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Made in ca
Lurking Gaunt





Okay so I'm having a terrible time trying to win a game with my army it just seems to fail every time I play I game. Everything gets shot to crap. I can't seem to win. Seems that everything just gets destroyed by the third turn. I'm not changing the list because It's already painted. And I'm not posting an army list for critique as it's a fluff army. II just respectfully ask for help on how to win against the horrible nerds that crunch numbers and win based on averages and billions of dice roles and cheesy fest broken armies. So I come begging for help so I don't get blasted to crap again.

So this is what I run. How do I win with pods? Also is it true that every ruin can be shot through and that cover does not exist anymore? My entire army just is a sitting duck and I lose my only tank on the first or second turn always.

It's a little upsetting because I did not think ahead and I really don't have the money to retool my whole army.

So if cover does not exist except a 5+ cover save how do I win?


HQ

Captain:
Wargear: Iron Halo, Power Armour, Thunderhammer, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak grenades.

Command Squad.
Wargear:
• Power armour
• Chainsword,
• Frag and krak grenades,
• Bolt Pistol
• Melta Gun
• Company Standard
• Power Weapon
• Combat Shield
• Narthecium
• Drop-Pod



TROOPS

Tactical Squad

Unit Composition:
• 1 Sergeant
• 9 Marines

Wargear:
• Power armour
• Boltgun
• Boltpistol
• Frag and krak grenades
• Rhino
• Missile launcher

Scout Squad 90

Unit Composition:
4 Scouts
1 Scout Sergeant

Wargear:
• Scout armour
• Sniper Rifle
• Boltpistol
• Frag and krak grenades
• Camo Cloaks


ELITES

Dreadnought

Wargear
• Multi-Melta
• Dreadnought close combat weapon
• Stormbolter
• Smoke Launchers
• Searchlight
• Drop Pod

FAST ATTACK

Assault Squads x3 Red, Green & Blue
Unit Composition:
• 1 Sergeant
• 7 Marines

Wargear:
• Power armour
• Power Fist
• Chainsword
• Boltpistol
• Flamer
• Frag and krak grenades
• Jump Packs ( Red & Green Squads have Drop Pods in place of Jump Packs)
• Melta Bombs (only for Blue Squad)


HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

1. A fundamental part of winning at the game is learning and understanding the rules. Understanding what terrain does, what cover saves are offered (4+ from ruins, not 5+), and having a basic understanding of averages so you can make basic target priority decisions are essential. You've got to do some homework here.

2. Not being willing to change your army at all makes things tough, if you've got some not-so-good units. Space Marine assault squads have been widely considered not very good for many years, and 6th hasn't really helped them. SM command squads and AC12 walkers are also not great units. When the majority of your army is comprised of not-so-good units, you're going to have an uphill struggle.

That all being said, we can still help. It will take some more information.

1. What point level/s are you typically playing at?
2. Are you using regular book missions?
3. Some more details about the terrain would be nice. Is there ANYTHING which blocks LOS on the table? There should at least be some hills and some ruin walls which actually block LOS.
4. What armies are you playing against? Can you describe any of your regular opponents' lists in any detail?
5. Would you consider making ANY changes? How about fielding the list using the Blood Angels codex, so at least your assault squads are scoring?

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in ca
Lurking Gaunt





 Mannahnin wrote:
1. A fundamental part of winning at the game is learning and understanding the rules. Understanding what terrain does, what cover saves are offered (4+ from ruins, not 5+), and having a basic understanding of averages so you can make basic target priority decisions are essential. You've got to do some homework here.

2. Not being willing to change your army at all makes things tough, if you've got some not-so-good units. Space Marine assault squads have been widely considered not very good for many years, and 6th hasn't really helped them. SM command squads and AC12 walkers are also not great units. When the majority of your army is comprised of not-so-good units, you're going to have an uphill struggle.

That all being said, we can still help. It will take some more information.

