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Ok I am probably going to be fighting the Daemon Flamer army this weekend and was wonding if anyone had some tips or advice. I don't want to tailor my list since nothing is for certain, and we are playing a "friendly campaign" even though I think this guy is fielding 27 Flamers. The other guys I might be up against I am not really worried about. My list is usually...

OL w/ Gauss Immortals and a Veiltek
Wraith/Destroyerlord and Friends
Deathmarks w/ Despaitek in NS
2 squads of Tesla Immortals(one with a NS) w/ Tremorteks
small squad of Warriors with Pulsetek
small squad of Heavy Destroyers
Anni Barge
Monolith/Bullet Magnet(fluff reasons non negotiable)

One question I have is do the Flamer guys actually have Flamer Template weapons? When I tried to make them on Army Builder all I saw was like a 18" S4 AP4 Assault 3 weapon. Another one is, am I correct in that it will be a complete Deep Strike army? Are all Daemon armies Deep Strike only? I am sure other questions will pop up but this should do for now.

What points value?

The monolith is dead weight against 27 flamers. It's best use would be to bait them into destroying it.

27 flamers is less of a problem than 14 flamers and 13 screamers. Your opponent seems too focused on netlists to see the pure awesomeness of screamers. Simply charge a unit of flamers with small units (or 1 unit of wraiths). One small unit gets toasted, the other gets into CC and tarpits the screamers for the rest of the game.

Once in CC with flamers 9 of them will be really difficult to kill as it will take 27 wounds to cause 18 unsaved wounds. Don't worry about killing them if he doesn't bring screamers, just keep them tarpitted and kill the rest of his army. Without screamers he won't be able to rescue his flamers from being tarpitted.

2000pts

I don't have Army Builder at work, so what do screamers do? I am not sure if he uses them or not.

Lotsa guass flayers to about your only option other than going necron airforce (which can't be touched by the templates). Tzeentch daemons are among necrons hardest matchups in the new edition unfortunately. If you're willing to go with allies a few units of grey knights can help though you are obviously tailoring. Good luck.

 schadenfreude wrote:


27 flamers is less of a problem than 14 flamers and 13 screamers. Your opponent seems too focused on netlists to see the pure awesomeness of screamers. Simply charge a unit of flamers with small units (or 1 unit of wraiths). One small unit gets toasted, the other gets into CC and tarpits the screamers for the rest of the game.

No offense but the netlists are running both

To the OP though, nothing about 27 flamers with or without any screamers is friendly.

Ally in GK for sure. Coteaz, and strike squads IIRC.

Well my plan right now is...

1. choose a corner and deploy out maximum coherency leaving no room to deep strike behind me
2. front line the Wraiths and Monolith and maybe the small warrior squad since I figure the Pulsetek won't do much in this matchup
3. after the Daemon Deepstrike use my Monolith, my 2 Night Scythes, and Veiltek to bust out and make it to objectives

Think this is a decent plan?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 schadenfreude wrote:


27 flamers is less of a problem than 14 flamers and 13 screamers. Your opponent seems too focused on netlists to see the pure awesomeness of screamers. Simply charge a unit of flamers with small units (or 1 unit of wraiths). One small unit gets toasted, the other gets into CC and tarpits the screamers for the rest of the game.

No offense but the netlists are running both

To the OP though, nothing about 27 flamers with or without any screamers is friendly.

Ally in GK for sure. Coteaz, and strike squads IIRC.

Don't own any Marines even to proxy + it is a campaign trying to serve a narrative... Imperials vs Cahos vs Xenos


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
Lotsa guass flayers to about your only option other than going necron airforce (which can't be touched by the templates). Tzeentch daemons are among necrons hardest matchups in the new edition unfortunately. If you're willing to go with allies a few units of grey knights can help though you are obviously tailoring. Good luck.

I could do a transport army

OL with Immortals and Veiltek
2 warrior squads in ghost arks
Immortals in NS
Deathmarks in NS

no troops on the ground except for the wraiths?

x13rads wrote:
2000pts

I don't have Army Builder at work, so what do screamers do? I am not sure if he uses them or not.

Same T4 W2 as flamers, jetbikes instead of jump infantry. They have 3 attacks at S5 armorbane in cc and can do flyover attacks similar to reaver jetbikes.

Annihilation Barges will likely be your friend here. You don't really need to worry much about the AP- due to the Demons' invulnerable saves, but the A.Barges will deliver a lot of wounds, and volume of fire is definitely your friend.

But if you can bring in many small throwaway units, you can create a very mean one-two punch combo: send in 5x Warriors to charge, and they will get wiped out due to Overwatch. Then charge with a unit of Wraiths + D.Lord, who should be able to wreck the Flamers in CC.

