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Hi all,

I am fairly new to 40K and had a few questions regarding the value of some of the buffs I can give my Chaos Sorcerer.
In the Codex, It says I can take a Chaos Special issue gear (one being a 4+ invul save) and the other being the Dark Aura, giving me a 5+ invul save.

Is there any reason why I'd choose Dark Aura over the 4+?

Also, is it worth bulking up my HQ pieces with all sorts of buffs?

Thanks

You'd take aura to save 10pts over the sigil. This leads to your second question, I say keep units, and especially HQs, as lean as possible.

CSMs can get very expensive very quick and you need to save points everywhere you can otherwise you won't field enough models to actually have a chance of winning.

I actually use SoC with MoT for my main Sorcerer choices to get that critical 3+ invul save, generally I have one HQ on the more buffed side(warlord) and another one on the cheaper side.

It depends. Do you want to spend 40 points on a 3+ invuln save? 45 points on a chaos artefact? I think in big games, like 2k+ point games, beefing up your HQs is fine (as in over 180 points for a single HQ), but in smaller games, cheaper is better because you want to be able to field other things the serve a better purpose. I have 2 HQs, one is Huron (or counts-as Huron), and another is a 180 point Nurgle Lord.

As they said, lean is good for low points. For warlord I would keep the sigil so you're not handing your opponent the victory point right off but I'd rather save points beefing up some units for more bodies to soak wounds

Right now my army consists of:
-2Chaos Cultists (10 models apiece)
-Chosen unit (9 models)
-Chaos Raptors (5 models)
-Helbrute
-Chaos Lord
-Chaos Sorcerer
-(2 more Helbrutes are being shipped)

My problem is that my friends that I'm currently playing with. None of us have enough points to play a "proper" match.

My Roommate has the Dark Angels pieces from the Dark Vengeance starter set.
Another friend has an Eldar Battleforce.

The third friend has a Space Wolves Battleforce, 2 Razorbacks, a Predator, a Sniper squad, and 2 dreadnoughts.

The idea behind beefing up my sorcerer is that I'm anticipating that I'll fight either a lot of vehicles (IE Space Wolves or the Eldar War Serpent and/or War Walker). The only thing I really have at this point to combat a vehicle is my Helbrutes Multi-melta, and a melta-gun from my Raptors.

I figure if I beef my up my Sorc as much as possible, he could stand a viable chance against vehicles or Termies (he's got the Murder Sword right now, good idea?)



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's my Sorcerer loadout right now:
CSM Sorcerer: 165 pts.

-MoT
-2 Mastery Levels
-Veteran of Long War
-Murder Sword

1: MoT: For obvious reasons
2: Mastery levels: Being able to cast more spells seems useful
3: Veteran of Long War: I have a 2 in 3 chance of fighting Space Marines, 5 pts for that seems logical
4: Murder Sword: This seems like it would help me kill DA Terminators in the event that I had to fight them.

Yikes- only 20 t3 cultists for troops!? thats brave! keep em outa los- those guys are not so good at passing ld tests.

Hellbrutes are elites right? 3 slots of HBs. Your chosen might become csm troops them mebe?

@Ithani,

Yeah, that's all that came with the Dark Vengeance starter set, Regular CSMs aren't exactly cheap.

Yes, Helbrutes are Elite troops.

Chosen cannot become troops to my knowledge.

 Reignir wrote:
@Ithani,

Yeah, that's all that came with the Dark Vengeance starter set, Regular CSMs aren't exactly cheap.

Yes, Helbrutes are Elite troops.

Chosen cannot become troops to my knowledge.

Abbadon makes Chosen troops.

Ithani wrote:
Yikes- only 20 t3 cultists for troops!? thats brave! keep em outa los- those guys are not so good at passing ld tests.

Hellbrutes are elites right? 3 slots of HBs. Your chosen might become csm troops them mebe?

You saw the same issue I did then. I'm assuming this is mostly stuff from DV box thus 20 cultists. if you are going to use them you will need many many more and even then they are only good for backfield objective holding. I would say chosen as csm as 3 helbrutes will take up all of your elite slots but they are geared from DV for close combat which is such a waste especially in 6th. I would see if your friends would be bros enough to let you proxy them as a troop of regular csm with whatever weapons as long as you have a way of marking who is who. Are all 3 helbrues multimeltas from DV because that is also limiting.

Also, you could team a couple guys against the SW player since he has way more points.

