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I've read a lot of posts where people mentioned how good combat tactics is now in 6th edition. While on paper I can see the appeal of it, in practice I find it very situational at best, at worst it's pretty useless.

Has anyone built SM lists around the combat-tactics abilities?
Anybody has stories of successfully using combat-tactics multiple times in a game?

I'm not looking for people explaining to me the workings of the rule, I'm looking for actual situations where it really helped you guys out and/or turned the tide of a game.

Thanks.

Combat Tactics combined with ATSKNF is arguably better than Fearless in this edition.

Now that the game is shootier, you have muchvto gain by being able to leave a combat you know you will lose or one that wil ltake forever and lock your unit and render its special weapons useless for many turns.

As long as you are not too close to the edge of the board or facing enemies with high Initiative, running away is a good choice with tacticals and other shooty units. Let's see why:

-Enemy charges you, you lose combat. Choose to run and you move 2d6 away, then auto-rally. In your next turn, you get to fire bolters, flamers, psychic powers and whatever else you have at the unit that charged you or anything else withing range. Then in the next enemy turn, you get yet another overwatch, taking a substantial toll on whatever atacked you.

In addition, unlike Fearless units, you can Go to Ground in terrain for a very good cover save.

Like I said, I know the mechanics of the rule, I'm not discarding what you're saying, I'm just looking for testimonies of people who have actually used combat tactics successfully.
In practice, most of the times at least, if my tactical squad is stuck in a combat they can't win breaking off won't help that much, if anything it allows that same unit to charge again and get extra attacks.
Can some people post some specific situations where combat-tactics saved their butt?

 phoenix darkus wrote:
Can some people post some specific situations where combat-tactics saved their butt?

I played a bike army for most of 5th edition. These same functions of combat tactics still apply.

1) People would want to assault my bikes and shot them first. I would use combat tactics to fall back out of assault range. You would think people would not make this mistake - yet I found extremely skilled players making it.

2) Going to ground and falling back when forced to make the check. I had a squad of 6 bikes behind a piece of terrain and was shot by a demolisher. All 6 bikes were hit by the blast. I went to ground to get the improved cover save, betting that I would lose at least 2 of them. They auto-fell back and I was able to rally them.

3) I would get out of assault with combat tactics with my bikes -- but to be honest it did not happen often. At best it would happen a handful of times. Usually when a beatstick is engaged with your MEQ, they will have a higher init than you. Exceptions are things like Necron wraiths.

 labmouse42 wrote:

2) Going to ground and falling back when forced to make the check. I had a squad of 6 bikes behind a piece of terrain and was shot by a demolisher. All 6 bikes were hit by the blast. I went to ground to get the improved cover save, betting that I would lose at least 2 of them. They auto-fell back and I was able to rally them.

Bikes and Jetbikes cannot go to ground. Not in 6th, nor in 5th.

Also sweeping advance rolls for breaking away from combat use your unmodified initiative stat, so whip coil wraiths would not prevent you from getting away unless you rolled really poorly.

Thanks Labmouse42, now we're getting somewhere. Anybody else has some good stories about the successful use of combat-tactics?

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Bikes and Jetbikes cannot go to ground. Not in 6th, nor in 5th.

Are you sure? In 5th you could not go to ground while turbo-boosting, but I saw nothing ever about normally going to ground.

Edit : I just broke out my 5th ed rulebook. Nowhere in the going to ground section does it excempt bikes. On page 53 (section about bikes) it does not say anything about not being able to go to ground. Again - bikes could not while turbo boosting, but normally there was nothing against it.

In 6th edition, it states on page 45 bikes can no longer go to ground. This is likely due to the jink save.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Also sweeping advance rolls for breaking away from combat use your unmodified initiative stat, so whip coil wraiths would not prevent you from getting away unless you rolled really poorly.

Hence the phrase "Exceptions" Wraiths are one of the things that CT lets you get out of without much trouble.

 labmouse42 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Bikes and Jetbikes cannot go to ground. Not in 6th, nor in 5th.

Are you sure? In 5th you could not go to ground while turbo-boosting, but I saw nothing ever about normally going to ground. Noone -- even skilled players -- ever called me on it when I did so.

I'm quite sure. No 5th BRB with me on hand but the text in the 6th rulebook says:

Warhammer 40K 6th edition Rulebook, page 45 wrote:

Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Go to Ground, and cannot be Pinned.

It's on the leftmost column, last paragraph.

5th edition is not 6th edition
I have the 5th ed book in front of me right now, as I just double checked.

I agree that the example I provided does not apply today due to the changes on bikes, yet I preferaced that those were done in 5th edition. I am stating that I was not cheating, as going to ground was allowed in 5th edition on bikes.

 labmouse42 wrote:
5th edition is not 6th edition
I have the 5th ed book in front of me right now, as I just double checked.

