GK Storm Raven Tactics

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**Messy0**

Hello Dakka. Finally got my SR built but now that's its ready to use i realise iv never used a flyer and have little idea what to do with it. Any advice on the best ways you have found to use the Storm Raven in a GK or BA army would awesome, i know GK and BA are very different but it will be good to hear how a variety of players use their Ravens.
I'll be using my Raven in the list below at 1750:

Draigo

10 Paladins (4x Psycannons, mix of hammers, swords and halberds) - This means i can combat squad all of the psycannons into 1 squad which allowed the other half to go for CC while the psycannons keep shooting

5 Paladins (1x falchions, 1x warding stave, 1x hammer, 1x halberd, 1x sword, 2 psycannons) - This is Draigos squad probably in the Storm Raven

Storm Raven (Las/MM)

Dread Knight (Personal teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psy)

I've heard the Storm Raven has huge potential and i have a vague idea that i want to use it as my anti-armor against tanks and flyers mostly because I have very little other heavy weapons. Would also like to use it as a transport but I've also heard using it in duel rolls often ends badly. Got a game against Space Wolves tonight to try it out for the first time. So what do you think Dakka? Whats the best tactics to use with a Storm Raven considering strengths/weaknesses/loadouts?

**Homeskillet**

I use mine as a gunship kitted out with multi-melta, assault cannon, hurricane bolters, and psybolt ammo. Run the raven right up to whatever heavy armor I want crushed so I can roll the extra d6 for melta. the asscannon also has a tendency to rend, getting extra penetration. Usually the army then tends to focus all their heavy weapons on the raven, leaving my foot to advance without getting too much fire. the raven still almost always survives thanks to Evade.

**DakotaBlue**

I use 2 different loadouts:

Shooty one:

Psiammo, Hurricane bolters, multimelta and autocannon

Fantastic shooting, can get into short range pretty good and get to shoot 6x2 bolters, AC and melta, the melta usually vs a tank or something with hull points, thanks to machine spirit.

Also, if you plan to combat squad the paladins, get the 5 CC ones into the raven, and bring them into yours opponent face.

The transport one:

LC and multimelta

Not so shooty, but great for transport you units pretty fast. Same things as with the other one for the transport thing.

My raven have been taken down only twice in this edition, but I bring more thing to the table than you, I don't play paladins, and people tend to fire other things. If you loose the raven while flying, you'll have a bad time.

Vs some armies, I'll consider deepstriking them instead of a raven and getting another dreadknight.

**Messy0**

Homeskillet wrote:
I use mine as a gunship kitted out with multi-melta, assault cannon, hurricane bolters, and psybolt ammo. Run the raven right up to whatever heavy armor I want crushed so I can roll the extra d6 for melta. the asscannon also has a tendency to rend, getting extra penetration. Usually the army then tends to focus all their heavy weapons on the raven, leaving my foot to advance without getting too much fire. the raven still almost always survives thanks to Evade.

What are you using as you heavy weapons? Since i dont have any psyful dreads iv been relying on the DK to take out heavy armor so far, but the Las is only 1 shot so its not exactly reliable either. Have you tried using the PC/MM? The extra rending on the assault cannon could be useful but nowhere near reliable.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DakotaBlue wrote:

My raven have been taken down only twice in this edition, but I bring more thing to the table than you, I don't play paladins, and people tend to fire other things. If you loose the raven while flying, you'll have a bad time.

Vs some armies, I'll consider deepstriking them instead of a raven and getting another dreadknight.

Yea i was thinking that, loosing 5 paladins due to getting my Raven shot down would be pretty much 1/3 of my army gone, would be a very bad time.
I like the idea of the shooty version, but it would mean i have a serious lack of anti-mech. Maybe the multi-melta and autocannon would be enough with psy-ammo/hurricane bolters, but Its a lot of points to sink into a already expensive unit

**Goat**

I don't usually put anything into my ravens anymore. I think the most effective build is the TL MM, TL AC, side sponsons with psy ammo. A lot of my recent games I rather just bring mo' powa' arma'!

