Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey mates, for those who are not aware, I am currently building a Inquisitor Storm Trooper Army using Coteaz to make Henchman troops, with the plan being that all will be mounted in Chimeras for a mobile army. Currently, I have 5x Squads and they will all be squads of 12x, with all of them w/Carapace armor and 3x per squad will have either Melta's or Plasma. as for the rest of the squad, I am debating on whenever I should equip them with Bolters or Hellguns. Obviously, Bolters are a good option, as not only are they there cheapest option they can get, but they have a good range and S4. Now for 4 more points, I can equip my guys with a Hellgun, and although a lot of people love them for the AP3, them being only 18 inch range hurts them a it, however being in a Chimera will help them in that reguard. Now currently Im leaning towards the Hellguns, as the AP3 is always nice, and plus the extra points would mean I wouldnt have to by as much as standard guard lists on top of fitting into a Mechanized list very well, the Bolter is a good all-around option that is a lot cheaper to take, and S4 is very nice against tough units like Marines and Necrons. Just looking for your opinions, thoughts, and experiences you had with or against both of these weapon choices and reasons why and thanks for the help mates.

I don't have any experience fielding such squads, though I've been interested in making some to ally with. About you set-up, I have two comments/questions. Is the carapace armour wasted if they're all mounted in chimera transport? Also, with only 5 models being able to shoot from the chimera, over half your models are twiddling their thumbs.

I've been experimenting with the same idea and generally use bolters although I have smaller squads because I put a space monkey in each unit for fire support and because the idea amuses me greatly... So far I've been getting spanked pretty hard but it's early days! I've also been using storm bolters to good effect. If I'm going to miss half the time the extra shot always helps!

Before using the IA8 rules for my Elysians I ran lots of storm trooper squads with hot shot lasguns. They are AWESOME! Ap3 is what does it for me

 gmaleron wrote:
Before using the IA8 rules for my Elysians I ran lots of storm trooper squads with hot shot lasguns. They are AWESOME! Ap3 is what does it for me

If you take into account a 6" move, a double tap from bolters will result in just as many dead marines as a single shot from hot-shot lasguns, around 0.17 each. The short range and low str really kill them, as the bolter is more likely to get more shots overall. Compare this to a Storm Bolter, and it flat out wins against the hot-shot lasgun. The hot-shot is worse against anything that doesn't have a 3+ save due to the low strength, so if you're not always shooting marines, the bolter will pull even further ahead.

When you consider the price difference, the hot-shot lasgun is rather pathetic for inquisitorial henchmen.


I'd also highly recommend avoiding carapase. It provides roughly a 66% survivability increase for the cost of another henchman. Take into account the price of a stormbolter, you pretty much make the points back, each time one survives, but if you're putting them in a chimera, that 4 points isn't going to be worth it. Throw the carapase on the plasma gunners for sure, but not the others, just get more henchmen with the points.

In summry stormbolter > Bolter ≥ Hot-shot in damage output. The stormbolter is probably the superior choice when you consider points, followed by the very cheap bolter, with the hot-shot lasgun barely worth it.

Reason for the Carapace Armor is that not only is it fluff related, as Inquisition Storm Troopers usually have it to begin with, is that even though a Chimera is harder to kill, it can still get nuked on a good dice role, and there is a lot more stuff that can instant-kill at AP5 then AP4, and so far I have had no complaints as that 4+ armor save has saved my guys more times it can count. Its just my personal preference and so far I have yet to be disappointed, and the Chimera gives my guys the extra much-needed protection against small-arms fire..

As for the Weaponry and the squads themselves, each squad in a Chimera consists of 12x Warrior Acolytes, with 2x out of the 5x Squads having 3x meltas and the other 3x having 3x Plasma. Besides that, its up in the air at the moment. Like gmaleron pointed out, the AP3 is awesome however the range of 18 inch is what makes me hesitate, as I need to get right into an opponents face for it to work, while I can be a bit more defensive with the Bolter. And not interested in Stormbolters, as a bolter is pretty much the same thing and cheaper.

That being said, if I decided to go the Bolter route, how would I convert it so that my Cadians (using the Hostile-Enviroment models from forgeworld FYI) are equipped with them?

Model on some bolters?

 TheCaptain wrote:
Model on some bolters?

Well obviously lol, however I have heard that I could use Scout Arms with bolters on Cadian Models and apparently it goes very well together. Anyone have any links/pics of this?

 Rommel44 wrote:
Like gmaleron pointed out, the AP3 is awesome however the range of 18 inch is what makes me hesitate, as I need to get right into an opponents face for it to work, while I can be a bit more defensive with the Bolter. And not interested in Stormbolters, as a bolter is pretty much the same thing and cheaper.

That being said, if I decided to go the Bolter route, how would I convert it so that my Cadians (using the Hostile-Enviroment models from forgeworld FYI) are equipped with them?

Except the AP3 isn't awesome. I already pointed out that statistically the hot-shot lasgun will do as much damage as a double tap bolter, or a stormbolter against marines, while less damage against anything with a 2+, 4+, 5+ or 6+ save.
Stormbolters are better. Whether they're worth 3 bolters is a different matter, but if you're putting carapase on them, then there's no point in keeping them cheap. At 9pts per model, you'd be better off with two flak armored models than 1 carapase armored, whereas at 11pts, the carapase might be worth it (although if they're in a chimera I still think it's pointless).

Converting cadians to holding bolters is pretty easy, marines have like a million bolters in their sets, so they're incredibly cheap en mass from eBay. Just cut off the lasgun and glue the bolter in there.

Stormbolter.

Basic Bolters. The hotshot lasgun is grossly overcosted, especially on such relatively fragile troops.

I think you should play a few games with proxy units and try to find out what task you end up using them for more. How they get used on the battlefield will show you what kind of weapons they need.

Can't go wrong with Boltguns, but if take monkies in the squads and have Hotshotlasguns you may roll for the 12 more range.

I understand the arguments and shortcomings of the hotshot lasguns but in my experience with them I have yet to be disappointed. There is a heavy Space Marine/MEQ presence at my game store and the AP3 is huge in regards to that. I would look at your local meta and see what kinds of opponents you will commonly face. Also it depends what tactics you wish to run. If you are planning on playing a defensive list go with bolters, if you are planning on being aggressive I would go with the hot shot lasguns. I know Griddle did the statistics but watching a squad of marines vanish with no armor saves is pretty fun to watch.

Usually there is a huge presence of Marine players at my store, as most people have a least one Space Maine or Chaos Space Marine army, however lately people seem to be branching out to do something other then Marines. Currently, there are a dew IG players, with a mix of Necron, Orc, both Eldar and Dark Eldar, Tau, pretty much everything but Marines, including a Sisters of Battle player.

But I can agree with the people here, as the Bolter is probably my best option overall as its dirt cheap and there is nothing wrong with a S4, 24 inch ranged weapon. But, modeling wise how would I put Bolters on my Cadians? I could cut off the Lasgun an put a Bolter in its place, however, I heard of a conversion where you take Scout arms and you put them on Cadian bodies, which go together very well. Has anyone tried this?