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Okay I bought the two player starter for Warmachine and Hordes.

In retrospect I regret buying the Horde box because with further inspection of the two factions I'm not really a fan of the minis. I just am more of a Jack kinda guy than Big Wolvee and Dragons kinda guy.

But I might still break it open as a chance to practice painting flesh, fur etc as I'm more of an clothing and armour painter.

I wish I had picked up two more starter kits for machine instead of the two player Hordes (even if it's not as good of a deal).

The minis from the two player warmachine set are glued and primed and I am pumped. I really like the aesthetics of Khador so I also picked up a unit of Widowmakers and a Heavy JAck (probably going to make it into aa Decimater or can't remember the name but it has two piston fists..... as the starter comes with the other two options this set can build).

That's the preamble but here's my question.

What are casters, units or jacks that you would recommend to augment the Protectorate and Khador starters? Keep in mind that I don't care how many points it can build just yet but more interested in pieces that would ideally allow both starters to be configured to play in more than one style.

From what I understand the caster you have can greatly chance your strategy so I think it would be neat to have an extra caster or two plus a few more figs to set up small armies that can give different play experiences.

I don't want to go full throtle and try and get a 50 point army built around one concept only to find that it's not my style.

Also, here's a question let's say the caster remains constant but the ppoint value increases..... does your approach to building hte army change or remain static?

I might build the two horde sets so that my friends and I can do a two on two as an introduction to the game..... although maybe I'll try and sell it (as I don't have the reciept) and put the money towards two more starters.... I think Retribution looks awesome and it's a toss up between Cygnar and Cryxis for looks.

In general if you want 'Jacks, you're going to be disenchanted with Khador. It's arguably the faction with the least support for 'Jacks in the entire game. Just a heads up.

That said the basic Winteguard Infantry and their various add-ons are pretty bread-n-butter Khador that work with a lot of casters and lists.

Really! I assumed with the fluff and the big chunky Jacks that they'd be all about Jacks.

frankcastle1975 wrote:
Really! I assumed with the fluff and the big chunky Jacks that they'd be all about Jacks.

It's a common assumption. Khador's more of an infantry faction.

Also, you may want to magnetize the other jack kit as the Khador kit builds 4 jacks, not the usual 3.

frankcastle1975 wrote:
Really! I assumed with the fluff and the big chunky Jacks that they'd be all about Jacks.

Well if you get deep into the fluff, Khador has such big chunky 'Jacks because they're strapped for the resource to make Cortices. They've just got warehouses full of 'Jack bodies sitting with no brains installed. Each Cortex is precious so they want to keep them in service a long time, the best way to do this is to prevent them from being damaged by housing in them in only the toughest bodies they can build. Heck they're so strapped for 'Jack Cortices they keep them around long after they've degraded to the point of instability (see the Bersker). This means they have relatively few war-ready 'jacks compared to say, Cygnar and aren't eager to commit them when they don't have to.

Now if the fact that Khador has a limited number of casters that can run a lot 'Jacks well was meant as a translation of this particularly piece of the fluff, I can't say. While they do have some decent battle group spells & feats they're generally strapped for focus, and the best buffs tend to apply to single 'Jacks. This isn't to say there isn't anyone that in Khador that can work 'Jack heavy but is on the whole decidedly not the factions niche, and is going to be a very narrow way to play them.

Khador is more about have 1 really powerful 'Jack that's the frosting on top of the cake than having 'jacks be the heart & soul of the list.


Right now, Menoth is head and shoulders above all other factions in terms of being able to just drop 'Jacks into a list with most casters and have them do the heavy lifting. Cygnar is kind of a trailing second. Other factions generally have 1-2 stand out 'Jack casters and that's about it. Convergence of Cyriss the upcoming faction in a few months is looking to also be very good at running 'Jack heavy.

Huh great idea I've never thought of magnetizing before. That's an economical way to do it!