Definitely send your Death + Despair unit to take out the Lord of Change or whoever his HQ is.

Oh, and I'm not entirely certain if it will work (I don't recall exactly how the Flamers' breath is described), but a C'Tan with Lord of Fire has the potential to be hilarious, as it creates a 1/6 chance for every single Flamer to be removed as a casualty each time it shoots, even if it has 2 wounds left.

Also don't forget that if your opponent neglects your monolith you can use the eternity gate on them bypassing their invuln as well as eternal warrior and just remove them if they fail a strength test.

But ya as has been stated tesla destructors are great, high volume high str is the general way to put them down. Also if you want to get real cheeky put a cryptek with that deepstrike error crystal in the units forming your perimeter to force him to take a bunch of str 8 shots immediately or to deploy out of flamer range.

Also if you do that C'tan thing you could also give him the singularity power forcing potential deepstrike mishaps around him. And your C'tan can become a true daemon troller.

If you want to win, make sure you get first and take a GK grandmaster plus two shrike squads. Scout move them forward as much as possible with the grandmaster and then have all 4 (combat squadded) units toss up their power.

Otherwise, besides going all air all the time, just don't play the fool and this 27+27 cheapness.

 juraigamer wrote:
If you want to win, make sure you get first and take a GK grandmaster plus two shrike squads. Scout move them forward as much as possible with the grandmaster and then have all 4 (combat squadded) units toss up their power.

Otherwise, besides going all air all the time, just don't play the fool and this 27+27 cheapness.

No expensive gm needed.

Coteaz + immotekh. Seize on a 4+ with a reroll. Go 1st 7 out of 8 games.

Turn 1 shunt with interceptors and warpquake with interceptors and a strike squad. Done....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Annihilation Barges will likely be your friend here. You don't really need to worry much about the AP- due to the Demons' invulnerable saves, but the A.Barges will deliver a lot of wounds, and volume of fire is definitely your friend.

But if you can bring in many small throwaway units, you can create a very mean one-two punch combo: send in 5x Warriors to charge, and they will get wiped out due to Overwatch. Then charge with a unit of Wraiths + D.Lord, who should be able to wreck the Flamers in CC.

Definitely send your Death + Despair unit to take out the Lord of Change or whoever his HQ is.

Oh, and I'm not entirely certain if it will work (I don't recall exactly how the Flamers' breath is described), but a C'Tan with Lord of Fire has the potential to be hilarious, as it creates a 1/6 chance for every single Flamer to be removed as a casualty each time it shoots, even if it has 2 wounds left.

Breath of chaos isn't a flame weapon. It's a template, but it's not described as fire and can be anything from nurgle filth, a cone of acid or ice, Justin Bieber "music", or just raw chaos energy that causes enemies to mutate into something useless.

Wraiths only take 1 wound per 3 flamers, so charging 9 of them will usually only kill 1.5 wraiths, not to much to worry about. On the other hand units without an invo just take 9 wounds.

A lord of change or fateweaver are flying mc, going to have to dakka them down with tesla.

schadenfreude wrote:A lord of change or fateweaver are flying mc, going to have to dakka them down with tesla.

Nah. It's even easier than that. As I said, Deathmarks will do the trick very nicely. The Hunters From Hyperspace rule will allow them to always hit and wound on a 2+, even against Flying Monstrous Creatures (specific > general) so they'll make quick work of the HQ.

EDIT: fixed quote weirdness

 azazel the cat wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:A lord of change or fateweaver are flying mc, going to have to dakka them down with tesla.

Nah. It's even easier than that. As I said, Deathmarks will do the trick very nicely. The Hunters From Hyperspace rule will allow them to always hit and wound on a 2+, even against Flying Monstrous Creatures (specific > general) so they'll make quick work of the HQ.

EDIT: fixed quote weirdness

HfHS Only allows a wound on a 2+ you still have to hit normally.

 Sasori wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:A lord of change or fateweaver are flying mc, going to have to dakka them down with tesla.

Nah. It's even easier than that. As I said, Deathmarks will do the trick very nicely. The Hunters From Hyperspace rule will allow them to always hit and wound on a 2+, even against Flying Monstrous Creatures (specific > general) so they'll make quick work of the HQ.

EDIT: fixed quote weirdness

HfHS Only allows a wound on a 2+ you still have to hit normally.

I wanted to say that

Besides even if it was a 2+ to hit. You always make snapshots at FMC's.
doesn't matter as it's been stated HfHS is a 2+ to wound.