Cultists can become surprisingly annoying to get rid of when joined up with a Chaos Lord to make them Fearless and an ADL to hide behind for a 4+ cover save.

 kcwm wrote:
Cultists can become surprisingly annoying to get rid of when joined up with a Chaos Lord to make them Fearless and an ADL to hide behind for a 4+ cover save.

Actually, I was thinking about picking up Typhus for buffing my Cultists - doesn't he have an ability where I can turn them into zombies after they're dead?

Anyway, my plan was to fill the unit full (35 total) per unit and do something like that - either make them fearless or zombies.

But back to my main point - does it make sense in my situation to be buffing the crap out of my HQ pieces?

I like buffed CSM HQs, mostly because I like the idea of CSM lords kicking the crap out of other ICs.
It fits the fluff, and there are rules that give a bonus when they do. CSM ICs are supposed to be hell on wheels, or if champions of slaanesh their hell on heels.

Its debatable if that's the best way to play, but its how I like to run mine.

 Sasori wrote:

 Reignir wrote:
@Ithani,

Yeah, that's all that came with the Dark Vengeance starter set, Regular CSMs aren't exactly cheap.

Yes, Helbrutes are Elite troops.

Chosen cannot become troops to my knowledge.

Abbadon makes Chosen troops.

Yes, I checked in my Codex. My mistake, thanks for the correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 labmouse42 wrote:
I like buffed CSM HQs, mostly because I like the idea of CSM lords kicking the crap out of other ICs.
It fits the fluff, and there are rules that give a bonus when they do. CSM ICs are supposed to be hell on wheels, or if champions of slaanesh their hell on heels.

Its debatable if that's the best way to play, but its how I like to run mine.

Yeah, I tend to agree. As I've mentioned, I'm a bit of a noob, but I'm really coming to appreciate how awesome it is that two people can play the same faction and have such drastically different play styles.

 Reignir wrote:
Yeah, I tend to agree. As I've mentioned, I'm a bit of a noob, but I'm really coming to appreciate how awesome it is that two people can play the same faction and have such drastically different play styles.

Its one of the (many) ways that warhammer 40k is a cool f'ing game.

It's mostly about saving points.

Though one reason is LOS, if you have different invuls you must roll LOS before saves.

 Sasori wrote:

 Reignir wrote:
@Ithani,
Chosen cannot become troops to my knowledge.

Abbadon makes Chosen troops.

I assumed he meant use them as generic CSMs rather than Chosen.

Yeh i just ment proxy them as regular csm- trying to save you the dosh!

@KCWM- i often have my jugg lord walk up the map (around mdground where he can usually assault out) with a smaller squad of cultists 10-15 or so. This works well like 75% of the time as i can take the pesky cultist troops off and save the lords wounds, then i have a scoring unit (paper thin and easy to shoot off the table but you prolly wont be assaulted after my lords charged into combat). I would lean away from a defense line + lord + cultist troop. Its just to many points to justify for making the cultists useful and it forces your lord to hang around the back and sac mobility. If i wanted a ADL id prolly throw csm slannesh marked ioe at the back mabs even with a ML or something? or even a much cheaper small csm troop with icon of vengeance.

Ithani wrote:
Yeh i just ment proxy them as regular csm- trying to save you the dosh!

@KCWM- i often have my jugg lord walk up the map (around mdground where he can usually assault out) with a smaller squad of cultists 10-15 or so. This works well like 75% of the time as i can take the pesky cultist troops off and save the lords wounds, then i have a scoring unit (paper thin and easy to shoot off the table but you prolly wont be assaulted after my lords charged into combat). I would lean away from a defense line + lord + cultist troop. Its just to many points to justify for making the cultists useful and it forces your lord to hang around the back and sac mobility. If i wanted a ADL id prolly throw csm slannesh marked ioe at the back mabs even with a ML or something? or even a much cheaper small csm troop with icon of vengeance.

Why cultists? Why not just run the jugg lord with spawn, which are quicker (beasts) and provide better ablative wounding? You're limiting one of the advantages of a juggernaught - cavalry. No offence or anything, but your builds (including the deepstriking Obliterators + abby from the other thread) have very little sense to them, Ithani. CSM with MoS and IoE become very expensive for what amounts to an objective-holding unit with +1 I and FNP (of which the +1 I is wasted, since they're not going to get into combat) - Plague Marines do the job better (if you have a Nurgle lord). For the points spent on the MoS and IoE, you can bulk out the squad (or take a second) for even more wounds and firepower. You're already sitting behind 4+ ADL save, you don't need to worry -that- much about AP2/3 weaponry coming your way.

