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2012/10/27 02:44:46
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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With the point increase, is the Defiler now too expensive to be a competitive choice?
I do like how the battlecannon is more effective now, hitting S8 at all times, less cover saves, more footsloggers on the board etc.
The defensive upgrades from the last codex are substantial, but the greatest concern is melta or lascannon penetrating hit. Demon engines are made to resist the slow death by hull points, not the one shot kill.
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2012/10/27 03:04:44
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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No I say they are still very useful. Are they super comp, maybe not, but I don't bother with that attitude anymore. I'll say that like any vehicle in 40k this edition, it can either be very good or very bad.
The defiler has many weapon systems, which it can all fire and move. It's a horde's worst nightmare. The new rules too make it a lot harder to kill.
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2012/10/27 03:47:32
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Just field it as an allied soul grinder, if you are taking daemon allies. Still just as destructive, at bargain basement prices. And AV13 to boot.
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2012/10/27 17:24:31
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Battleship Captain
Oregon
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Kevlar wrote:Just field it as an allied soul grinder, if you are taking daemon allies. Still just as destructive, at bargain basement prices. And AV13 to boot.
No doubt the soul grinder is a better option, but adding it involves adding all the required elements of allies and to be honest, I have neither the available points or money to start collecting a 2nd army right now.
One thing that is noteworthy is that its one of the very few vehicles with 4 hull points. That combined with a 5++ save and IWND makes it more difficult to kill in the current metagame where people are loading up on S6/S7 weapons and not melta.
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2012/10/27 17:30:33
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Martial Arts Fiday
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ZombieJoe wrote:
The defiler has many weapon systems, which it can all fire and move.
No, it cannot fire Ordnance plus the other weapons.
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"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
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Proverbs 18:2
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Albatross wrote:I think SlaveToDorkness just became my new hero.
EmilCrane wrote:Finecast is the new Matt Ward.
Don't mess with the Blade and Bolter! |
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2012/10/27 17:31:24
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Yes it can, but only as Snap Fire.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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2012/10/27 17:45:13
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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It is really too expensive for any real competitive use. the battle cannon is nice, but you can get battlecannons for much much less. The 4 hull points, 5++ and IWND is nice, but melta is just too effective. Automatically Appended Next Post:  Exergy wrote:It is really too expensive for any real competitive use. the battle cannon is nice, but you can get battlecannons for much much less. The 4 hull points, 5++ and IWND is nice, but melta is just too effective.
you could get a maulerfiend and a LRBT for almost the same points. Yes you would have to ally in guard, but guard are great allies for chaos.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/27 17:46:02
   Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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2012/10/27 18:33:41
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Blast weapons can't snap.
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=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DQ:80-S---G+MB-I+PW40K00#-D++A+/fWD-R++T(M)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code======
"I just scoop up the whole unit in my hands and dump them in a pile roughly 6" forward. I don't even care."
- Lord_Blackfang on moving large units
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2012/10/27 18:35:36
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Since when are Reaper Autocannons blast weapons? 
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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2012/10/27 18:42:50
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores
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somecallmeJack wrote:
Blast weapons can't snap.
It can fire it's battlecannon, snapfire it's Reaper and the rest depends on what options you picked. Hvy Flamer or Havok Launcher couldn't be fired but you can swap HF for a Combi-Bolter for a couble more snapfire shots. Actually think the Combi-Bolter would be in addition to the Heavy Flamer since it's bough from Vehicle upgrades and the HF swap options are listed in the unit entry. Nice. Twin-linked Heavy Flamer on overwatch is beautiful. 
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Slottabases for the Slottabase God!
   Daemon host - 2000
 Death Guard &  Iron Wraiths Chaos Space Marines - 1500 pts incl. mini's from my Daemon Host
Beastmen Warherd - between 1000-1250 points (depending on magic items etc.)
Necromunda/RT Genestealer Cult
Necromunda/RT Beastmen Cult
Old West Lawmen + Cowboys posses
VSF British
Hasslefree Mesaan Army (wip)
Various Post Apocalyptic minis and vehicles for Wasteland 3 Meltdown |
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2012/10/27 18:47:19
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Sorry, I thought you meant 'yes it can [fire ordnance] but only as snap'. My bad.
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=====Begin Dakka Geek Code=====
DQ:80-S---G+MB-I+PW40K00#-D++A+/fWD-R++T(M)DM+
======End Dakka Geek Code======
"I just scoop up the whole unit in my hands and dump them in a pile roughly 6" forward. I don't even care."
- Lord_Blackfang on moving large units
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2012/10/27 19:56:37
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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 minigun762 wrote:Kevlar wrote:Just field it as an allied soul grinder, if you are taking daemon allies. Still just as destructive, at bargain basement prices. And AV13 to boot.
No doubt the soul grinder is a better option, but adding it involves adding all the required elements of allies and to be honest, I have neither the available points or money to start collecting a 2nd army right now.
One thing that is noteworthy is that its one of the very few vehicles with 4 hull points. That combined with a 5++ save and IWND makes it more difficult to kill in the current metagame where people are loading up on S6/S7 weapons and not melta.
Most people who have been collecting chaos have a few daemons available. You didn't use any generic daemons in the previous edition? All you need is one HQ and one troop. You can get a herald and five basic daemons for next to no points and still field your defiler as an extra heavy support.
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2012/10/27 20:31:47
Subject: Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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Stone Bonkers Fabricator General
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Kevlar wrote: minigun762 wrote:Kevlar wrote:Just field it as an allied soul grinder, if you are taking daemon allies. Still just as destructive, at bargain basement prices. And AV13 to boot.
No doubt the soul grinder is a better option, but adding it involves adding all the required elements of allies and to be honest, I have neither the available points or money to start collecting a 2nd army right now.
One thing that is noteworthy is that its one of the very few vehicles with 4 hull points. That combined with a 5++ save and IWND makes it more difficult to kill in the current metagame where people are loading up on S6/S7 weapons and not melta.
Most people who have been collecting chaos have a few daemons available. You didn't use any generic daemons in the previous edition? All you need is one HQ and one troop. You can get a herald and five basic daemons for next to no points and still field your defiler as an extra heavy support.
you get the HQ and the 5 troops for nothing from the discount you get on the soul grinder vs the defiler battle cannon.
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Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Iron Hand Dakka Blog
My Dark Mechanicus P&M Blog. Mostly Modeling as I paint very slowly. Lots of kitbashed conversions of marines and a few guard to make up a renegade Iron Hand chapter and Dark Mechanicus Allies. Bionics++ |
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2012/10/27 22:23:56
Subject: Re:Defiler too expensive to be useful?
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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I actually think they're worth it...
I'd only give them extra power fist, dirge caster and the gargolye (soul fire'ed his gun).
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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