I think on ebay I sometimes see packs of 100 magnets for this purpose.

As for Khador and the lack of Jacks I am somewhat bummed but glad I found that out now.

How's Retribution for JAcks? I like the way they look and the Vortex Cannon sounds pretty neat.

I was luke warm about the Protectorate but if they are more supportive of JAcks I think I can get into them.

Chongara wrote:

frankcastle1975 wrote:
Really! I assumed with the fluff and the big chunky Jacks that they'd be all about Jacks.

Well if you get deep into the fluff, Khador has such big chunky 'Jacks because they're strapped for the resource to make Cortices. They've just got warehouses full of 'Jack bodies sitting with no brains installed. Each Cortex is precious so they want to keep them in service a long time, the best way to do this is to prevent them from being damaged by housing in them in only the toughest bodies they can build. Heck they're so strapped for 'Jack Cortices they keep them around long after they've degraded to the point of instability (see the Bersker). This means they have relatively few war-ready 'jacks compared to say, Cygnar and aren't eager to commit them when they don't have to.

While true in the past, the Seacat has stated that the vast amounts of land that Khador has captured in the past few years has changed the situation and Cortexes are being made more frequently. In short, they've changed things to open up wider possibilities for new models.

That said, Khador fluff has always lent itself, especially in MkI, to supporting the actual board practice of infantry hordes with little Jack support.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Chongara wrote:

frankcastle1975 wrote:
Really! I assumed with the fluff and the big chunky Jacks that they'd be all about Jacks.

Well if you get deep into the fluff, Khador has such big chunky 'Jacks because they're strapped for the resource to make Cortices. They've just got warehouses full of 'Jack bodies sitting with no brains installed. Each Cortex is precious so they want to keep them in service a long time, the best way to do this is to prevent them from being damaged by housing in them in only the toughest bodies they can build. Heck they're so strapped for 'Jack Cortices they keep them around long after they've degraded to the point of instability (see the Bersker). This means they have relatively few war-ready 'jacks compared to say, Cygnar and aren't eager to commit them when they don't have to.

While true in the past, the Seacat has stated that the vast amounts of land that Khador has captured in the past few years has changed the situation and Cortexes are being made more frequently. In short, they've changed things to open up wider possibilities for new models.

That said, Khador fluff has always lent itself, especially in MkI, to supporting the actual board practice of infantry hordes with little Jack support.

Really? As recently as this week Seacat was still making posts that heavily implied the status quo was still in effect.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?144839-Khador-and-the-arc-node&p=1891424&viewfull=1#post1891424

frankcastle1975 wrote:

How's Retribution for JAcks? I like the way they look and the Vortex Cannon sounds pretty neat.

I was luke warm about the Protectorate but if they are more supportive of JAcks I think I can get into them.

Protectorate has a some advantages that make it "The 'Jack Faction" right now:

Great 'Jack Support: Choir of Menoth & Vassal of Menoth are extremely powerful 'Jack support that have low points cost and are caster independent.

Great Focus Support: Wracks & Heirophant is two extra focus for any casters, most faction only have a single attachment that gives them 1. Reclaimers let you use souls to fuel any 'Jack. Something that in other factions is limited to either specific 'jacks, or specific casters.

High Focus Stats: With the exception of 1, all of Menoth's top casters are focus 7+. pKreoss: 7, Kreoss3: 7, pSeverius: 8, Harbinger: 10

Caster Support is Versatile: Most of our buffs our casters have are just straight buffs. Very few things that are "warrior model" or "battlegroup", this means that we can use the same stuff to buff your 'Jacks you can use to buff your infantry and vice-versa. You don't have to hamstring your infantry to have a caster with good buffs for your 'jacks.

