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I was reading the Eldrad vs. Magnus thread and didn't want to go off-topic so i thought i make a new thread about this so hear goes:
There are many psykers in the 40K background with variable ability and i was wondering about the power levels as such so i was thinking of the most powerful ones they are:
old ones (dead but was wondering how power an individual was)
the emperor
Magnus the red
Eldrad
the hive mind(was wondering if this is technically a psyker / how powerful it is as we seen plenty of case in the background of psyker (i believe chief liby of the smurfs does it a few times) combating it)
tzeecth (sp?) (in and out of the warp?)
the emperors budding, guy who hide titan for a year in the warp? (can't spell the word =P )
orks / gork and mork (how powerful are they ?)
so if there anyone i missed? i was wondering if we could get them ranked? thank you =)

Uum tzeentch is the most powerfull psyker in the galaxy.

Tzeentch is not a psyker. Tzentch is just a really powerful daemon. His powers are daemonic and warp based, but not psyker based powers. Nor are Gork and Mork psykers-- they are manifestations of the Ork race's collective psyche in the warp, utterly invincible powerhouses that like to pick on the other "gods" of the warp for fun.

You forgot primaris psykers, whom can definitely be more powerful than Librarians and Sorcerers.

The doom of malan'tai is also pretty darn fearsome, something capable of nuking an entire craftworld is something to be feared.

Primaris psykers are probably dangerous mostly becuase of their variety-- there's some as weak as the one in the codex, or some which are capable of decimating entire armies under a sea of fire. Or ones that can create an impenetrable barrier of stopped time (invulnerable to all forms of harm, D strength weapons!), or ones which can easily crush tanks with their minds. Or ones which are more focused, that can send daemons back in to the warp with a thought, cut off another psyker's access to warp power, or even force them to suffer a peril of the warp every time they try to use a psychic power.

GW really did them injustice in the IG codex...

Melissia wrote:Primaris psykers are probably dangerous mostly becuase of their variety-- there's some as weak as the one in the codex, or some which are capable of decimating entire armies under a sea of fire. Or ones that can create an impenetrable barrier of stopped time (invulnerable to all forms of harm, D strength weapons!), or ones which can easily crush tanks with their minds. Or ones which are more focused, that can send daemons back in to the warp with a thought, cut off another psyker's access to warp power, or even force them to suffer a peril of the warp every time they try to use a psychic power.

GW really did them injustice in the IG codex...

Well if they did fluff accurate rules for things like the Doom of Malan'tai or a Primaris psyker they would be relegated to apocalypse only. And then it'd only be a matter of time before some punk arse Culexus assassin or a Pariah squad walk up to them, go "sup bro" and then kill them.

The least they could have done was give more than merely two weak ass powers.

Right i see what was said about the warp beings, but what about the hive mind, where do you think it power lies? or as it is a hive mind, the more tyranids there are the more power it has?

The hive mind IS a warp being.

There was that fellow who was the Emperors right hand man. He was supposedly the most powerful human psyker ever.

Melissia wrote:Tzeentch is not a psyker. Tzentch is just a really powerful daemon.

He's a Chaos God. Daemons are those skinny dudes with the beaks he creates from himself.

The Old Ones are a big unknown in terms of psychic power. Above the Eldar? Probably. But eh.

The Emperor is the most powerful psychic in recorded history, psychically above any Daemon in existence and powerful enough to decimate the Realm of Chaos (Possibly accidentally?).

Under him is his son, Magnus the Red. Lorgar is also a very powerful psyker, not on Magnus's level however, but certainly above the vast majority of Eldar or human psykers. Sanguinius can apparently manifest his psychic powers actively for battle, but it is not known to what extent.

Eldrad fits in somewhere under Magnus the Red, maybe Lorgar tier, maybe even a bit higher. Psychically resisted a Blackstone Fortress, strongest Eldar psyker in recorded history. Also beat up Abaddon from what I have heard. Which is funny.

I do not consider the Hive Mind a psyker, but if I did, it would surely be among the most powerful ever, I'm thinking above Magnus the Red.

Tzeentch is, as Melissia stated, not a psyker.

Malcador (sp?) is a powerful psyker, one of the strongest in human history IMO. Not nearly on Magnus or even Lorgar's level I think, but enough to cause pain to the Word Bearers as a collective legion with his telepathic voice, and hide a fething moon in the Warp. Also briefly sat on the Golden Throne.

Gork and Mork are not psykers.

One you missed is Ahzek Ahriman. IMO the single most psychically powerful Space Marine, capable of creating psychic bombs that destroy enormous Librariums, summon Warp Leviathans, etc. Tigurius is of course a very powerful psyker as well.