**wuestenfux**

In your specific list, it would be better to keep the Paladins led by Draigo on the board so that they can bring their two psycannons to bear. Here, the Stormraven is better used as a gun boat.

**greyknight12**

I usually run it with TL MM and TL PC+hurricanes (the hurricanes aren't really necessary though). Zoom in next to a tank and shoot it with multi-melta 2D6 pen, then fire everything else into whatever unit you particularly despise. Power of the Machine Spirit! I like the plasma cannon because TL=1/36 chance to get hot and the grey knights really lack ranged low AP stuff.

I've only tried it once with limited success (I got very unlucky with some necrons), but the MM+LC combo gives you a very good chance to blow up two tanks a turn (once again, Power of the Machine Spirit), and then when you want to target troops you can unload all your missiles on them.

The heavy bolter/assault cannon/hurricane bolters with pysbolt ammo combo brings all sorts of cool gunship images to mind but it'd be really more for hordes/monstrous creatures. Haven't had a chance to try that one out yet.

Those are the three builds I've thought of. But being able to have a very survivable tank that shoots 5 weapons a turn is very nice. I'd use it as a pure gunship and keep your paladins on the ground, because as soon as the raven drops into hover to offload it will probably die. Most players take more than enough anti-armor to take down a 3 HP AV12 skimmer.

**Messy0**

Getting Ready for my game now at my local meta. Im going to go for the gunship approach with PC/MM but without the hurricane bolters. Rather have a heavy psy on the dread knight (not sure if thats the best option to be honest but S7 large blast rending sounds better than bolters to me) Going up against space wolves so ill be sure to post how it performs.

**Kirasu**

Hurricane bolters are pretty good now tho, I wouldn't discount them so quickly. For a relatively minimal amount of points you get 12 twin-linked S5 shots a turn and since you're a flyer you probably can stay within 12".

Also they are great vs other flyers.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Messy0 wrote:
Getting Ready for my game now at my local meta. Im going to go for the gunship approach with PC/MM but without the hurricane bolters. Rather have a heavy psy on the dread knight (not sure if thats the best option to be honest but S7 large blast rending sounds better than bolters to me) Going up against space wolves so ill be sure to post how it performs.

You are not going to get a good general feel for the Plasma Cannon though agaisnt Wolves. The problem with the PC is against infantry it's good, but it can't hit flyers, so if you face some and need to shoot them down with your Raven you have only one gun to fire and all your other fire is wasted. And that's why you rarely see PCs on Ravens anymore.

As for the Heavy Psycannon, it is still a blast so not as reliable, and the rest of the army should make enough S7 rending as it is. Heavy Incinerator is better and covers something that rest of the army struggles with.

**Messy0**

I dont think he has any flyers but ill bring a few lists with me. I know he has terminators so thats whats i was brining the PC for. I think you right about the heavy psy, i was going to run it with the heavy incinerator as well

**svendrex**

There is only one unit I would ever use the Storm Raven as a transport for in the GK book.

Assault Henchmen

Paladins/Purifiers/Terminators are not great in the Raven as you want them to be shooting as much as possible.
Also they take massive damage in the event of a crash

Assault henchmen are very cheap, and have no shooting power. They are very deadly in assault, so you often only need one good charge for them to perform well. The Raven's mobility can help set up this charge.
Also, you get 3++ INV saves against the crash, and if you fail a save you only loose a 15 point model instead of a 55pt one.

That being said, most people do not ever put anything in their ravens and just use them as gunboats.

**Homeskillet**

Messy0 wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
I use mine as a gunship kitted out with multi-melta, assault cannon, hurricane bolters, and psybolt ammo. Run the raven right up to whatever heavy armor I want crushed so I can roll the extra d6 for melta. the asscannon also has a tendency to rend, getting extra penetration. Usually the army then tends to focus all their heavy weapons on the raven, leaving my foot to advance without getting too much fire. the raven still almost always survives thanks to Evade.

What are you using as you heavy weapons? Since i dont have any psyful dreads iv been relying on the DK to take out heavy armor so far, but the Las is only 1 shot so its not exactly reliable either. Have you tried using the PC/MM? The extra rending on the assault cannon could be useful but nowhere near reliable.

