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Ok first any tactics for death company? Second, how should I use sternguard without a droppod? And how I use vanguard veterans in blood angels so descent of the angels and humpbacks AND and and what should I put on them

Thanks

Tactics for DC: leave them on the shelf

Tactics for vanguard: leave them on the shelf

Tactics for sternguard: depends what you arm them with, but they are too pricey to be a suicide unit. So be careful where you drop them and give them lots of fire support and/or backup.

I would ignore Martel as the only person I have seen on dakka that hates DC. I don't think he knows how to use them. I would read over the BA tactics thread. Probably on page 2 on 40k tactics.

Many ways to run DC.

All of them should include at least one thammer/pfist

You can do 2cc or bolters, but if you run a chappy with them run the 2cc.

One power weapon is optional but again, depends on targets.

Drop pod, Stormraven, Land raider, or Rhino/razorback, all work depending on the role you use them for.


Vanguard, just try to keep them cheap, maybe 1-2 storm shields, meltabombs on 1-2 guys, you already get a free PW on the sarge.

Could de-jump them, use them as a counter-assault unit in rhinos/raiders.

Sternguard are whatever you need them to be. I would recommend looking at everything else in your army, and outfit them to plug any weaknesses it may have.

They will do anything you want them to.

I know how to use them fine. It's just that most of the people I play with know how to counter them. Ignore me at your own peril. And I'm not the only one on Dakka who has came to this conclusion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Someone else just posted this on another thread:

"DC die just as easly as normle Assault marines, but cost alot more for them, I dont see them being worth the points. I play agenst BA and the guy always uses DC kitted out with jump packs a thunder hammer and pw weapons
I just easly shoot him down every time.

They are just too expensive"

Only one am I? He's exactly right. They are no better defended than a regular ASM schlub with a priest buddy. They don't score. They have awkward/expensive mobilization options. They *must* assault to be good. My question is why do people like them?

Martel732 wrote:

Only one am I? He's exactly right. They are no better defended than a regular ASM schlub with a priest buddy. They don't score. They have awkward/expensive mobilization options. They *must* assault to be good. My question is why do people like them?

Seconded. DC are pretty useless, they are so easily hard countered and being t4, 3+, FNP make good pickings for most heavy weapons. When I play BA with guard, the DC are a minor annoyance that take a turn or two of battle cannon or demolisher cannon fire to remove completely. Similarly, they're just a target for my LFs when I play wolves. They just cost too many points for how easily they are killed.

Why do people take them? The fluff is kinda cool if you're into maniacs I guess. They're easier to paint than the rest of the BA.

Vanguard Vets have one use only, tying up Dev squad or equivalents. They're too expensive to assault a tank, but holding up a heavy weapons squad for a turn or two isn't terrible. Just don't put any upgrades on them, using a 5/6 man unit.

Sternguard are awesome...if you play Codex: Space marines. Not being able to combat squad them upon arrival really makes the BA version a hell of a lot weaker: They can only shoot one target, and are only 1 target to shoot at. C:SM do sternguard better.

I guess I just don't count on facing devs. I like all comers lists. I see the utility in running 5-6 with jump pack only. It's just dumb that they cost so much we have to run them naked and only assault certain things to make them worthwhile.

Martel732 wrote:
I guess I just don't count on facing devs. I like all comers lists. I see the utility in running 5-6 with jump pack only. It's just dumb that they cost so much we have to run them naked and only assault certain things to make them worthwhile.

BA player has used them to assault my guard blobs before, or assaulting broadsides, devs, long fangs, tyrant guard. Pretty much any unit that likes to sit back and shoot. It's a decent tactic, but when people start throwing special weapons on the VVs they have trouble making their points back, or do their job too well and blow through the squad they charged in one turn leaving them open for return fire.

I guess I'm not a good BA then, because I'd rather lob whirlwind fire at the blobs. Or fragnoughts. At least those add to armor saturation. I fully realize, though, I'm going to lose 7/10 games to guard. The IG is really nasty.

Martel732 wrote:
Ignore me at your own peril.

This made me laugh.

Lets agree to disagree. DC are good cheap. They attract A LOT of attention, my 250~ DC drop pod squad never fails to clear 500 points of enemy dead models. Lets also face the fact that BA are falling behind in the competative department. Seeing the point reductions across the board for DA give me hope for cheaper DC in the future. That being said I try to get at least 55 marine bodies on the table at 2k points. I keep my BA as cheap as possible to get enough bodies, but with the new DA codex I think BA will become allies.

Who the hell lets DC kill *500* points of models? Especially foot slogger DC? Who are you playing against?

If by a lot of attention, you mean the same attention it takes to cripple a regular squad of ASM? Or counter assaulting them with about what I'd counter assault a 10 man ASM squad with? I think your opponents are not reacting properly.

Evidently you haven't really been paying attention to my posts. I currently rank the BA codex as the 3rd worst in the game. Obviously, such a ranking is not exact and I'm sure many will disagree, but it does show that I'm aware of the the "death of a 1000 little nerfs" that has hit the BA.

As I already said I put my DC in a drop pod. So yes they foot slog, but I get to choose where they start. The BA codex is not 3rd worst. It is middling, but things are not as bad as you say they are.

Well for disclosure, I rank only Black Templars and Sisters below them. I can't honestly put them above any other codex in 6th. The BA suffer from all the nerfs to assault, and then their actual assaults are nerfed on top of it. And they pretty follow Codex Astartes, unlike the Space Puppies or CSM. Things are pretty bad against players who know what to do with the other codices.

I run my BA counter to most people. I use a static gun line element and a deep striking element and no vehicals. Catches a lot of people off guard when they are expecting assault marines and vindicator. I do have assault marines but they are more distractions/ objective grabbers. I've also been trying out Sangunary guard lately and one squad of them is pretty decent and can take some decent punishment with a priest attached.

I use mobile guns and ASM only as counter attackers and assaulters-in-being to keep stuff away from my tanks. However, my bikes and attack bikes can do nontrivial damage in assaults as well as shooting. BA bikes are quite good, but not enough to make up for our other problems. Sometimes I use an aegis line as a hard point, sometimes I'm completely mobile. But I often use mobility to run away and shoot more. It pains me, but the BA just don't play the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking about it, the BA and Eldar codices both have a lot of problems now. I still give a slight edge to Eldar because of their psyker defense and more effective power units.

I tabled my last eldar opponent.

Thanks guys for the feedback I was just wondering ill great my DC as a combat squad nao. Give my sternguard some combi weapons and then maybe change my VV into assault marines I don't think BA are bad but they were nerfed you can still use them if you know what to do. I want to see the new hardcover BA codex as they will hopefully make some changes, otherwise if it stays the same ill go back to my nids and wait for their hardcover and if that's bad, I got no where else to go

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I tabled my last eldar opponent.

So? I tabled a DE player a couple of weeks ago, but that doesn't mean the DE aren't a better overall list. Anectodal evidence is not true evidence. The performance of the codices would have to be integrated across many trials.