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I'm not 100% sure if this is accurate cause I don't own a Rulebook, but why would you need to make a To Hit roll against something slow, like a Tank? failing that roll is like punching a wall and missing. Why should you roll?

Be ause you may not have found a sensitive area to shove a grenade, or you are too worried about tripping and falling under the tank to look for something unprotected.

Or how about because its in the rules?

BTW, there are no rules proposed here...

The proposed rule IS no need for to hits on slow vehicles

I would counterpropose, then, to increasing the armour of slow vehicles all around to keep the same probability ratio of penetration.

A tank that moved is likely going to have moved at 12 mph at least.Sure it may not be super fast but now try to climb up on it and find a weak point in the armor all well the people in the tank are doing everything they can to shake you off. Not quite so easy to do.

Misread something.
Never mind.

Still, the tanks are huge, so it's not like it is a smal target.

Game balance, thats why.

K.

And under the current rules, a stationary vehicle counts as having a weapon skill of 0 (auto-hit) and a moving vehicle counts as having a weapon skill of 1 (representing the slight difficulty of hitting a big moving thing).

I suppose this creates an incentive to move most vehicles at least 0.001" (just like skimmers moving 0.001" to get a jink save). But I still think the rules as written are pretty consistent with your view of the world.

I would also put it in the perspective of the MC. Take the Carnifex: it's big, it's powerful, it's also slow, and really stupid.

Even though the tank is moving at a slow 12 mph, the WS 1 is is repersenting that slow and stupid creature crashing through the building, catching the tank (And a Carnifex is capable of picking up a predator, with no problem) driving that massive talon through the armor and actually finding the engine, finding the turret, finding the fuel tank, or just flipping the whole thing over.

Some tanks can go over 40" a turn. They still get hit as easily as the ones that moved a quarter of an inch.
A 3+ all the time is sad and I would prefer a variable To-Hit.

Macok wrote:Some tanks can go over 40" a turn. They still get hit as easily as the ones that moved a quarter of an inch.
A 3+ all the time is sad and I would prefer a variable To-Hit.

Well even though is moved 40", the same thing is still being represented.

Was the creature there as it passed by and did it catch it?

broodstar wrote:

Macok wrote:Some tanks can go over 40" a turn. They still get hit as easily as the ones that moved a quarter of an inch.
A 3+ all the time is sad and I would prefer a variable To-Hit.

Well even though is moved 40", the same thing is still being represented.

Was the creature there as it passed by and did it catch it?

It is a lot harder to catch a vehicle traveling Mach I than to catch a vehicle traveling 10 mph.

Yeah, as distance appears to equate to speed in 40K, it should be harder to hit a vehicle that moved 40" than a vehicle that moved 0.25". Just makes sense.

Buttons wrote:

broodstar wrote:

Macok wrote:Some tanks can go over 40" a turn. They still get hit as easily as the ones that moved a quarter of an inch.
A 3+ all the time is sad and I would prefer a variable To-Hit.

Well even though is moved 40", the same thing is still being represented.

Was the creature there as it passed by and did it catch it?

It is a lot harder to catch a vehicle traveling Mach I than to catch a vehicle traveling 10 mph.

So because you're moving at mach, ambush hunting doesn't apply to you? Asentually, you are saying is that the Trapdoor Spider cannot catch the Fly. If I were in charge of writing the Tyranid Codex, I'd have Orb Spiders waiting for your fliers.

So you want the MC to have the difficulty of setting the trap in a place you will come by, but you also want it springing the trap to be more diffcult.

Oh btw, you already have that fliers can't be assualted. Even my fliers cannot assault your fliers.

90 percent of these answers are stupid donkey-cave responses.

he is asking a legit question.

a imperial guardsmen can roll to hit a squad of marines across the board 24 inches away with his BS3, so hitting on 4's.

having said this, wouldn't it be EASIER to hit a vechile at that distance than a squad?

makes perfect sense.

it would make even less sense if the squad was 24 inch away and the vecheile was 6 inch away. like common how can you miss that shot.

i think that 40k used to have penetilies for shooting longer distances i sort of wish they kept that.

but at the least i think they should of added somthing like +1 wS to shooting vechiles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also the reason behind it is probally nothing fluff wise its just that infantry where first and they carried it over to vechiles.

just to say it for the 10th time. it would be alot harder to hit that scrab swarm across the map then the tank right infront of you.

