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With your help I want to find the Most Powerful CC Unit in all of Non-apocalypse 40k that be brought legal in the FOC with allies so here are the rules
1. Points are Unlimted but please show them
2. Must be 1 Unit but this unit can be joined by as many Independent Characters as you can get in the FOC and from allies
3. Forgeworld models are allowed
4. No Apocalypse units

I will start it of with this example for the Blood Angels

Commander Dante 225p
Astorath the Grim 220p
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost 150p
30 Death Company 600p
30 Thunder hammers 900p
30 Jump packs 300p
9 Sanguinary Priests 450p
9 Power fists 225p
9 Jump packs 225p
Total 3295p

On charge this is
42 S4 I10 AP- Hammer of Wrath attacks
5 S5 I6 AP3 re-rolling to hit and wound Attacks (Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost)
4 S6 I5 AP3 re-rolling to hit Attacks (Astorath the Grim)
5 S5 I1 AP2 re-rolling to hit Attacks (Commander Dante)
27 S9 I1 AP2 re-rolling to hit Attacks (Sanguinary Priests)
120 S9 I1 AP2 re-rolling to hit and wound Attacks (Death Company)

Thats not even with allies so have a go and have fun

Dante's attacks are AP2 I1, he has an axe.

Ninja Bob wrote:
4. No Apocalypse units

Total 3295p

I think you're missing something here.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Dante's attacks are AP2 I1, he has an axe.

Fixed

In a non apocalypse game though, this unit would be about as effective as a few expendable assault squads to tie it up though.

If we're speaking theoretical power, a Furioso Dreadnought with Blood Talons (can't remember exact cost). With a potential of N+1 attacks it kinda beats everything else.

I'm thinking Paladins might be more effective; ten Paladins with two Librarians is about half the price of that blob of Death Company, and they're hitting with (assuming Brotherhood Banner, Hammerhand from the Terminators, Quicksilver and Might of Titan from Librarian A, and Precognition and Misfortune from Librarian B) 48 S6 Force Weapon attacks at I10 and WS5, plus sixteen psycannon shots and twelve S5 storm bolter shots on the way in, plus rerolls to hit and wound, plus rerolling successful saves on the target.

Sure, they can beat that unit of 30 DC. But thats not really what is important.

We are looking at the most powerful CC unit possable within the FoC and the 30 DC with dual TH is top dog.


Realistically, the 10 Paladin unit is going to appear on the table before the DC unit(as the DC clock in at over 3000 points) so it may be the most powerful CC unit from a practical stand point. Although it too has a hard counter in the form of TH/SS terminators.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Sure, they can beat that unit of 30 DC. But thats not really what is important.

We are looking at the most powerful CC unit possable within the FoC and the 30 DC with dual TH is top dog.


Realistically, the 10 Paladin unit is going to appear on the table before the DC unit(as the DC clock in at over 3000 points) so it may be the most powerful CC unit from a practical stand point. Although it too has a hard counter in the form of TH/SS terminators.

Actually, according to mathhammer, the unit AnomanderRake listed would devastate a unit of TH/SS terminators, without any shooting.

That said, the unit would still be better off just laying back and shooting anyway.

'Nid Warriors would have a good crack at that Death Company, even with its absurd price.

9 Warriors + 2 Tyranid Prime- Scything Talons, Bonesword & Lashwhip, Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands.
Clocks in at around 750pts, which is less than a quarter of your lot.

Going to be cheeky and claim the charge bonus for myself. Yes you are faster, but this is (relatively) cheap and I'm going to take what I can.


4A each Warrior, at I5, WS6, S5/Poison, Ignore Saves, Reroll 1's to hit and a chance at ID on each guy. The Primes are much the same, except with 5A and S6.

Lashwhips mean I go first. The 2 Primes should handily cough up 7 wounds between them. The Warriors then pile on a staggering 25, for a total of 32 wounds on the charge.

Ignore saves, and roughly 1/3rd of those go on to ignore your fancy FNP. Total count is going to be a nice ~25 fatalities.

Of course the Thunder Hammers then land and splatter everyone in a ID-frenzy, but they had a good run.

