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I didn't think that this belonged in the army lost but I've been thinking about ratlings in my ig I normally don't fill up any elites choices and was thinking about incorporating a few into my army, a squad or two of ratlings, then I figured three full squads of ratlings had to be worrisome that many shots infiltrated with the bs of a ratling it might not be super effective but still might be interesting to see, opinions?

Try it? I love pulling out the crazy options. It may work really well, if not, you still had a game with em and gave em a shot.

Ratlings have very low leadership and no real way to increase it outside of a Commisar Lord babysitting them. You're looking at 30 ratlings running away at the first light sneeze that comes their way.

If you keep them within 12" of your CCS and you have a banner to give them morale rerolls, they might stand their ground. That said, they'll be very situational. While a squad of 10 will cause 3-4 wounds a turn on average, thirty of them only really ends up causing a dozen wounds on a good turn. For the same points, you could be doing a lot more damage with artillery or just mobs of Guardsmen. Anti-infantry firepower isn't really a problem in IG armies as is. A squad of them is okay to plink away at certain units and hope for the occasion rend/precision shot/pin, but I wouldn't count on them.

Snipers are garbage, don't waste points on them. Pretty much any other weapon is going to be more point-efficient at killing stuff, and stormtroopers, Marbo, and FW heavy mortars are all very good uses of your elite slots.

 Peregrine wrote:
Snipers are garbage, don't waste points on them. Pretty much any other weapon is going to be more point-efficient at killing stuff, and stormtroopers, Marbo, and FW heavy mortars are all very good uses of your elite slots.

i highly beg to differ, snipers are not garbage if used properly, they arent meant to kill off whole units, just enough of them to make the unit go to ground, like my strategy for them: snipers shooting at devastators or long fangs to pin them so they arent as dangerous as if they just sit there and bang away on my terminators/tanks

 jordanis wrote:
i highly beg to differ, snipers are not garbage if used properly, they arent meant to kill off whole units, just enough of them to make the unit go to ground, like my strategy for them: snipers shooting at devastators or long fangs to pin them so they arent as dangerous as if they just sit there and bang away on my terminators/tanks

Hi. I'm a Griffon. I inflict pinning tests as well, except I'm much cheaper and I wound on a 2+ with the ability to barrage snipe. Please take me.


Anyway, depending on pinning is a plan for people who don't understand math. Getting a LD 9 unit to fail a pinning test is extremely unreliable. First you have to wound, then you have to get through the save (only 1/3 of your wounds are AP 1, and even those allow cover), then you have to get the target to fail a test with an 84% chance of success. This makes small sniper units nearly worthless at pinning, and taking lots of snipers to increase your chances means spending so many points that you could have just brought more guns and killed the target instead of pinning it.

 jordanis wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Snipers are garbage, don't waste points on them. Pretty much any other weapon is going to be more point-efficient at killing stuff, and stormtroopers, Marbo, and FW heavy mortars are all very good uses of your elite slots.

i highly beg to differ, snipers are not garbage if used properly, they arent meant to kill off whole units, just enough of them to make the unit go to ground, like my strategy for them: snipers shooting at devastators or long fangs to pin them so they arent as dangerous as if they just sit there and bang away on my terminators/tanks

Uh. Why not just buy a squad that can kill them instead.

And you play SM. SM snipers are almost mediocre, whereas guard snipers are complete and utter crap.

Its almost justifiable to use something almost mediocre. But it's utter crap to use something that is utter crap.

 TheCaptain wrote:

Uh. Why not just buy a squad that can kill them instead.

And you play SM. SM snipers are almost mediocre, whereas guard snipers are complete and utter crap.

Its almost justifiable to use something almost mediocre. But it's utter crap to use something that is utter crap.

Ratlings are cheaper than Scout Marines with sniper rifles and have a higher BS. They also have stealth by default, even if they're far less durable. I think they're actually pointed fairly well, but I wouldn't commit more than one squad of them to the field.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:

Uh. Why not just buy a squad that can kill them instead.

And you play SM. SM snipers are almost mediocre, whereas guard snipers are complete and utter crap.

Its almost justifiable to use something almost mediocre. But it's utter crap to use something that is utter crap.

Ratlings are cheaper than Scout Marines with sniper rifles and have a higher BS. They also have stealth by default, even if they're far less durable. I think they're actually pointed fairly well, but I wouldn't commit more than one squad of them to the field.

t2 with ld5 is rubbish.

Not to mention, they can't score; one of the better merits of scout snipers.

Ld 6, and i could have sworn they were T3, but being t2 changes a lot, that is crap. but snipers are longish range, they arent meant to take a lot of fire

i still maintain that the sniper weapon isnt a bad weapon, and most models that use it are at least half decent.

 Peregrine wrote:
Snipers are garbage, don't waste points on them. Pretty much any other weapon is going to be more point-efficient at killing stuff, and stormtroopers, Marbo, and FW heavy mortars are all very good uses of your elite slots.

