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Just want to know your thoughts for why you would choose that choice Dakka peoples. Put em down below.

In regular codex, I would pick Warp spiders for strength and flexibility. If FW models were a choice, I would use Hornets.

The nightwing interceptor. A flyer with a 2+ save when evading and a 4+ save when out in the open . 6 Str 6 shots and 2 Str 8 lance shots as well as vector dancer.

If only codex options then id go with the spiders

tedurur wrote:
The nightwing interceptor. A flyer with a 2+ save when evading and a 4+ save when out in the open . 6 Str 6 shots and 2 Str 8 lance shots as well as vector dancer.

If only codex options then id go with the spiders

Doesn't it just have 2 bright lances & two shuriken cannons?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wonder if anyone will say Wasp War Walkers with 2x scatter lasers....

Agile only gives +1 to jink covet saves. So the interceptor only had a normal 5+ due to shrouded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, it takes 2 bright lances and 2 Shuriken cannons. Vector dance makes it be able to stay in the board the whole game and allows it to keep its target in sight the whole game.

Hornet's. More expensive, but more mobile War Walkers are nice.

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Agile only gives +1 to jink covet saves. So the interceptor only had a normal 5+ due to shrouded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, it takes 2 bright lances and 2 Shuriken cannons. Vector dance makes it be able to stay in the board the whole game and allows it to keep its target in sight the whole game.

Indeed, yeah. Brainfart on the 4+ save in the open.

tedurur wrote:

 Razgriz22 wrote:
Agile only gives +1 to jink covet saves. So the interceptor only had a normal 5+ due to shrouded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, it takes 2 bright lances and 2 Shuriken cannons. Vector dance makes it be able to stay in the board the whole game and allows it to keep its target in sight the whole game.

Indeed, yeah. Brainfart on the 4+ save in the open.

I was kind of hoping you would come back at me and prove me wrong lol. I'd take a 4+ save :-)

To the two of you who chose Shining Spears:

Do you use them regularly or just when fighting armies with high T & at best 3+ armor like Nids?

I choose warp spiders just because I love them, but I like the shining spears. But that was 5th edition when you could bring a autarch with lance and a star lance for the exarch and assault a terminator squad and make them dissapear with the help of doom. I know they are expensive but I had a lot of fun with them before. Now I would rather take spiders for the strength 6, or swooping hawks for the haywire.

warpspider89 wrote:

I wonder if anyone will say Wasp War Walkers with 2x scatter lasers....

Considering those are Troops, I'd hope not.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

I wonder if anyone will say Wasp War Walkers with 2x scatter lasers....

Considering those are Troops, I'd hope not.

Omg those are troops?!? Best troop choice ever? I think so!

I voted Spiders because they are tough, fast, tricky, have 2 chances to move with the relic (cant run, but assault jumps are okay as far as I know), and have the second most efficient S6 hit to point ratio (next to Scatter Walkers).

Ideally I want my FA slots to be 2x Pulse Hornets, 2x ShuCan Hornets and 10x Spiders with Exarch using Dual Spinners, Withdraw and Power Blades.

If I can't use FW, I'll take Shining Spears with Spiders, assuming I have points. They're both expensive units, but I think they're both attractive in 6th. The Spiders much more so than the Spears though.

Ive had empty bikes sitting around for stand ins and i have the metal shining spears models but I havent ever actually put it all together. They just have sat in my bits bag. I got an urge to toss them on bikes and glue them up. I look forward to testing them out possibly with a fortuneseer on jetbike? So from what I see, they can charge anthing but TEQa?

From FW, the Hornet. Hornets all with PLs are overkill, but they are well worth every penny. Plus, the model is super cool!

Really wish GW would adopt the Hornets as regular fast attack option in future Eldar Codex. That, & Eldar Firestorm too.

From Codex, I'd take Vypers every single day. Full squadron with Star-Cnn & Shu-Cnn. Must get Farseer to Guide & Fortune them though.

I wouldn't charge hordes with Spears. Or heck, even a full tactical squad would kill a couple Spear in return attacks, diminishing their use in the rest of the battle. They're really a clean up unit IMO, because of their low # of attacks. That and they damage tanks with little difficulty. With a ShuCan on the exarch too, they can harass until there is a good opening for them to go kill.

