$7500 gets all $100+ backers names in the book.

$10000 get all backers who added some werewolves to their pledge an extra box of werewolves, for free!

Then after that, things could get interesting, maybe they'll start funding some plastic sprues as affordable replacements for the ridiculously priced GW models that half of you currently posting in this thread have been complaining about over in the GW price rise thread?

Or, I guess we could all just go back to whining that GW prices are too high and that Mantic models suck until the cows come home instead of doing anything about it?

The odds of Mantic improving their models is *much* higher in the short term than the hell-freezes-over scenario of GW lowering their prices.

I'll be backing this, and would strongly encourage anyone who really wants to see GW to have a real competitor to pitch in as well.

Mantic models really are not as horrible as everyone on the internet will constantly go out of their way to tell you. I have several hundred of them and could not be happier.

Kroothawk wrote:"Hi,
we are selling Kings of War for over a year now. To celebrate this, we would like to have more money for free, so that we can save money on a slightly revised reprint that was announced in April and is now back from the printers. If we hit 50.000$ we can afford enough glue for the miniatures of our promo pics. Thanks!"

Man, how low can they get

Pretty amusing how people jump all over a small company for using alternative channels to get the word out about a game.

1. They are only asking for $5000 so obviously it isn't about just raising funds.

2. Pretty smart way to get the word out about a game / company they may not have heard of before.

3. Really good way to measure the popularity of the game (which is always good)

4. Ohhhhhhh and only charging 35 dollars for a hard cover rule book...... seriously what a bunch of dicks..... I mean a hard cover should be at least $60. I mean really how dare they.

I have no problem with anyone using Kickstarter - garage group, mid-level or established big boy.

The project will succeed based on its merits, rewards, etc. or it won't.

Johnny-Crass wrote:Mantic is like the kid we used to all know who would do anything for a couple bucks....

I'll give Mantic £5 if they will eat a spider I just found in the bathroom.

scarletsquig wrote:Heh, I was expecting Dakka to be as cynical as all hell about this one, and you guys haven't disappointed.
....Blah blah whatever blah blah blah....
I have new for you Dakka - the odds of Mantic improving their models is *much* higher in the short term than the hell-freezes-over scenario of GW lowering their prices.

Manic fanboy or emploee???
You are missing the point.
Kickstarter is not to advertise your already established business but to fund new idea and to give chanse underdogs.
Mantic is a running business with investors! And Definately not underdog.
Asking for Cash through Kickstarter is just below any business standards.

I don't see what is to be offended about here... They are not a massive company, if they could benefit from kickstarter and people are willing to chip in, then what's the harm?

Cmon guys, what happened to just wishing people luck lol?

Kickstarter is not meant to compensate financial losses of ongoing projects due to bad business decisions. It is meant to help small companies to start new projects which otherwise wouldn't see the light. Presenting a container of already printed books as a kickstarter project is just gross.

Pretty hard for them to be already printed when the Kickstarter backers get their names inside.

Make sure to go bitch and moan at White Wolf and Paizo as well while your at it.

god.ra wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:Heh, I was expecting Dakka to be as cynical as all hell about this one, and you guys haven't disappointed.
....Blah blah whatever blah blah blah....
I have new for you Dakka - the odds of Mantic improving their models is *much* higher in the short term than the hell-freezes-over scenario of GW lowering their prices.

Manic fanboy or emploee???
You are missing the point.
Kickstarter is not to advertise your already established business but to fund new idea and to give chanse underdogs.
Mantic is a running business with investors! And Definately not underdog.
Asking for Cash through Kickstarter is just below any business standards.

wrong. it is NOT for funding a business, it's for realizing a set, well-defined project with clear goals, perks and rewards. they do that just fine, thanks.

as before to whining about kickstarter: you could just f'ing ignore the project. geesh. let us follow/fund projects we like and ignore those we don't, and fund projects you like and ignore those *you* don't.
really, opinions on the internet...

Alpharius wrote:I have no problem with anyone using Kickstarter - garage group, mid-level or established big boy.

The project will succeed based on its merits, rewards, etc. or it won't.

I'm with you, Alph! I scratched my head a bit at this, but I don't think they deserve the heat / sarcasm / etc from some of the posts above.

Fossil used Kickstarter to launch a watch... I mean come on, you can't get any more established! Check it out:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-e-paper-watch-for-iphone-and-android

The idea that Kickstarter is just for tiny companies / people just starting out is simply not true, and not what Kickstarter itself defines it's parameters as. Personally, I think that watch is awesome, and totally would have backed it if I was looking for a watch. It's sweet! And maybe wouldn't have been brought to market as quickly / at all without Kickstarter.

Let's see what their stretch goals are- hopefully they have cool stuff in mind. The 10K one certainly qualifies, imo!





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kroothawk wrote:Kickstarter is not meant to compensate financial losses of ongoing projects due to bad business decisions. It is meant to help small companies to start new projects which otherwise wouldn't see the light. Presenting a container of already printed books as a kickstarter project is just gross.