Snipers are not as good as alot of units but they're not garbage by a long shot.
Especially with 10 Ratlings for 100pts of infiltrating denial unit

Don't forget they can snipe special weapons out of squads.

They are not good but can be used.

 jordanis wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Snipers are garbage, don't waste points on them. Pretty much any other weapon is going to be more point-efficient at killing stuff, and stormtroopers, Marbo, and FW heavy mortars are all very good uses of your elite slots.

i highly beg to differ, snipers are not garbage if used properly, they arent meant to kill off whole units, just enough of them to make the unit go to ground, like my strategy for them: snipers shooting at devastators or long fangs to pin them so they arent as dangerous as if they just sit there and bang away on my terminators/tanks

In other codexes maybe, but in the IG codex, snipers are indeed crap.

You guys get them on models that can actually take a hit and not run screaming to the hills, can score, and have a LD that isn't barely above conscripts.

We get T2, LD 6 ratlings that can barely see over most terrain objects (for example, they can't even see over an aegis defense line to shoot!) and will get wounded on 2's by pretty much every weapon in the game.

If you're wanting to snipe things with the IG codex, you need to look at our heavy support section. A colossus has double the chance of getting a "precise shot" with the scatter die, is AP 3 always, and ignores all cover, all for only 40 more points than a squad of inbred midget snipers. Not to mention frickin bolters aren't wounding it on 2's

If I was wanting to snipe anything, it'd be colossi, with griffons coming in a VERY close second thanks to their reroll ability.

Not a bad idea. I like the off the wall list that throw something out on the table that is different. What is the good about them:
1. 300 points for 30
2. Snipers are better than ever in 6th
3. Stealth (put them behind a aegis defense line, and the better BS helps the quad gun)

Bad:

1. Low leadership
2. die like anything IG
3. Suck in close combat, like, anything IG.

Run it. I run some behind my ADL, usualy 5 or six depending on points I have left over. I use dwarf thunderers for my ratlings. Cheaper that way.

Meh. They aren't complete and utter crap. Now, this is how they usually will run. They will come on the board, maybe get a few wounds on something but not too big of an effect. They get shot at, half of them die and the other half run off the board (T2, W1, and LD5 really really really suck). And if they get charged just ask your opponent if you can remove the models now and forgo the rolling as trust me they will all die a horrible horrible death.

When they DO work, they work really really well and are a steal for 100 pts for 10 (if you do run them, don't even think about taking any less than 10. Anything under that and the downsides are just wayyy too big for pretty much no positives).

They do have a place (sniping out IC's and heavy weapons in squads), and have some pretty cool fluff points (first ever recorded Tau Ethreal kill? Sure why not haha), but they are heavily overshadowed by the Imperial Guard's TANKS like the Griffon which is basically the equivalent of a Sniper Tank and gets rid of all the negatives like being killed on a 3+ by LASGUNS and 2+ by basically everything else in the game.

Overall, if you REALLY can't afford to fit any sort of Arty in your list (which is ALWAYS a good idea in a Guard list) then Dwar-RATLINGS may just be a good answer.

But really, 100 points for 10 T2 W1 LD5 Snipers (so Str X Ap 6 at 36'') who *can't see over most terrain* is a pretty meh deal compared to a 75 point Griffon which is 12/10/10 tank which shoots Str 6 Ap 4 Ordnance Large Blast Barrages at 12-48'' with rerollable Scatter Die....I know what I would take....

For any of you that are doubting my statement about whether or not ratlings can see over an Aegis defence line, look at them again some time. Mine at least can't.

They also can't see over the railings on most of the imperial ruins terrain, which makes them pretty useless there too.

I like 1 squad of 3, just to plink and be obnoxious. If they cause 1/2 wounds, they're worth it, and firing away at terminators and expensive models is a great way to warp your opponent's tactics disproportionate to the cost of the ratlings. Personally for elites I love marbo and stormtroopers-nothing else bar vendettaspam (which I am too gentlemanly to include) is as good at popping out of nowhere and beating up tanks.

Try out Ogryns instead of ratlings it gives you a chance in CC. For once unlike Ratlings which is just a few extra shots.

30 ogryn, now that is expensive. 1230s point, before you even put any HQs or troops in your army. I can imagine it doing really well in a city fight though.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
For any of you that are doubting my statement about whether or not ratlings can see over an Aegis defence line, look at them again some time. Mine at least can't.

They also can't see over the railings on most of the imperial ruins terrain, which makes them pretty useless there too.

I feel like anyone vouching for the use of them either doesn't understand their true worthlessness, doesn't care about maxing list potential, or doesn't use their models enough to know that they can't see over a high curb, let alone any walls.

I used to run a squad of 10 in the hopes that they would take down some MCs, or important characters. But in the end the always wounding on a 4+ was pretty useless. I'd rather invest my points into something more killy.