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Not sure where to put this, honestly.

I have only been to one tournament previously and did not have the model in question created at the time. Not only was that Midwest Massacre, but it was also my first tournament. Despite not doing so well and having driven six hours for it, I really enjoyed it and planned to go to future tourneys.

Fast forward to now, where I have put much time and effort into creating a masterpiece of a model - one truly suited for the role of Warlord to my custom warband, the Bilious Prophets. He is as follow:

Plague Lord Pater Bilis - w/ MoN; Palanquin; Sigil of Cor; Power Sword; Power Lance; Vet of LW @ 180pts

Being that placed on a Palanquin makes him a 5W model and Very Bulky, I decided that a MC base was appropriate. So, I built the model mostly from scratch and GS Fu to fit the base. Also, with utility and lack of magnetizing skills in mind, I modeled him and the Palanquin to also have counts-as Lightning Claw and Power Fist. Before anyone gets on me about that, I know and intend to only ever follow the allotted number of weapons that can legally be used.

So, with all of this said, if I made it clear what I know not to do, what is counts-as'd and as long as it is pointed out properly:

1. Is this model legal for tournament standards even if I did make it clear?

2. Is one allowed to model something with multiple weapons, just as long as only the ones being currently used are pointed into the cost?

If you'd modelled him with two power weapons it'd be fine. The problem is, lightning claws and power fists are not power weapons as such, so I'd say it's not legal. The MC base is fine though, as if anything that's a disadvantage (easier to shoot). Best bet would be to model completely WYSIWYG, so tear off the arms. Lances are easy to convert, and swords are really common. I'd play against it so long as wargear was made clear, but tournament rules may not allow it.

I kind of figured that it would probably be illegal for tourney play. Well, maybe I would be able to take it so others may admire the sheer effort taken to make the bastard.

If I hadn't already sculpted around the arms and painted the lord himself, I would chop away. Alas, that is the sadness I am currently faced with. The unit he attaches to has limited means of dealing with TEQ or vehicles, so that was one reason why I modelled utility into the thing.

Soon, I will post pictures into the gallery, even though it's a WIP. But one that is about 80% finished.

Thanks for the reply.

In friendly games, I'm sure it would be no issue.

As far as tournaments go, clear it with the TO. I personally wouldn't have an issue with it. If I remember correctly, an edition(maybe two) ago, modelling a larger base was allowed anyways. Look at the sizes of the other Chaos mounts. the Juggernaut would almost certainly go on a MC base. Steed of Slaanesh would go on a cavalry base. Without guidance(i.e. a model), GW kind of leaves us to our own devices on this.

For the extra stuff on the model, I'd advise you make sure your opponent is clear on what exactly the unit has. Also clear it with the TO, but that should be the first step. Different events have different levels of WYSIWYG, so it's important to establish what will fly and what won't from the start.

I second the clearing it with the TO. I wouldn't jump straight to thinking you won't be able to use it. In my experience, extensive conversions and well painted models tend get more leeway with wysiwyg than primer grey models put together with a hot glue gun.

@k0v - Good point on the mounts. I didn't quite think of that. Well, at least that's settled. All it would get down to is what's allowed at each tourney.

@CrowSplat - That's also a really good point. I was just jumping the gun.

Thanks for the replies!

It's not okay in friendly games, none of our games are friendly! Two men enter one man leaves!!!!!! Just kidding man Having seen Gorandius's chaos lord, I really feel the rule of cool will help your case out a lot. You ought to post some pictures of him on this thread!

It is perfectly legal to have a power fist and lightning claw on your lord. You even get +1 attack since they are both specialist weapons. Just pay the extra 10 points and do wysiwyg with the bonus now having better weapons.

Lets get a picture of it maybe?

I've had similar concerns for mounting my own Nurgle lord on a palanquin. The only model GW has which has a palanquin of nurgle are from fantasy but a direct comparrison can be made for 40k. That being said I think the smallest you could get away with would be a terminator sized base (40mm right?).

Yeah, I need to see a picture. An MC base seems over the top for a Chaos Lord.

 kronk wrote:
Yeah, I need to see a picture. An MC base seems over the top for a Chaos Lord.

Palanquins make them very bulky, larger than grotesques, chaos spawn, or terminators. That leaves dreadnaught size....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FKaos wrote:
It is perfectly legal to have a power fist and lightning claw on your lord. You even get +1 attack since they are both specialist weapons. Just pay the extra 10 points and do wysiwyg with the bonus now having better weapons.

yes powerfist and lightning claw is much better than lance and sword.

I used a glowing thunder hammer on my Chaos lord as a count as power fist. Most people get the idea pretty quickly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CrowSplat wrote:
I second the clearing it with the TO. I wouldn't jump straight to thinking you won't be able to use it. In my experience, extensive conversions and well painted models tend get more leeway with wysiwyg than primer grey models put together with a hot glue gun.

but they are a grey knights successor chapter that has hot glue in their fluff!

FKaos wrote:
It is perfectly legal to have a power fist and lightning claw on your lord. You even get +1 attack since they are both specialist weapons. Just pay the extra 10 points and do wysiwyg with the bonus now having better weapons.

Yes, this. Why would you want to give him a lance anyway?

 Crimson wrote:

FKaos wrote:
It is perfectly legal to have a power fist and lightning claw on your lord. You even get +1 attack since they are both specialist weapons. Just pay the extra 10 points and do wysiwyg with the bonus now having better weapons.