1. What point level/s are you typically playing at?
2. Are you using regular book missions?
3. Some more details about the terrain would be nice. Is there ANYTHING which blocks LOS on the table? There should at least be some hills and some ruin walls which actually block LOS.
4. What armies are you playing against? Can you describe any of your regular opponents' lists in any detail?
5. Would you consider making ANY changes? How about fielding the list using the Blood Angels codex, so at least your assault squads are scoring?


Seems that when I went to the gw store in TO I got cheated. The atmosphere in the store was was rude. Few of the guys even ignored me after saying hello directly to them. even got accused of stealing a model which fell on the floor, indirectly but it was still pretty insulting.

am new to 6th ed the game first time playing in over 5 years. I lost every game. The guys there just seemed to shoot through every ruin and said it was a 5 plus cover save. I met some nice people but for the most part creepy socially awkward nerds that seemed offended to meet a newb. Even got bitched at by the gw rep at the store for putting my shoe box full of minis on the table for some unknown reason.

Yeah the LOS seemed stupid But I just went with it cuz Im new to 6th and my experience to the game is very limited. I fought Dark eldar and IG Nothing else yet. I got decimated with zero effort.

The Dark eldar player had Eldar allies and used misfortune. Pretty much ate my army to gak.

The Imperial Guard player I fought was using some kind of forge world army list that was terribly imbalanced. 3pts per conscript. Had like a billion of them. Needless to say after my pods fell they were dead on the turn with a rule called intercept.

Is there a way to win with the pods should I retool the list to make the Assault squads regular tactical squads, in pods? I must stress that I don't have additional funds to purchase a whole new army.
I miss read the the rules about open topped vehicles and assault when I was buying the army/ painting modeling the army.

How do I win with pods?

Typically 1500 points. I'm thinking about just doing a 1000 point army to make it more balanced considering I've recently learned that assault marines are utterly garbage.

I play with Imperial Fists but I have heavily considered using a blood angels codex. I had no idea command squads suck.

And we played Dawn of war, the scouring, and some other mission with only two objectives.

I have played less then 10 games in my entire history with 40k.





This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/02/09 07:26:18


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

It always sucks to have an unfriendly and unwelcoming group, even if they actually understand the rules and aren't screwing them up like it sounds like those guys are.


Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in ca
Lurking Gaunt





 Mannahnin wrote:
It always sucks to have an unfriendly and unwelcoming group, even if they actually understand the rules and aren't screwing them up like it sounds like those guys are.



Yeah. Well It was an experiment luckily I live in a city with multiple hobby shops. I just won't be going back to the GW location.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/09 07:30:26


 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

Cool.

Edit: saw you edited more details into your earlier post. Let me work on this some more. In the meantime I'll leave this...

One neat combo one of my opponents did with assault marines last weekend was using sgts with a pair of hand flamers. He was using Blood Angels, obviously, but you could easily use BA rules for your army. Picking up some hand flamers from BA players locally or online should be really cheap, as no one used to use them, so we've all got extras. An AM squad in a pod hit turn one and immediately laid out 4 flamer templates- two and S4 from the squad, 2 at S3 from the sgt. Pretty cool.

am new to 6th ed the game first time playing in over 5 years. I lost every game. The guys there just seemed to shoot through every ruin and said it was a 5 plus cover save. I met some nice people but for the most part creepy socially awkward nerds that seemed offended to meet a newb. Even got bitched at by the gw rep at the store for putting my shoe box full of minis on the table for some unknown reason.

Yeah the LOS seemed stupid But I just went with it cuz Im new to 6th and my experience to the game is very limited. I fought Dark eldar and IG Nothing else yet. I got decimated with zero effort.

And we played Dawn of war, the scouring, and some other mission with only two objectives.

I have played less then 10 games in my entire history with 40k.


Well, after such a long break, and having accidentally selected a suboptimal army due to misunderstanding a critically-important rule, naturally you're starting at a handicap. Persistance and a willingness to learn are going to be necessary to get through this tough part and start winning. There are a lot of nuances to the game and it's even tougher when you're up against someone who's taking advantage and/or misplaying some rules. The task will be trickier if you can only play against guys who aren't helpful, but hopefully that's not the case.