No offense taken. Except for the bit about very little sense i guess.

Ill answer the abby/oblit thang in the other thread: Anyone whos interested http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/499559.page#5170374

I have had some success with csm mos ioe with 2 plasmas and a power sword as a 10+ man squad of footsloggers. Expensive def! but they hold the midground pretty well with their survivability (buff em up to 15 man ?), scoring, high i powersword champ and the plasmas generally force the opponent to deal with them or get punished. They often get a pretty tough scoring unit in good position on the map and has created a few nice counter assaults for me. If i could id prefer plagues but i usually dont have a nurgle lord atm- if i did id prolly take typhus and just run a zombie list. Your right its a bit overkill putting them behind a ADL i myself wouldnt unless there was some specific flyer i wanted to deal with or whatever but 3+, 4+ cover and fnp... its expensive (around 230 and thats just the csm) but if it was in the midfield again i think its still a reasonable alternative csm troop in higher point games. It was just an idea... i offered smaller point fearless csm squads for lower point games if you really wanted the ADL.

One of the things i see alot of spawn/biker jug lord people doing is just charging straight up as fast as they can. This mobility is great and a awesome trick and can really catch an opponent out. Ive found that in the majority of games where ive tried it i often get a bit isolated and make 1 combat and then get dakkad down. Ive started moving up a little slower and trying to set up combats that engage a larger portion of my army. Obviously the mobility is never a bad thing and you can always (and often should) choose not to move your max distance but i felt this mobility was a bit at odds with the rest of my army, was costing me to much and have experimented with is zerkers and cultists footslogging. In both cases if you have your cultists/zerkers getting some cover as far forward as you can in deployment with your lord slightly behind them and in t1 you move up about 8-10?" with the lord jumping through the unit and 6" with your cultists/zerkers you can have a pretty good hook on the midground and a platform to assault out of. Your lord can still assault that turn or if in the next turn it is favorable to do so leave in the movement for a full 12" and 2-12" assault. The jugg lord is pretty capable in cc for 1 turn on his own i find and you really dont sacrifice to much mobility. I have found that the bezerkers were to expensive for this job but the cheap cultists saved 1 or 2 wounds on the lords on the run up and benefited from the fearless as they did this. They often got back into the combat later supporting lord or just hung around in the midfield outa los forcing the opponent to waste someones valuable shots on these guys- i can tell you theres rarely anyone to assault them . Maybe not tip top optimized but viable at least...

I think k or unmarked bikers are a bit of a p waste (each to his own) and if i was trying to make a competitive list with a csm jug lord i think spawn are a great delivery system if you can afford to have him charge up on a flank and have another powerful unit/s somewhere to defend your main force. The op has cultists, i was suggesting ways ive found their useful in relation to escorting lords (on jug or not). Im not sure a top tier discussion is the aim of the day for a player who is new to the game and has just bought the box set (i assume he wants to use said models).

And actually im hoping it is a long time before csm is completely figured out to the point where anyone can authoritatively say no thats wrong about specifics. And until then i wouldn't say your builds lack sense to anyone (at least without having a conversation with them beforehand).

My codex hasnt arrived yet, how does that plauge zombie thing work? Do they start the game as them or I saw earlier someone mentioned after they're dead. like holding an objective, get whiped out and come back as zombies. because the latter would make them a must have.

Exalbaru wrote:
My codex hasnt arrived yet, how does that plauge zombie thing work? Do they start the game as them or I saw earlier someone mentioned after they're dead. like holding an objective, get whiped out and come back as zombies. because the latter would make them a must have.

You take Typhus as a HQ, and then at the beginning of the game nominate which Cultist units you want to be Plague Zombies. The Zombies cannot take any kind of upgrades.


They don't come back as zombies, after regular cultists die, as awesome as that would be.

that would be amazing, do they have any bonuses or just cultist ws? any special rules?

Exalbaru wrote:
that would be amazing, do they have any bonuses or just cultist ws? any special rules?

They Gain Fearless, FNP and Slow and Purposeful. They can't purchase any options however, and count armed only with a single close combat weapon.

sounds worth it to me, are they still scoring troop units?

Exalbaru wrote:
sounds worth it to me, are they still scoring troop units?

Yes, they are still scoring Troops.