Yes, this. Why would you want to give him a lance anyway?

Having both a lance and a sword means he has two CCWs, and attacking with the lance on the charge means his attacks are resolved at +1 S and AP3, while retaining the Chaos Lords high initiative. He then uses the sword to attack in later assault phases, again retaining the Lords initiative while still striking at AP3. I've actually had Gorandius's Palanquin Lord take out 5 or 6 tactical marines on the charge. The configuration is quite effective against MEQ, put does admittedly lack in ability against Terminators.

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

FKaos wrote:
It is perfectly legal to have a power fist and lightning claw on your lord. You even get +1 attack since they are both specialist weapons. Just pay the extra 10 points and do wysiwyg with the bonus now having better weapons.

Yes, this. Why would you want to give him a lance anyway?

Having both a lance and a sword means he has two CCWs, and attacking with the lance on the charge means his attacks are resolved at +1 S and AP3, while retaining the Chaos Lords high initiative. He then uses the sword to attack in later assault phases, again retaining the Lords initiative while still striking at AP3. I've actually had Gorandius's Palanquin Lord take out 5 or 6 tactical marines on the charge. The configuration is quite effective against MEQ, put does admittedly lack in ability against Terminators.

the chaos lord already has a pistol, so if you only give him a sword he still has +1 attack. So you are paying 15 points for the lance, to be +1 strength on the charge and that is it. That is not worth 15 points.

for 10 points more, he can have a lightning claw and powerfist instead of sword and lance. Rerolling to wound is better than +1 strenght on the charge. Or he can attack at str8 AP2 init 1 if he wants. MUCH better.

 Exergy wrote:

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

FKaos wrote:
It is perfectly legal to have a power fist and lightning claw on your lord. You even get +1 attack since they are both specialist weapons. Just pay the extra 10 points and do wysiwyg with the bonus now having better weapons.

Yes, this. Why would you want to give him a lance anyway?

Having both a lance and a sword means he has two CCWs, and attacking with the lance on the charge means his attacks are resolved at +1 S and AP3, while retaining the Chaos Lords high initiative. He then uses the sword to attack in later assault phases, again retaining the Lords initiative while still striking at AP3. I've actually had Gorandius's Palanquin Lord take out 5 or 6 tactical marines on the charge. The configuration is quite effective against MEQ, put does admittedly lack in ability against Terminators.

the chaos lord already has a pistol, so if you only give him a sword he still has +1 attack. So you are paying 15 points for the lance, to be +1 strength on the charge and that is it. That is not worth 15 points.

for 10 points more, he can have a lightning claw and powerfist instead of sword and lance. Rerolling to wound is better than +1 strenght on the charge. Or he can attack at str8 AP2 init 1 if he wants. MUCH better.

This exactly, forget the lance.

As for the base size though, there's no rules stipulating 'bulkiness' to base size. Specifically comparing bulky terminators to bulky jump marines for example. I think the precident of epidemus on the equivilant WFB 40mm base would be the guiding factor. Palanquin's are very bulky to represent their height/width/turn radius or whatever. A monstrous base is for things that are...monstrous. Saying that a guy who can get in a rhino with 7 other dudes would have a base the size of a hive tyrant or sentinel is a bit much. But then again, to shoot my own position out, I suppose the same thing can be said of a heavy weapons team. Those should be on a 40-50mm base imo.

Alright, everyone, I thank you all for the input. Considering how it's modeled, I will keep the sword arm for coolness' sake. I'll strap the lance across the back or something, so he can go to town when he's in a jousting or polo mood. The right hand is the fist and the palanquin itself has the lightning claw.

I'll be posting some WIP photos within the hour.

Do we have a picture? thousand words and such...

Rule of Cool usually dominates at tournaments. I trust nobody would be able to confuse your chaos lord with another model.

I suspect the weaponry may be an issue. The bits are very clearly representative of weapons with specific rules that you intend not to use, and instead wish to use them otherwise. I'd take some greenstuff and plasticard, make the fist into an arm-mounted spear (power lance), and fuse the lightning claws into one wrist-mounted blade (power sword). Then no choppy-choppy, and you're still WYSIWYG

As for the base, I believe the usual ruling is that, as long as base size doesn't directly benefit rules for the character (like Character A gets X many attacks, where X is the number of models in base contact), then it can be sized up within reason.

But like, I'd say fill the base. Nurglings holding your lord or whatever. It's one thing to have a big character mounted on a similarly big base. It's another thing to have a guardsman on a flyer base surrounded by a diorama of random stuff unrelated to his actual model.

Know what I mean?

Sorry for the delay, folks! I had trouble getting decent pictures of everything. Also, since none of the major parts and accessories are glued together and whatnot, it was a pain trying to balance everything just right so nothing would fall over for the last couple pictures.

All of the individual photos are in my gallery, but I will post the most relevant, considering they show everything in question.

 Gorandius wrote:
Sorry for the delay, folks! I had trouble getting decent pictures of everything. Also, since none of the major parts and accessories are glued together and whatnot, it was a pain trying to balance everything just right so nothing would fall over for the last couple pictures.

All of the individual photos are in my gallery, but I will post the most relevant, considering they show everything in question.

awesome !
very dynamic
I would let you play it with whatever legal load out you wanted. But yeah it is spear and sword. You could add more halberdy(BRB halberd = axe) bits to make it sword and axe, which is more useful.

Definately would let you play this regardless of kit loadout. Very cool!