LOS is "True" LOS in 5th and 6th ed. So yes, you can usually see through most terrain, and it grants a cover save for shooting across it, as long as the model taking the wound is obscured at least 25% from the perspective of at least one model in the firing unit.. Most terrain gives 5+; the most common exceptions are Ruins (4+) and hill crests (4+). There should be at least SOME terrain which actually fully blocks LOS on the table; Ruins with some solid walls on the ground floor, solid rock formations, hills 2" or taller, etc. If there isn't any, the table has bad terrain and you should (politely) require there to be more, including at least a few pieces which actually block LOS and can hide units. Otherwise the game's going to be a shooting gallery.

On the plus side, playing book missions should work pretty well for you. They're fairly straightforward, and aside from Purge the Alien, they're won by holding more objectives, not based on who does more damage. One really nice thing about 5th and 6th eds is the missions, because you can get your ass shot off and still win by having superior positioning and holding more objectives at the end. This levels the playing field a good bit when one player has a stronger army, but the other player is smart and focuses on the mission.

The Dark eldar player had Eldar allies and used misfortune. Pretty much ate my army to gak.

The Imperial Guard player I fought was using some kind of forge world army list that was terribly imbalanced. 3pts per conscript. Had like a billion of them. Needless to say after my pods fell they were dead on the turn with a rule called intercept.

That Dark Eldar/Eldar combo can be very nasty. They put out a lot of shooting, and their psychic powers can be extremely strong. One possible counter to the psychic shenanigans would be allying in a squad of SW Grey Hunters and a Rune Priest, also in a pod. The priest can cancel any psychic powers used within 24" of him on a 4+. Grey Hunters are also very good in a pod; they have bolters like Tac marines, and also BP&CCW and csn take double special weapons like assault marines.

The other solution to Dark Eldar is just generally having a lot of bodies and getting the first shot wherever you can. Most of their units are pretty fragile to shooting, and pods help you get the first shot on something before he counters, so this is a potentially winnable matchup. A lot of it is going to come down to practice and learning what the most important targets/threats are. Things you can kill or cripple reliably which are also dangerous to you.

The IG army sound like maybe Vraks Renegades? Was he rolling to find out what the LD of his units was? If it's the guys I'm thinking of they're dirt cheap and can bring a ton of heavy weapons, but they don't get all the upgrades and equipment that regular IG do, they've got a lot of guys with even lower BS than normal (like 2), and their LD is random, and a lot of squads will tend to be easy to make run if you can force morale tests. Against a really numerous guard army like this, flamer squads in pods should be able to do quite a bit of damage and likely force morale tests on multiple units. You can target a squad BEHIND the one that's right in front of you, and as long as your flamer templates can reach the back squad, and are placed so as to maximize hits on that back squad, you also can hit any intervening enemy models between you. So you can potentially hurt and/or break two (or conceivably even more, if they're really bunched up) squads at once. Also, the turn after you drop, don't be afraid to charge multiple squads at once (if they're close enough together), at least as long as you've got more than 2 or 3 marines left.

What did he have with Interceptor? Normally each unit with Interceptor can fire at one of your units that arrived from Reserve this turn. They fire at the end of your movement phase, and any weapon with Interceptor which fires on your turn isn't allowed to fire on HIS following turn. I'd be surprised if he had more than one or two things with Interceptor, although I guess he could have had several with Forge World/Imperial Armor units. The one exception to this that I can think of is Inquisitor Coteaz from the Grey Knights codex; he can give one of his units a free round of shooting in your turn at EVERY unit which arrives within 12" of Coteaz. Super nasty, but pretty easy to avoid by not dropping near Coteaz.


Is there a way to win with the pods should I retool the list to make the Assault squads regular tactical squads, in pods? I must stress that I don't have additional funds to purchase a whole new army.
I miss read the the rules about open topped vehicles and assault when I was buying the army/ painting modeling the army.

