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Does anyone else think excluding the option of going to ground makes little sense for fearless units?

Being fearless is not always an insane hunger for battle at the disregard of your own life. Hell, half the time it means sitting tight in a trench that is being shelled and not running away screaming for mommy.

It's a USR that tries to be too abrangent and comes out silly. Cool, serene Deathwing veterans that have seen warfare in all of its forms refuse to hunker down in cover to escape plasma blasts? Even Orks have the common sense to do that.

I can just see the battefields of the 42nd millenium:

"Lord Zhufor, that vindicator is killing us! Let's get to those ruins to the east and wait for Havoc support!"

"Shut up, Champion! We fear nothing, and that means standing here and eating demolisher shells all afternoon if that's the way it goes! ...besides, our Bloodletter allies are already crouching down in the ruins. Who'd imagine incarnation of the god of violence would be so tactically versatile?"

Yeah, bloodletters get to play defensive crouch, while plague marines and zerkers cannot.

Fearless should be broken into two different USRs, much like Relentless also has a lesse version in Slow and Purposeful:

-Fearless: This unit automatically passes Morale rolls and Pinning tests, as normal.

-Berserk: This unit automatically passes all Morale rolls and pinning tests, but it cannot go to ground.

One would be cheaper points-wise than the other, of course.

Fearless units lost the ability to go to ground because you no longer have to take no retreat wounds, which was a HUGE change and benifted those units greatly. It needed a downside, and the change from 5th to 6th was extremely favourable for anything Fearless.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:
Fearless units lost the ability to go to ground because you no longer have to take no retreat wounds, which was a HUGE change and benifted those units greatly. It needed a downside, and the change from 5th to 6th was extremely favourable for anything Fearless.

ATSKNF and combat tactics are intensely superior to Fearless. They let you disengage from a losing combat/tarpit, allow extra turns of shooting/overwatch against melee enemies and you still get to crouch ion area terrain with a 3+ cover save (2+ in ruins).

No more no retreat wounds may favor some ork and nid builds, but tactically it's not that big of a deal.

I like the way the Fearless rule stands.

My Khorne Berzerkers have fearless. In the fluff they are likened to being crazy blood thirsty chaos tainted marines who live only to please the Blood God and to give him more skulls. This mentality is similar to zombies, therefore the Khorne Berzerkers are not inclined to go to ground and would rather charge head first. Their death only serves to please the Blood God more.

Another example is the Deathwing of the DA. Yes they rather die than not make that vindicator repent!

As for the Chaos Daemons, I never raised or played them so my opinions would not matter.

If you look on what actually has fearless, it would be the thing's that would wade into bulletfire without a second thought. Khorne berzerkers, daemons, tyranid hordes, orks, e.x

Those thing's that would be sensible enough to duck, have ATSKNF.

Those thing's that are not fearless, or ATSKNF, flee.

1. Rules should never be designed to reflect real life, nor should they be used to make 'sense.'
2. Fearless units can't go to ground because going to ground is the same as diving out of the way of bullets, which is to fear bullets.
3. The only units who might be fearless who would stop, drop and roll are those led by chaplains.

 One in a Million wrote:

My Khorne Berzerkers have fearless. In the fluff they are likened to being crazy blood thirsty chaos tainted marines who live only to please the Blood God and to give him more skulls. This mentality is similar to zombies, therefore the Khorne Berzerkers are not inclined to go to ground and would rather charge head first. Their death only serves to please the Blood God more.

While Bloodletters, who are pretty much pieces of the god that is mindless fury incarnat, are alright with crouching in a forest and watch the bullets fly by for a turn or two?

 Sephyr wrote:

 One in a Million wrote:

My Khorne Berzerkers have fearless. In the fluff they are likened to being crazy blood thirsty chaos tainted marines who live only to please the Blood God and to give him more skulls. This mentality is similar to zombies, therefore the Khorne Berzerkers are not inclined to go to ground and would rather charge head first. Their death only serves to please the Blood God more.

While Bloodletters, who are pretty much pieces of the god that is mindless fury incarnat, are alright with crouching in a forest and watch the bullets fly by for a turn or two?

As I stated in the same post as before, I never raised nor played a Chaos Daemon army so my opinions of them are invalid, have no basis. What more do you want me to say?

 Sephyr wrote:
No more no retreat wounds may favor some ork and nid builds, but tactically it's not that big of a deal.

Are you kidding, losing No Retreat was huge for Orks and Nids (and even Marines). Not being able to Go To Ground is sensible from a balance perspective. ATSKNF is pretty ridiculous now though...

I find the whole fearless cant go to ground myself silly. I dont see how finding a way to keep yourself alive for more killing is a sign of fear. Orks hugging cover sure! Orks on a rampage down the tunnel to get you, bullets everywhere, sure! why can a poor ork hit the deck? because he just isnt allowed too.