I run a DK as well. I mainly use the Stormraven, DK, and to some extent psycannons to crush armor. I just ran a few games with a squad of 5 Paladins (2 psycannons) with an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in TDA with a psycannon, casting Prescience. They absolutely crushed everything within 24" with (essentially) 12 twin-linked psycannon shots. I just put together another DK and actually plan on running two of them and deep strike them next to enemy armor though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
whoops, that post above should have looked like this:

I run a DK as well. I mainly use the Stormraven, DK, and to some extent psycannons to crush armor. I just ran a few games with a squad of 5 Paladins (2 psycannons) with an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in TDA with a psycannon, casting Prescience. They absolutely crushed everything within 24" with (essentially) 12 twin-linked psycannon shots. I just put together another DK and actually plan on running two of them and deep strike them next to enemy armor though.

**Messy0**

Ok so the match went very well, standard Purge the Alien dawn of war deployment. I wont give a blow by blow as this isn't a battle report but suffice to say i only lost 5 paladins from my above list at the end of the game. I was facing Dark Angles in the end with 2 assault cannon contemptor dreads with the intercept rule. The Storm Raven, armed with LC/MM did great. I managed to avoid fire from the contemptors by coming in along my board edge and using the LC range and destroyed one of the dreadnoughts on turn 2. The other was taken out by psycannons in the same turn. Other than that there wasn't anything to stop the Raven and it proceeded to take out a few terminators making its points back easily ending in a resounding win.

TBH i would have valued the hurricane bolters for infantry shooting (which i didnt take) over the under performing Heavy Psycannon. Contemptor dreads are armor 13 and are pretty tough with a 5++ so im pretty happy with how the Storm Raven did. I didn't use it as a transport and instead deepstriked in my paladins and Draigo and used the Storm Raven exclusively as a gunship which i agree is now the best way to use it. Very little can take out 5 paladins and Draigo and even less will be willing to charge them, especially with 10 other paladins advancing to worry about.

Personally I think when I finally get another Dread Knight ill leave the Storm Raven for 2000pt games. Although it was very useful and did exactly what i wanted it to do i feel you can get much more bang for your buck from another DK. But then again that all depends on what your playing against and how much armor and flyers they are fielding. Overall i was pretty happy with the Storm Ravens performance.

I totally forgot to try out the mindstrike missiles, would have been great to hit his libby with that. Anyone had any experience with other loadouts?

**sudojoe**

Pretty much sums up what I put down here on the other discussion under fast attack section:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/460371.page

Copy pasted here for sake of easier finding.

Storm Raven - really buffed and making us change the loadout. HB + AC + hurricane bolters and psybolt will make it tear apart other air units as well as mow down infantry. Zooming makes it difficult to aim sometimes but the turret at least can rotate around on top. Mindstrike missles are very good still. Personally I still like mine as MM + LC turret to keep it cheap but I can see me taking out the LC turret to get the assault cannon + psybolts and hurricane bolters when points allow. (personal build MM + AC + HB with psybolts, or just MM + LC in tank hunter mode when points are at a premium and I want to keep the bird alive by staying out of range)

For old time's sake, the shrouding liby + flatout trick still works. You still get 4+ for going flat out and stealth makes it a 3+ BUT, you can't power of the machine spirit fire something anymore. No more both shooting and going fast anymore. You can alternatively give yourself a Jink move for a 5+ cover when you "evade" but you do then end up shooting just snap shots. This can still be buffed with the shrouding of course to a 4+ cover. With everything twin linked, you'll still be looking at 30% hit rates.