Librarians are IMO stronger than Primaris Psykers on average, but a Primaris can certainly be more powerful.

...Just for reference: Any "who would win in a fight" thread will automatically descend into a flame war between fans of different armies because there's no actual occasion during which any of the people on this list got into a fight with another.

For the record: Based on the tabletop rules, Eldrad, Ahriman, and Tigurius are currently in the lead by having Psychic Mastery levels higher than anyone else.

Void__Dragon wrote:
Eldrad fits in somewhere under Magnus the Red, maybe Lorgar tier, maybe even a bit higher. Psychically resisted a Blackstone Fortress, strongest Eldar psyker in recorded history. Also beat up Abaddon from what I have heard. Which is funny.

Yeah, I think that was in Codex: Eye of Terror. Eldrad was pinned on the ground with his staff pointing at Abaddon, and he practically impales himself on it trying to kill him. In the end the Gods whisk him away before Eldrad has a chance to implode his mind.

While it might appear that the average primaris is a weakear psyker because of tabletop, keep in mind that Primaris Psykers are fully and wholly dedicated to psychic powers (unlike librarians), and furthermore undergo a special procedure where their skull is opened up and runes and psychic bleed-offs are carved in to the inside of their skull that minimize the risk of perils of the warp, before being put in place-- to make them able to use their power with far less risk than other psykers.

So Primaris Psykers can use the full extent of their powers with far less risk than a Libararian can.

I'd actually go ahead and put the Hive Mind above the Emperor in terms of psychic ability were it a single psychic entity rather than the gestalt of an entire highly psychic species. The Emperor never struck me as someone who could literally shut off all forms of warp communications across the entire galaxy or turn an entire species that outnumbers the stars themselves into it's meat puppets.

Kain wrote:I'd actually go ahead and put the Hive Mind above the Emperor in terms of psychic ability were it a single psychic entity rather than the gestalt of an entire highly psychic species. The Emperor never struck me as someone who could literally shut off all forms of warp communications across the entire galaxy or turn an entire species that outnumbers the stars themselves into it's meat puppets.

Neither can the hive mind.

Melissia wrote:

Kain wrote:I'd actually go ahead and put the Hive Mind above the Emperor in terms of psychic ability were it a single psychic entity rather than the gestalt of an entire highly psychic species. The Emperor never struck me as someone who could literally shut off all forms of warp communications across the entire galaxy or turn an entire species that outnumbers the stars themselves into it's meat puppets.

Neither can the hive mind.

Just get the hive fleets all in the right place and they'll smother the galaxy and shut off all faster than light communication for anyone but the Necrons. And it does have it's race of meat puppets, the tyranids themselves.

Kain wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Kain wrote:I'd actually go ahead and put the Hive Mind above the Emperor in terms of psychic ability were it a single psychic entity rather than the gestalt of an entire highly psychic species. The Emperor never struck me as someone who could literally shut off all forms of warp communications across the entire galaxy or turn an entire species that outnumbers the stars themselves into it's meat puppets.

Neither can the hive mind.

Just get the hive fleets all in the right place and they'll smother the galaxy and shut off all faster than light communication for anyone but the Necrons.

No they won't. They'll just make it harder.

And even then? Human psykers can do something almost identical to the shadow in the warp, just smaller in scale. So why do you think the Emperor isn't able to?

Kain wrote:And it does have it's race of meat puppets, the tyranids themselves.

:And yet, it isn't able to actually control them directly. It has to do it through synapse creatures.

"In ascending order:
Rho // Pi
No manifestation of psychic talent (common human being).
Omicron // Xi // Nu // Mu // Lambda // Kappa
Unconscious and minor level of psionic brain activity. Such low levels of talent only manifest in high-stress experiences and remain beyond the control of the individual. Phenomenon commonly explained as "good luck" or "fluke" occurrences.
Iota // Theta // Eta
Conscious and moderate level of psionic talent. As the individual is able to control abilities with effort, subjects of Iota level and higher are true psykers and under the jurisdiction of the Inquisition and Adeptus Astra Telepathica.
Zeta // Epsilon
Very high level of mental psychic activity. Manifesting early, these levels of talent (and those above) require the immediate attention of Imperial authorities and represent a true security threat.
Delta // Gamma
Occurring in approximately one-per-billion human births, Delta and Gamma level psykers exhibit extreme levels of psionic ability. Unless discovered quickly, death or possession are common results of the untrained mind being unable to handle this level of mental energy.
Beta // Alpha
Exceedingly rare and dangerous. Mainstream Medicae Imperialis discussion agrees that current human beings do not possess the necessary evolutionary development to contain Beta and Alpha levels of psionic talent. As such, the great majority of those discovered at this Assignment rating usually suffer from mental instability.
Alpha-Plus
In the rarest of all cases, the twenty-four point scale of the Assignment does not adequately characterize a being of indescribable ability. Such individuals, for all intents and purposes, pass beyond the scale entirely. These subjects are known as Alpha-Plus psykers."