Necrons might be able to join in on this.

One huge Royal court.

Overlord fully decked out. +2/++3 MSS, Orb, Arrow, Phylactery and the Labyrinth. 270

Nenemsor Zahandrek to grant FC/CA and denied the FC/CA and makes WarScythes S8! Plus his buddy Obyron. 185 + 160

10 Lords with +2/++3, MSS, and the Labyrinth. 1400


That's 38 S7/S8(FC) AP1 I2 and 4 S5 AP- attacks on the charge (+6 max if Obyron gets his Cleaving Counter blow off),
29 attacks when being changed.
11 MSS
11 Labyrinths
19 Wounds
WS4
The whole unit is T5, get into base to base with and have to take a leadership test on 3D6 or hit your own unit and a one use only wound test with the Labyrinith (Roll under or current wounds or die with no saves of any kind) add a +4 EL roll

2015 total.

I'd say that a huge mob of boyz supported by other Ork close combat heavies would probably be better than this, but I'm honestly too lazy to calculate points.

I would say something along the lines of gray knights, 2 characters, 10 paladins and a blood angel allies.
Not sure how the priests work but could they ally with the paladin squad? Throw in a BA character and you have a dam strong unit.
(Possibly deepstriking if all terminator/jumppack.)

Ninja Bob wrote:
With your help I want to find the Most Powerful CC Unit in all of Non-apocalypse 40k that be brought legal in the FOC with allies so here are the rules
1. Points are Unlimted but please show them
2. Must be 1 Unit but this unit can be joined by as many Independent Characters as you can get in the FOC and from allies
3. Forgeworld models are allowed
4. No Apocalypse units

I will start it of with this example for the Blood Angels

Commander Dante 225p
Astorath the Grim 220p
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost 150p
30 Death Company 600p
30 Thunder hammers 900p
30 Jump packs 300p
9 Sanguinary Priests 450p
9 Power fists 225p
9 Jump packs 225p
Total 3295p

120 S9 I1 AP2 re-rolling to hit and wound Attacks (Death Company)

A few things:

1) The DC can have 2 TH each, so 30 DC on the charge will have 150 TH attacks if they all survive.

2) The Jump Packs cost 450 points for the 30 DC, not 300.

Id like to throw in a CSM powerKhorneblob that me and my friend made.

Abaddon - 265
Kharn - 160
Khorne Lord with Axe of Blind Fury - 115
Khorne Lord with Black Mace - 125
20x Khorne Bezerkers w/ Chain Axes - 470
1135 points total

on charge with 6s on Daemon Weapon rolls:
Abaddon throws 13 (4+weapon+rage) S5 AP2
Kharn throws 6 (3+rage+pistol) S7 AP2
AoBF Lord throws 12 (3+weapon+rage+pistol) S5 AP2
BM Lord throws 12 (3+weapon+rage+pistol)S4 AP4 tougness-test-or-explode-and-kill-your-mates
Zerkers throw 101 (2 [3 on champ] +20x Rage+20x Pistols) S4 AP4

for a total of 144 attacks. Might not go through much armour, but it will make a good mess of that DC blob

 IHateNids wrote:
Id like to throw in a CSM powerKhorneblob that me and my friend made.

Abaddon - 265
Kharn - 160
Khorne Lord with Axe of Blind Fury - 115
Khorne Lord with Black Mace - 125
20x Khorne Bezerkers w/ Chain Axes - 470
1135 points total

on charge with 6s on Daemon Weapon rolls:
Abaddon throws 13 (4+weapon+rage) S5 AP2
Kharn throws 6 (3+rage+pistol) S7 AP2
AoBF Lord throws 12 (3+weapon+rage+pistol) S5 AP2
BM Lord throws 12 (3+weapon+rage+pistol)S4 AP4 tougness-test-or-explode-and-kill-your-mates
Zerkers throw 101 (2 [3 on champ] +20x Rage+20x Pistols) S4 AP4

for a total of 144 attacks. Might not go through much armour, but it will make a good mess of that DC blob

I think that is too many HQ choices for a normal game (four not two) and the kind of units seen in normal games.