The only part that keeps me from fielding the spears is the fact that they have 2 attacks per model... That just really hurts their effectivenss.

I would and do choose Wasp Assult Walkers. I love them because it allows me to basically take lots of Str 6 shooting that is more mobile than War Walkers while keeping all of my Heavy Support options open for things like Fire Prisms or Warp Hunters. . I also like them because a lot of the local Ork players have been camping objectives with large units of Grots. So I send in the Wasps to clean them out.

While Corsair Wasp Assult Walkers might be troops choices, the ones for regular Eldar are Fast Attack choices.

 Razgriz22 wrote:
The only part that keeps me from fielding the spears is the fact that they have 2 attacks per model... That just really hurts their effectivenss.

Shining Spears have only 1 attack.


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warpspider89 wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

I wonder if anyone will say Wasp War Walkers with 2x scatter lasers....

Considering those are Troops, I'd hope not.

Omg those are troops?!? Best troop choice ever? I think so!

No, Troops that score are better.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Razgriz22 wrote:
The only part that keeps me from fielding the spears is the fact that they have 2 attacks per model... That just really hurts their effectivenss.

Shining Spears have only 1 attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

warpspider89 wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

warpspider89 wrote:

I wonder if anyone will say Wasp War Walkers with 2x scatter lasers....

Considering those are Troops, I'd hope not.

Omg those are troops?!? Best troop choice ever? I think so!

No, Troops that score are better.

I was hoping people would assume tat I meant on the charge. But yes, you further prove my worries of low amount of attacks

Yeah assuming the charge makes sense because they're useless unless they charge.

I own a hornet, but I cannot for the life of me justify the points for something that soft. 6th Edition effectively made them even worse since they had the special ability to make their move and still shoot at full capacity in 5th. So now i'm paying extra points for that ability that they pretty much already had.

Warp Spiders, though I would love to hand someone their lunch with Swooping Hawks, such lovely models should not be worthless.

MaxDamage wrote:
Warp Spiders, though I would love to hand someone their lunch with Swooping Hawks, such lovely models should not be worthless.

I agree. I love the models, their just so useless right now. Hopefully they'll get the oppurtunity to attack flyers with the new codex. Their fluff always seemed to indicate they went that route.

djones520
Its hard for me to see Hornets that way when they are undercosted in the first place if you take them stock. And they're the exact same thing as a Vyper but much, much better. The only thing a Vyper has that is useful is a turret instead of hull-mounted guns. I know there are some people who just don't like our Walkers and Vypers, but to anyone who was already runnin those and who is used to using them and losing them, the Hornet is the best of both and a lot more to boot.

djones520 wrote:

MaxDamage wrote:
Warp Spiders, though I would love to hand someone their lunch with Swooping Hawks, such lovely models should not be worthless.

I agree. I love the models, their just so useless right now. Hopefully they'll get the oppurtunity to attack flyers with the new codex. Their fluff always seemed to indicate they went that route.

There is an Apocalypse formation that lets them go after fliers, Baharroth's Tempest

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Baharroth%27s_Tempest#.UFT2a1Gz5UM here's a description

In larger points games I always throw my Hawks in, love the models sadly the rule are not that good. I use them to suicide heywire tanks now with the changes to 6th. Its an odd role and they are decent at it.

Really hope hawks and all eldar jump infantry get a boost with the next codex. It would be nice to run non mech fast Eldar much like the IA11 Corsair list can with jump infantry troops.

Last night I fought against a World Eaters army with my Eldar & BT army. Since this an Eldar fast attack discussion topic, I'll just comment on my Eldar's performance only.

It was mission no.6 - Relic.

I used 2 full squadron of Starcannon-Shuriken Cannons Vypers and a sqd of 5 Warpspiders with Exarch (dual spinners, pwrblades). Both types did pretty well, but the Warp Spiders were destroyed in just 1 turn of enemy vector striking, shooting & assault in Turn 2. Where as, my Vypers survived much longer, with the last one being destroyed only in turn 7.