Hover mode so far has been kind of meh for me. I basically trade hard to hit for an AV 12 bunker. I am now a fast skimmer which means again I can only move 6' and fire 2 weapons at full BS (with PoTMS) or go 12' and fire off just the PoTMS with rest as snap shots (Not that terrible with hurricane bolters but you risk getting charged). Fast doesn't really help me as much anymore since I don't necessarily want to go flat out since I can't shoot at all. (you just get to go further in the flat out move - think of it as running for your tanks). Also with the loss in V1.1 of sky fire in hover mode, this one really sucks and should only be considered if you are disembarking troops or going for a last turn shot. Use with caution! The str 10 hits on passengers also really sucks but due to the codex rules for the dreadnaught being carried, he'd only get a str 4 hit on rear armor so it's still somewhat safe to carry some sort of assault dreadnaught. Flamernaught possibly? (flamer + Heavy flamer arm and psyflame ammo!)

Ideally, Hover is just to get yourself repositioned and stay on the board. So far I've mostly stuck to 6' moves to retain some usability. With the recent updates to shadow skies, they now get to properly disembark if going over 6' which is nice (like it should have been for the past 3 months!)

Just be careful of the movement restrictions and how expensive they are. Also, even without flight mode, they still get a 5+ jink move though you can't shoot (cept power of the machine spirit) Personally I like flying them off the table and then come in again elsewhere but not always a good idea as you are losing alot of points off the table and may only end up with 2-3 turns of shooting.

As a dedicated anti-air unit, the raven excells. Just take a look at the other options available to you:

For a squad of 10, shooting 20 shots, you can get 38.66% of a wreck off on AV 11. If you are shooting at a Jink'ing skimmer, that's cut down to 18.13% wreck.

Vs shooting at a flier - 1.72% of a wreck, if they Jink, that's cut down to 0.57% wreck.

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Not very good odds :/

Bottom line though, good chance or at least decent of wrecking a rhino in a single round.

Just for comparison - for that 20 points, you can get say get 2 hunter killer missles for your anti-tank - and then get roughly 7.27% of a wreck for 2 shots with jink/5+ save. or 10.80% without a cover save.

Vs flier - 2.76% of wreck for those same 2 shots. Down to 1.84% to wreck with jink save.

Overall, pretty decent investment for a 20 point investment at 10man shooting 20 shots.

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The break even point appears (where you tie with the 2 hunter killer missles) - on non-fliers (damn fliers lol) is around 9 to 10 shots fired (so 5 man or 6 man with a psycannon, or 7 man with 2 psycannons if say using purifiers)

at 9 shots it's 6.89% vs 10 shots at 9.06%. With jink, it drops to 15-16 shots to break even. (so like 8 guys, or 10 guys with 2 psycannons, and less useful the more psycannons you take)

Quite interesting after running the math.

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Just for fun, Psycannons - 1 psycannon 4 shots shooting at fliers - 3.86% to destroy, 2.51% vs Jink save
2 psycannons -9.36% 5.57% with jink

Vs non-fliers:

1 psycannon - 2 shots ( assault mode) - 7.27%, vs 4.88% with jink
4 shots - 23.57% vs 12.83%
8 shots - 65.38% vs 38.91%

Psycannon vs flier (just for clarification) (AV 11) (assuming no skyfire and 5+ jink save)

4 shots - at least wreck - 2.49%
8 shots - 5.37%
16 shots - 13.26%

That's about 5% less chance as a quad gun, and you need about 4 squads of 5 man purifiers worth of psycannons to do this.

Vs AV 12 (5+ jink)

4 shots - 1.24%
8 shots - 2.63%
16 shots - 6.33%

Additonal notes: mindstrike missles are the bomb. Hitting either GK psyker squads or IG battle psyker squads can kill alot of models. Hitting GK squads (strike/terminator/purifier etc) forces a test on just one of them. Hitting IC makes it so they have to take it. Fortune does not work on ghost helms for mindstrike in case of hitting eldar. The warlocks and farseers are hit by each model. So if it clips the warlocks but miss farseer will not perils the farseer and only kill the the warlock hit by the plate. This also took a slight nerf as FnP now works on top of stuff like ghost helm to deny the perils damage.

**Grey Templar**

Don't transport anything in the Stormraven. Use it as a gunship, its too risky as a transport.

MM, assault cannon, hurricane bolters, and psybolts now and forever.

Its very good at killing infantry and vehicles, all without sacrificing effectivness at either.