See my link above... do you consider Fossil a small company? Kroot, I love your rumor posts, but you do NOT speak for what Kickstarter is or isn't for here.

god.ra wrote:
Kickstarter is not to advertise your already established business but to fund new idea and to give chanse underdogs.

Oh really?

What about Steve Jackson Games and their Ogre Kickstarter?

Or Double Fine's videogame kickstarter? You know, the folks behind Psychonauts and Brutal Legend?

Kickstarter is an advertising and media channel. It is NOT just for 'underdogs' or 'new companies'.

Now, if you see an Electronic Arts or Hasbro Kickstarter... THEN you can bitch.

god.ra wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:Heh, I was expecting Dakka to be as cynical as all hell about this one, and you guys haven't disappointed.
....Blah blah whatever blah blah blah....
I have new for you Dakka - the odds of Mantic improving their models is *much* higher in the short term than the hell-freezes-over scenario of GW lowering their prices.

Manic fanboy or emploee???
You are missing the point.
Kickstarter is not to advertise your already established business but to fund new idea and to give chanse underdogs.
Mantic is a running business with investors! And Definately not underdog.
Asking for Cash through Kickstarter is just below any business standards.

Drugged Employee, obviously!

The evil Mantic Empire captures younglings from GW stores, covers them in LSD patches then sets them loose on internet forums. I am one of those children.

When you buy a box of Mantic miniatures it releases an odourless cloud of neurotoxins that instantly make the buyer hate everything about the great and benevolant Games Workshop.

This is clearly the only explanation, and the only reason why anyone could ever like anything that the company has ever produced, or will ever produce.

Thanks for the insult though, I absolutely *love* posts where my quote gets replaced with "blah blah blah blah" and then followed up with a crazy conspiracy theory! *hugs*

Edit - Thanks to everyone taking a neutral stance on this and not having any problem with the kickstarter, especially those of you who aren't all that interested in Mantic.

Cyporiean wrote:Pretty hard for them to be already printed when the Kickstarter backers get their names inside.
Make sure to go bitch and moan at White Wolf and Paizo as well while your at it.

The rulebook (a slightly revised edition of an existing rulebook) is on preorder for sometime with a fixed release date in 29days:
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Kings-of-War/Getting-Started/Product/Kings-of-War-Rulebook.html
Pretty hard to start printing in 29 days to accomplish this goal.

Also didn't know White Wolf is still existing after they vanished from the market after a series of bad business decisions.

RiTides wrote:See my link above... do you consider Fossil a small company? Kroot, I love your rumor posts, but you do NOT speak for what Kickstarter is or isn't for here.

Can't see a connection between the Texas based Fossil company and the California based Pebble Technology company. Please enlighten me.

WW was bought by CCP, in an attempt to leverage the IP into an MMO.

Man, did I use enough acronyms there?

Briancj wrote:

god.ra wrote:
Kickstarter is not to advertise your already established business but to fund new idea and to give chanse underdogs.

Oh really?

What about Steve Jackson Games and their Ogre Kickstarter?

Or Double Fine's videogame kickstarter? You know, the folks behind Psychonauts and Brutal Legend?

Kickstarter is an advertising and media channel. It is NOT just for 'underdogs' or 'new companies'.

Now, if you see an Electronic Arts or Hasbro Kickstarter... THEN you can bitch.

Not even then, really!

Dunno why the hate on this - I think it's great. They're a small company raising funds to try to establish themselves so they'll (hopefully) be able to release more and better products.

And it really looks like they're just testing the waters really with a pretty small, realistic Kickstarter, for a product they could probably release on their own already. (So they don't really have to worry about the Kickstarter failing - not that it will).

It's a smart, smart move by Mantic after (IMO) a string of dicey ones. I hope it works out well for them and gets them back on track as the company I was rather hopeful about 2 years ago.

(That being said, if they do use it in the future to fund plastic kits, I'm going to want to see extensive greens and mock-sprues before I would donate anything, in case they Mantic it all up.)

brettz123 wrote:
1. They are only asking for $5000 so obviously it isn't about just raising funds.

They are only asking for $5000 because the project is going ahead regardless, so they don't want any possibility of having to refuse the orders. This is simply a pre-order system piggy backing on the popularity of Kickstarter. That is not to say that it's bad business, it may well be very good business but it's also rampant opportunism and therefore Mantic's MO.

Question for mods - would it be okay if I started a second thread for this, to track its progress and provide updates over the course of the following month?

The original poster clearly is coming from a position of hating everything about this, so the odds of him putting actually relevant information in the first post as well as updating it with Stretch goals etc. is 0%.

It doesn't feel right that this will be the only kickstarter thread on this forum posted by someone who wants to attack the concept of it and see it fail rather than providing neutral information and updates on a regular basis as the funding progresses.