Typically 1500 points. I'm thinking about just doing a 1000 point army to make it more balanced considering I've recently learned that assault marines are utterly garbage.

I play with Imperial Fists but I have heavily considered using a blood angels codex. I had no idea command squads suck.

Yes, pods can win. Tactical squads are one option, to be able to do more damage in the shooting phase when you drop. They're also cheaper and scoring. The other option is the BA codex, which makes your Assault Marines Troops, so they can score, and gives them more weapon options. Blood Angels also have Sanguinary Priests in Elite, which are useful 1W Independent Characters who act like a suped-up Apothecary with a radius. Every BA unit that has at least one model within 6" of him gets Feel No Pain and Furious Assault. You don't want to take too many of these guys, as you want to save points for more dudes, but even one or two of these guys can make your squads considerably more durable.

BA also have a nice alternative to command squads, in Honor Guard squads. Honor Guard work much the same way as command squads, only they come with a free Sang Priest built in, and every guy except the priest can take a special weapon (or even two, if he swaps out both his pistol and his chainsword). So the 5 man squad can have up to four flamers, meltas, plasmas, or a combination.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/09 16:19:34


Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







I would say the biggest problem is general lack of troops. Just the 1 tactical and 1 scout squad will limit you options quite a bit in some missions. Switching to a blood angels army would bring those assault squads into play much better without you really needing to alter your force composition.

Also if you're podding inyour dreadnought maybe swap the stormbolter to a heavy flamer to help clear your drop zone a little

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gr
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker




Byzantine Sector

Don't change your assault squads but do give them all jump packs. Use drop pods for tacs.Try to collect in 250 pt blocks cuz it helps streamline your purchase plans and tactics and also leaves you with less points to buy when you start to tailor lists against specific codexes or opponents.
Deploy and move your units by instinct. This is squad level gaming and will help you train in the use of your units faster. Attack 1 enemy unit with either 2 or 3 assault squads (this is a strike force or mission team),charging on different turns can help sustain a melee and also build a tarpit in the middle of the battlefield (treat such a tarpit as a type of terrain feature). Then, after getting rid of the first assaulted target, start to split to assault more than one.. Charge the second enemy with the weakest surviving assault squad supporting one of the other two.

Do not see a defeat as a defeat. Consider it a lost battle on a hostile world. Think about it.

Consider Aegis Defence lines as an upgrade to your army that will grant you a little deployable terrain to use as an assist.


Chrome Novas Angels:Aurora (The Ascension Angels) Angels:Oblivion (Omenwing, Phantomwing) Sons of Molossia Wildrunners (101st LocBat /H-K) Burnun Skyze Eradication Angels Neutral Bay (Echoworld) Exodites.
 
   
Made in ca
Lurking Gaunt





Smoketreader wrote:
Don't change your assault squads but do give them all jump packs. Use drop pods for tacs.Try to collect in 250 pt blocks cuz it helps streamline your purchase plans and tactics and also leaves you with less points to buy when you start to tailor lists against specific codexes or opponents.
Deploy and move your units by instinct. This is squad level gaming and will help you train in the use of your units faster. Attack 1 enemy unit with either 2 or 3 assault squads (this is a strike force or mission team),charging on different turns can help sustain a melee and also build a tarpit in the middle of the battlefield (treat such a tarpit as a type of terrain feature). Then, after getting rid of the first assaulted target, start to split to assault more than one.. Charge the second enemy with the weakest surviving assault squad supporting one of the other two.

Do not see a defeat as a defeat. Consider it a lost battle on a hostile world. Think about it.

Consider Aegis Defence lines as an upgrade to your army that will grant you a little deployable terrain to use as an assist.



That's not happening anytime soon. I'm not repainting the army. It is what it is.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

I'd strongly recommend being open to at least SOME modifications, like weapon swaps. And to gradually acquiring some new units over time to give you more options.

Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.

Maelstrom's Edge! 
   
 
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