I agree that the example I provided does not apply today due to the changes on bikes, yet I preferaced that those were done in 5th edition. I am stating that I was not cheating, as going to ground was allowed in 5th edition on bikes.

No it wasn't.


Edit - Yes it was. I apologize.

Damn, i could've sworn they were prohibited though.

You guys can argue this in pms, thanks. Can we get back on track?

Basically, Combat Tactics doesn't come up much, but when it does, you are very happy you have it.
You get to reposition and re-commit on your own terms thanks to ATSKNF.

Both rules sort of removes luck factors that can lose you a squad...whether it be losing a squad due to being tarpitted, killed in an unfavorable combat via sweeping or 2 round killy units, or continued running off the board.

It's the synergy of both rules that makes it great having in your back pocket.

I find it suprising how many people forget they have combat tactics.

I was playing at BFS against a C:SM player on round four. Between fateweaver and those flamers, I fried the hell out of his 10 man squad.

He took (and passed) his LD check instead of using combat tactics to fall back closer the rest of his force. Were I him, I would have taken advantage of the free movement to fall back twords that vindicator you see in the picture. He should have focused on keeping the last 2 alive, so he could use them for quarters.
The turn after I took this picture, I used CSM in a bastion to snipe those remaining two models since he left them in range of my bastion.

 phoenix darkus wrote:
I've read a lot of posts where people mentioned how good combat tactics is now in 6th edition. While on paper I can see the appeal of it, in practice I find it very situational at best, at worst it's pretty useless.

Has anyone built SM lists around the combat-tactics abilities?
Anybody has stories of successfully using combat-tactics multiple times in a game?

I'm not looking for people explaining to me the workings of the rule, I'm looking for actual situations where it really helped you guys out and/or turned the tide of a game.

Thanks.

TBH I went through an entire league scaling tournament, 1000/1350/1550/1850 with 2-3 games a week for 4 weeks. Not once did it really come in handy. I hear the same thing you are hearing about how it's awesome now, and while it did get a boost...my own personal experiences with it in actual games hasn't been really that great. Either their I is higher than mine and I have to roll better or I lose the roll to try to break lose or they just kill my tacticals because things you want to break from are probably already smashing your guys in.

I don't think it's all that. It's nice to have and good to know that you have it, but hardly anything noticeably good...

You don't build a list around it, but it wins games. Almost everybody shoots the squad they want to charge beforehand, even when they have a deathstar, and then I just fall back. I have also used it after going to ground to be able to shoot next turn.

It comes up everytime you roll for morale.
That is actually quite often. Most turns at least a squad will need a morale check or is it just me? Marines do not die that quickly but more than 25% is only 3 marines.

The best use, I find, is to either to run away in the shooting phase away from cc else indeed making the enemy think twice and so shoot less before charging into assault.

Every time you roll for morale, you get given a choice of where you want to be next turn. With a shooty army usually it is further back.

Actually with bikes I have rolled badly for the 3d6 retreat, you can easily run off the board if you are not careful. I still rate combat tactics highly for bike armies despite the risk of losing units.

In my last game against chaos. A tactical squad in a pod misshaped for misplaced. My buddy out it right in front of his chaos termies. I shot the termies killed 2 on my turn. On his turn he shot my tactical killing 3. I auto failed for a 6" move to put me 12" away. He failed his charge and lost 1 Termie due to overwatch. I auto rallied on my turn shot his termies again killing none. Then he didn't shoot me before hand and charged. Killed 3 tacticals in combat. I fled, shot his termies killing the last 2. So combat tactic killed 5 termies, while only losing 6 tacticals. I've done something similar to that with sternguard quite a few times as well.

Combat tactics is good. Situational? I'd argue against it being situational, because I make sure a CT flee will make it extremely difficult for an opp. To catch up with me.

If you plan your moves ahead of time combat tactics and the ability to auto regroup thanks to atsknf makes it über powerful. Without atsknf it would be almost useless. But 6th gave it a mega boost.

Chancetragedy wrote:
On his turn he shot my tactical killing 3. I auto failed for a 6" move to put me 12" away.

How did this part happen?

Sounds awesome that it happened.

I was 6" away and when I auto failed my morale test I rolled 6" move to put me at 12"ish away from his terminators.

Yes, it's situational, because the situation is caused by an opponent.
From what I've seen, if you don't have a chance to use combat tactics, you're most likely already winning.

For a shooty marine army, it's free extra shots more often than not. I wish I could get it with my blood angels.

-Matt

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Glad to see that it has worked for people out there.