Well if you think about a 12-ton behemoth rolling towards you...I have a feeling that you might be a little jittery...

@Spacejam how would you feel about an Evasion modifier based on distance to target and target speed/terrain modifiers?

spaceXjam wrote:90 percent of these answers are stupid donkey-cave responses.

he is asking a legit question.

a imperial guardsmen can roll to hit a squad of marines across the board 24 inches away with his BS3, so hitting on 4's.

having said this, wouldn't it be EASIER to hit a vechile at that distance than a squad?

makes perfect sense.

it would make even less sense if the squad was 24 inch away and the vecheile was 6 inch away. like common how can you miss that shot.

i think that 40k used to have penetilies for shooting longer distances i sort of wish they kept that.

but at the least i think they should of added somthing like +1 wS to shooting vechiles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also the reason behind it is probally nothing fluff wise its just that infantry where first and they carried it over to vechiles.

just to say it for the 10th time. it would be alot harder to hit that scrab swarm across the map then the tank right infront of you.

Not true, it's pretty easy to take shots from across a board. Swarms are masses of little creatures, it's pretty easy to hit one at 400 yards. Take your time, line up center mass of the crowd, take your shot.

A tank right in front of you is different, and here is the "broad side of a barn" fallacy. You think "how could you miss" but in reality, your dude is crapping his pants and fumbling with his weapon.

broodstar wrote:
You think "how could you miss" but in reality, your dude is crapping his pants and fumbling with his weapon.

I agree with the logic, but I prefer to avoid these sorts of arguments because they can't consistently be applied to all models. What about a fearless tyranid? What about a robotic wraith, why does it care? What about an Apocalypse tyrant that's about to have a Rhino stub its toe? Or Eldar that fluff-wise can leap around tanks with ease.?

I think it's just not a complete given that you'll hit a moving vehicle. If it's stationary, you autohit (WS=0). But if it moves, you might get a funny angle, the vagaries of chance... whatever.

The issue here (if there is an issue at all) is that perhaps the fact that the best To Hit roll you can ever have is 3+... and when a weapon-master is swinging at a slow moving land raider (with all of it's weapons destroyed), hitting 4/6 of the time might be a little implausible.

Macok wrote:Some tanks can go over 40" a turn. They still get hit as easily as the ones that moved a quarter of an inch.
A 3+ all the time is sad and I would prefer a variable To-Hit.

I do agree with this. But the gameplay tradeoff is that things get complicated. Perhaps some sort of rule like WS = round up(distance moved / 10). Stationary = 0, 1"-10" =1 ... 40"+ = 4.

broodstar wrote:
So because you're moving at mach, ambush hunting doesn't apply to you? Asentually, you are saying is that the Trapdoor Spider cannot catch the Fly. If I were in charge of writing the Tyranid Codex, I'd have Orb Spiders waiting for your fliers.

It is more like saying that a soldier will have a tougher time grabbing onto and damaging a tank driving at high speeds than one slowly rolling along. Look at it like this, there are three cars driving by, and you have to climb onto them and their destroy them with a club or attach a bomb to it. Which would be easiest, and hardest? A car that isn't moving, a car that is moving 5 mph, or a car that is moving 70 mph.

So you want the MC to have the difficulty of setting the trap in a place you will come by, but you also want it springing the trap to be more diffcult.

Don't know what you are getting at here.

Oh btw, you already have that fliers can't be assualted. Even my fliers cannot assault your fliers.

Dark Eldar raiders and vemons are really fast yet can still be assaulted.

Orkboy1 wrote:Still, the tanks are huge, so it's not like it is a smal target.

You have missed the part where 'hitting' does not just mean physically striking something, but actually striking a spot where you can do damage. Just like causing a wound to an infantry model doesn't necessarily mean they're dead, just out of the immediate fight for whatever reason, missing an attack doesn't mean you swung an whiffed completely, it means you failed to do anything that could could even potentially cause damage.

As has been said most of a tank is armored enough that you have no hope of hurting it with anything other then special weapons. But By hitting it where it's weak you can destroy it. The to hit roll is for finding those weak points and getting to them well it is moving. If you really wanted this to make sense every roll of 1 to hit against a moving tank should have a chance to of a model getting kill as it gets caught up in the tanks treads.

People seem to be overlooking the fluff that vehicles are represented as being assaulted during times of repair or maintenance, literally, ambushed at the right time.

The speed affects the to-hit roll because those are your chances of setting up a proper ambush;