I'm not saying the Warp Spiders weren't good. Heck, they dished out 12 reliable S6 shots per turn which were quite nasty. Unfortunately, even with their jump-back move in assault phase, its a random 2d6" distance. Since they need to be within 12" for their weapons to be effective, they were not safe from enemy vector striking, small arms firing & close combat unit charging.

My Vypers survived much longer mainly because of Eldrad & back-up Farseer were able to cast Fortune to both squadrons. Even in the face of 8 lascannons shots per turn, they managed to withstood the enemy shooting phases & avoid being charged for most of the game. And since they were shooting from a safe distance of minimum 24", they didn't suffer from the double demons' vector strike or the Berzerkers' small arms fire.

And boy I just love starcannons. They wiped out my opponent's Berzerkers & Termies like flies (my Vypers had help of course from my 3 Pulse-Starcannons Falcons). Even when the opponent managed to hug covers, forcing 5+ cover svs are so much better than allowing 3+ armour svs.

So, my vote for Fast Attck choice would still be the Vypers due to:
1. They can easily benefit from friendly Farseer casting Fortune for maintaining close distance (6") from the Farseer's Falcon/Serpent.
2. They can easily avoid enemy FMCs' vector strikes & assault
3. Even when the FMCs managed to use vector strike, they can get 5+ cover with re-roll failed sv (from Fortune).
4. They don't have to hug covers cuz they have 5+ jink sv (as long as they keep moving)
5. When/If you want to hide them behind terrain/ruins/building, it is easily done due to their small compact size
6. They can take starcannons!

While vypers can fit in some places, and in your case being a mech army where they stick no further then 6" away from eldrad, then they are more effective. But that makes them more static doesnt it? And wouldnt that be just more pts effective t take war walkers then? 2 full squads of Star cannon shu cannon vyers costs 480 pts! I just see them go down to bolter fire often enough.

Maybe my table tactics arent good enough to keep them around long. I could see if both squads were fortuned AND guided (due to that BS3 crap) then they would be a force to rekon with. But that requires a mobile eldrad AND another farseer.

Maybe youve just had better luck then I, but I see alot of people finding spiders more effective. If you took 480 pts of spiders (which would be about 2 full squads of spiders with a decked out exarch) im sure they would do more then the vypers lol.

If you play Vypers while remaining static and at the receiving end of bolter fires, then you are playing it wrong man. Vypers should almost always move up to12" & stay away from mass bolter fires.

Sure, WWs pack more firing rate, but the models are too tall & bulky making them difficult to be properly 'hidden' to benefit from cover svs. With only 6" movement, they are not that maneuverable and fast enemy can catch up to them really quick.

And about Vypers being BS3, so are WWs by the way. This can easily be solved by having Farseers/Eldar within 6" vicinity - either on j-bike or aboard Falcon/Serpent casting Guide (& Fortune).

The problem with W-Spiders, as I've mentioned before, lies with their weapons range - too short. If you want to take 10 W-Spiders, then positioning for all of them to be able to shoot will be quite troublesome, making some models being put too close from the intended target. Some of them might not even be able to shoot at the target.

If you put the W-Spiders just 11"-12" from the target, then any casualty will only be taken from the ones that the spinners reach. But if you want to max-out potential casualties, you have to put your W-Spiders closer, & that will put them at risk.

If your jump-back move is 10"-12", that would be great! Unfortunately, often times they didn't jump-back far enough (7"-8" on average) & ended up either being vector-struck, flamed, shot to pieces, or worse still being assaulted by the very unit they were shooting before.

Against IG, or DE, or Tau, maybe you'll be tempted to charge the survivors from the targeted unit. But against MEQs or Terminators-spam armies, they'll just shrugged off the shots/assault & then give payback for worse. Being T3 at the receiving end of bolt pistol/bolter/stormbolter fires or even normal S4 close combat attacks really hurt, even with 3+ armour.

Yeah, Vypers are as fragile as papers. AV10 is terrible, but at least bolters still need 6s to do anything instead of being wounded on 3+. At least in my experience, they very seldomly being gunned down by bolters due to the fact that the bolter-wielders were shot down before they can even shoot the Vypers with their bolters.

Drop Pod/Deepstriking units are a problem, but those are the challenges in games. If there's no avoiding it, then take the brunt & roll (& re-roll) your jink svs!