Also Abbadon and Kharn are good but not that good. One Swarmlord could destroy the characters here by issuing challenge after challenge and taking them down one at a time.

well, this is his idea mainly, and the Swarmlord would be taken out throught weight of attacks once all the characters were dead. after all, he would be challenged by the zerker champ first, while th Zerks and HQs ripped apart whatrever Swarmface was accompanied with

Nine Tyranid warriors with boneswords, lashwhips, scything talons, toxin sacs and adrenal glands with a Prime biomorphed the same would deal with the rest.

My point is though that the Swarmlord could take out the most powerful elements of this unit leaving only Berserkers and the Berserkers may still not beat the Swarmlord.

For one round, 10 Deathwing Knights 470 (Smite mode)
Asmodai 140
Ezekiel, (Mind Worm, Misfortune, Prescience) 145

Standing next to a DW Comm squad with banner for +1 A
Assuming the charge,

40 S10 AP2 Hatred attacks
Asmodai with either 5 S4 AP- Instant Death Hatred or 5 S6 AP4 Hatred

Ezekiel with 4 S4 AP3 Force Rerolling everything
All saves must be rerolled

I get the feeling that all but the csm character horde of impossible would get mulched by 3 prescience Blood talon furioso's

its actually possible with 6th ed, with double FOC.

 Arthas367 wrote:
I get the feeling that all but the csm character horde of impossible would get mulched by 3 prescience Blood talon furioso's

The Paladins will just laugh off the Blood Talons.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Arthas367 wrote:
I get the feeling that all but the csm character horde of impossible would get mulched by 3 prescience Blood talon furioso's

The Paladins will just laugh off the Blood Talons.

I10, S7, 2D6 for armour penetration for every model in the unit? Yeah, those Furiosos wouldn't stand a chance.

 Arthas367 wrote:
I get the feeling that all but the csm character horde of impossible would get mulched by 3 prescience Blood talon furioso's

I think the Swarm Lord would have a good chance.

Ninja Bob wrote:

Commander Dante 225p
Astorath the Grim 220p
Lemartes, Guardian of the Lost 150p
30 Death Company 600p
30 Thunder hammers 900p
30 Jump packs 300p
9 Sanguinary Priests 450p
9 Power fists 225p
9 Jump packs 225p
Total 3295p

With no points limit, why not two Thunder Hammers for each DC marine? It's +30 attacks, after all.

GK Libby with every power
Xenos Inqusitor with rad and psy grendes
Three tech marins with warding staves and grenades
12 Deathcult assasins

That unit would toast the above death cult.

Take your unit there and throw in Logan Grimnar and Ragnar Blackmane. I believe the two armies are battle brothers so you benefit from the special rules lulz!

GKs dont have BBs do they?

Nope, no buddys

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
Necrons might be able to join in on this.

One huge Royal court.

Overlord fully decked out. +2/++3 MSS, Orb, Arrow, Phylactery and the Labyrinth. 270

Nenemsor Zahandrek to grant FC/CA and denied the FC/CA and makes WarScythes S8! Plus his buddy Obyron. 185 + 160

10 Lords with +2/++3, MSS, and the Labyrinth. 1400


That's 38 S7/S8(FC) AP1 I2 and 4 S5 AP- attacks on the charge (+6 max if Obyron gets his Cleaving Counter blow off),
29 attacks when being changed.
11 MSS
11 Labyrinths
19 Wounds
WS4
The whole unit is T5, get into base to base with and have to take a leadership test on 3D6 or hit your own unit and a one use only wound test with the Labyrinith (Roll under or current wounds or die with no saves of any kind) add a +4 EL roll

2015 total.

You can't join 2 Royal Courts together. You can have one member from each Royal Court join a unit but 2 Royal Courts composed of members that are not joining units can not join together to make a single Royal Court.

Best you could do is
Zahndy
Oby
Destroyer Lord
5 Lords
5 Crypteks

Still would be pretty awesome if you got to shoot all the Cryptek goodies off before charging in. Pluse Zahndy strips all of the listed special rules from a unit that are on the list. And PE on the whole squad.