Source: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Assignment#.T-hSIJhBTpQ


Now where individuals come in this is not clear.

Edit: As you might note At Beta // Alpha it says humans could not live as one (maybe bar the emperor) but it has that rank and another rank so they most have been discovered and they could not of been human. Only other physic race is Eldar or Orcs. Tyranids are not physic the hive mind is totally different. Daemons not either. Tau have no ability neither do Necrons.

The Tyranids *are* psychic. They are *extremely* psychic, so much so that their entire species contributes to the Hive Mind which is a *psychic gestalt.* The Hive Mind can be best thought of as a gigantic coffee filter in the warp that has strings, to which the tyranids are connected to. The Tyranids still draw from the warp, which is the water you pour into it, but all of that power is filtered through the hive mind before it reaches the Tyranids, who are the puppets attatched to the filter. Yes it's a phenomenom so powerful that even the Gods of Chaos and the Emperor's light can be drowned out by it should the Tyranids gather in sufficient numbers at any given point, but it's still very much in the warp.

"Tyranid Psykers. Many Tyranid creatures are also psykers. They do not draw power from the Warp in any fathomable way"

It is filtered through the Hive Mind. It's not my fault if Cruddance can't write to save his life. If it was not done through the warp in some manner, then it would not generate the shadow in the warp. The concept of the Hive Mind being like a filter for Tyranid psychic powers is one that is at the same time simple, yet apparently too complicated for certain people to grasp.

Melissia wrote:GW really did them injustice in the IG codex...

OTOH, they wouldn't be in the codex otherwise.

Manchu wrote:

Melissia wrote:GW really did them injustice in the IG codex...

OTOH, they wouldn't be in the codex otherwise.

She said that she would rather them have more than the two extremely mediocre powers they get.

Melissia wrote:The hive mind IS a warp being.

That's pretty debatable. It's debatable that the hive mind is even itself a being. (I need to write this in the fanon thread.) The "hive mind" could simply describe the way that Tyranids behave, similar to what ants do but with an obviously greater amount of will power and consciousness involved.

Manchu wrote:

Melissia wrote:The hive mind IS a warp being.

That's pretty debatable. It's debatable that the hive mind is even itself a being. (I need to write this in the fanon thread.) The "hive mind" could simply describe the way that Tyranids behave, similar to what ants do but with an obviously greater amount of will power and consciousness involved.

The Hive Mind is at the same time an entity independent of the Tyranids and not as such. It commands the Tyranids and overrides their own thoughts, but without the Tyranids to feed into it's gestalt presence it would not exist. It's rather like a more intrusive Gork and Mork.

No. There is not necessarily any such thing as the hive mind in the sense of a conscious agent. The hive mind could be a "way of being" instead.

See here for my take: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/456932.page#4442919

Manchu wrote:

Melissia wrote:GW really did them injustice in the IG codex...

OTOH, they wouldn't be in the codex otherwise.

So you're saying that the only way primaris psykers are going to exist is if they're deliberately made to suck by being given two half-assed powers and ZERO choice, despite the fact that primaris psykers are by far and large the most varied of any psykers in 40k, and some of the most powerful ones?

You must have a very dim view of GW.

Manchu wrote:No. There is not necessarily any such thing as the hive mind in the sense of a conscious agent. The hive mind could be a "way of being" instead.

See here for my take: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/456932.page#4442919

Except that tigurius has confirmed that it exists and drives all the Tyranids as one single entity. He describes the force that commands the entire Tyranid faction as an "immortal hunger coldly assessing me from across the void." Implying that while it is driven by a need to feed and evolve, it is still very much sapient and horrifically malevolent.

Kain wrote:Except that tigurius has confirmed that it exists and drives all the Tyranids as one single entity.

What Tugurius said is not the same thing as what you are saying.

Kain wrote:Implying that while it is driven by a need to feed and evolve, it is still very much sapient and horrifically malevolent.

What you consider to be the implication is not necessarily the implication.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:You must have a very dim view of GW.

Eh.

The guard book is supposed to reflect the concept of a big pile of guys coming at you. Having a super strong individual model doesn't really fit the theme.