The Avatar: He's a MAT 8 P+S 19 monster that generates his own focus, for 11pts. It's a powerful 'Jack that requires zero input from the caster or really even the choir. This means if you have a list where you want to go 'Jack heavy even if caster is already at their maximum load, and you've already got a reclaimer or sanctifier using souls you still have *ANOTHER* Jack you can plop down. Let me repeat that: You can start any list with 2 'jacks that will be running at full capacity before you even start using any focus off your caster.

Well (under?) -Costed 'Jacks, efficient 'Jacks: 'Jacks like the Vanquisher, Reckoner and Redeemer come at great prices for what they do, and they're versatile. The Reckoner is a gun with a lot of reach, or a mean melee beastick. The Vanquisher can melt infantry, but after buffs can still beat up another heavy. The Redeemer can do damage to heavies at range, carpet bomb infantry, or just catch solos by virtue of template volume. The Crusader isn't versatile, but it's 6pt 'jack that's usually an effective MAT 8 P+S 20.


If you want 'Jacks your best bet is Protectorate unless you want to wait for Convergence. Cygnar can do a respectable job as they've good marshals, and support, and some decent 'Jack casters. However it's a harder style to pull off, Protectorate can kind of just plop in the Choir & Vassals and their jacks and be done with it.

Protectorate is also about to get a Jack Marshal, which will give them an even greater ability to run more Jacks.

Khador values durability and power over speed and numbers when Jacks are concerned. They then run loads of infantry to compensate. Also, Man-o-wars are practically light warjacks themselves.



As for what to add to those 2 sets,


I would add a unit of Winterguard with rockets and Kovnik Joe and a unit of Widowmakers.

For Menoth I would add a unit of Exemplar Errants with their UA, choir, and a vassal.


Alternative casters would be Vladimir and eFeora

Chongara wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Chongara wrote:

frankcastle1975 wrote:
Really! I assumed with the fluff and the big chunky Jacks that they'd be all about Jacks.

Well if you get deep into the fluff, Khador has such big chunky 'Jacks because they're strapped for the resource to make Cortices. They've just got warehouses full of 'Jack bodies sitting with no brains installed. Each Cortex is precious so they want to keep them in service a long time, the best way to do this is to prevent them from being damaged by housing in them in only the toughest bodies they can build. Heck they're so strapped for 'Jack Cortices they keep them around long after they've degraded to the point of instability (see the Bersker). This means they have relatively few war-ready 'jacks compared to say, Cygnar and aren't eager to commit them when they don't have to.

While true in the past, the Seacat has stated that the vast amounts of land that Khador has captured in the past few years has changed the situation and Cortexes are being made more frequently. In short, they've changed things to open up wider possibilities for new models.

That said, Khador fluff has always lent itself, especially in MkI, to supporting the actual board practice of infantry hordes with little Jack support.

Really? As recently as this week Seacat was still making posts that heavily implied the status quo was still in effect.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?144839-Khador-and-the-arc-node&p=1891424&viewfull=1#post1891424

Note the use of nothing but past tense in the first paragraph. Also, he's talking about Khadoran cortexes being smuggled to the Protectorate. IF, as you suggest, cortexes were still a rare commodity in Khador, why would they be smuggling them to the Protectorate when they're so needed in their own country? Yes, I know it was Old Faith and Menite Khadorans, but many are still more loyal to the country than the religion. Obviously, they were smuggling the excess that the military industrial complex didn't need at the moment, something the Empress allowed because they weren't so vital or rare and it weakened Cygnar, and that has now stopped because Khador is now at war with the Protectorate, as well as being at war with Cygnar(ramping up production means using the excess supply faster).

It implies that there are/were more than they need, which is something that wasn't true in the early days of MkI. Now, yes, Khador has less Cortexes than Cygnar, but relatively rare is not the same as truly being rare. Hell, part of grabbing Llael was because of the Golden Crucible, why wouldn't Llael jack production capabilities be another?

Thanks GT I'll take a look at those minis you recommended.

I decided I wanted to look at alternate casters as I assume those are who you build your army around and by varying their abilities it allows me to grow the army in different directions and thus ideally allowing me to try more than one style of play from one faction. Of course I'm not expecting to get things out of a faction that they are not known for.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

Chongara wrote:

frankcastle1975 wrote:
Really! I assumed with the fluff and the big chunky Jacks that they'd be all about Jacks.

Well if you get deep into the fluff, Khador has such big chunky 'Jacks because they're strapped for the resource to make Cortices. They've just got warehouses full of 'Jack bodies sitting with no brains installed. Each Cortex is precious so they want to keep them in service a long time, the best way to do this is to prevent them from being damaged by housing in them in only the toughest bodies they can build. Heck they're so strapped for 'Jack Cortices they keep them around long after they've degraded to the point of instability (see the Bersker). This means they have relatively few war-ready 'jacks compared to say, Cygnar and aren't eager to commit them when they don't have to.

While true in the past, the Seacat has stated that the vast amounts of land that Khador has captured in the past few years has changed the situation and Cortexes are being made more frequently. In short, they've changed things to open up wider possibilities for new models.

That said, Khador fluff has always lent itself, especially in MkI, to supporting the actual board practice of infantry hordes with little Jack support.

Really? As recently as this week Seacat was still making posts that heavily implied the status quo was still in effect.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?144839-Khador-and-the-arc-node&p=1891424&viewfull=1#post1891424

Note the use of nothing but past tense in the first paragraph. Also, he's talking about Khadoran cortexes being smuggled to the Protectorate. IF, as you suggest, cortexes were still a rare commodity in Khador, why would they be smuggling them to the Protectorate when they're so needed in their own country? Obviously, they were smuggling the excess that the military industrial complex didn't need at the moment, something the Empress allowed because they weren't so vital or rare and it weakened Cygnar, and that has now stopped because Khador is now at war with the Protectorate.

It implies that there are more than they need, which is something that wasn't true in the early days of MkI. Now, yes, Khador has less Cortexes than Cygnar, but relatively rare is not the same as truly being rare.

I'm primarily talking about the last paragraph after the edit, were he's talking about an ongoing state of things. Presumably if Khador was now swimming in a wealth of Cortext creating materials, it'd bear mentioning alongside the fact the country is basically devoid of them. I guess we'll see how further releases go, if the barrier to Khador deploying Arc Node technology was a matter of being strapped for resources they didn't have an abundance of before, but now have a lot of presumably we'd be seeing them appear in the line-up relatively shortly.

Then again, millitaries can be slow entities to adapt to change, it could be decades out before Khador adopts new tactics in regards to the # of 'Jacks they field in the face of their new wealth of cortex-building ability.

Chongara wrote:


I'm primarily talking about the last paragraph after the edit, were he's talking about an ongoing state of things. Presumably if Khador was now swimming in a wealth of Cortext creating materials, it'd bear mentioning alongside the fact the country is basically devoid of them. I guess we'll see how further releases go, if the barrier to Khador deploying Arc Node technology was a matter of being strapped for resources they didn't have an abundance of before, but now have a lot of presumably we'd be seeing them appear in the line-up relatively shortly.

Then again, millitaries can be slow entities to adapt to change, it could be decades out before Khador adopts new tactics in regards to the # of 'Jacks they field in the face of their new wealth of cortex-building ability.

Sorry, I was meaning the relative amount of Cortexes, not the materials to build them. From what I gather, the reason they don't have Arc Nodes is because those resources they have are put into producing cortexes, where as the abundance of those materials in the south means Cygnar can produce both in good quantity. However, with the conquering of much of Llael, they have more finished Cortexes than in the past because of Llaelese jack production, not necessarily more of the resource to build them.

That said, I agree that the Khadoran military complex is slow to change(barring completion of the Conquest) and that they'll be slow to put into production any Light Warjack, if ever, thanks to their increased cortex supply. After all, they still see the MoW as comparable and man power in the north is infinitely more available.