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Hey all,

As you can see in the above photo, i've just wrecked about 2 hours worth of painting because my airbrush start spattering.
I've cleaned it through 3 times with airbrush cleaner.

I've run an old needle up and down the nozzle in order to remove any gunk.

Finally I'm put the needle and nozzle parts into a sonic cleaner and yet I can't get the paint to come out smooth.

I'm using a H&S Evo 0.2mm, with Tamiya paints thinned with Mr Sticky's thinner.

I'm hoping some washes with a filter will cover up the splatters.

Has anyone got some insights as to why this may have happened and how I can stop it form happening?

Regards

Have you applied airbrush lubricant to the needle?

Have you cleaned the body of the brush? Not just the needle and nozzle?

You might have gotten some back flow of paint that is now dry and lodged where the air comes from which could cause the spluttering.

EDIT - The other thing is always, always start spraying on something that isn't your model, use that cardboard you have down.

Mine does this anytime I thin with water.

Lub helps a lot.

i also thin with a mix of flowaid and water.

lastly i never press down on any trigger on my project, always to the side or hand then keep it down before i pull back for paint.

since that i haven't had any problems with splatter.

Pressure could be too high, or too low

or others have mentioned, something impeding airflow near the tip.

best of luck with the models!!!

I also have a .2 Silverline. Up the pressure to 25psi and thin a bit more. Test on paper before shooting the model. If you have the optional .35 nozzle, switch to that.

Do you have a water trap on your line? Also, start your air on your brush off of the model.

Hey guys thanks for the feedback,

The spattering was occurring all the time not just on the first squeeze. In the above shot I started off the front of the tank and moved up on to it.

@Virx, I have a moisture trap between the compressor and the hose...is that what you mean.

@Rickfactor, sorry I should have mentioned I was spraying at 30psi

I guess ultimately there must be a blockage somewhere, when I flush out I always do the finger over the nozzle trick to back flush it. Plus I clean this thing meticulously. After every use the bits go in a sonic cleaner and the body gets a good clean as well.

@Evertras, so I was told that a drop of vegtable oil on my finger tips, rubbed down the needle would do the job...what do you think?

Thanks guys

Dave

I honestly don't know on that one. I've only done a limited amount of airbrushing, and haven't had this problem. I was told to use actual airbrush lube as it would make a difference, and that's what I've done from the start. Might be worth getting the good stuff, I don't know for sure though. :(

Pressure, use proper thinner, I had something simular happen to my old ab.. id get bubbles in cup aswell found out my nozzle was stuffed, and needle head was bent.

@kronic, I had an ab brush to learn with as well. It was great for the money, but the seals started to leak after a while, which is when I upgraded to the evo. I kept the needle form the ab to use as a cleaning tool.

Never heard of Mr Stiky's thinner, got a link.

Too me, that splatter looks like your paint is not atomizing correctly, possible causes would be;

damaged needle
damaged nozzle
spraying too close
spraying too far
not properly thinned <- this is why I ask about Mr Sticky thinner, Tamyia can be a bit temperamental when it comes to thinner and this is a brand I have never heard of.

Ashton

@Redfinger...sure, well kinda http://mrsticky.co.uk/Spray-Acrylic-Thinner-55ml

TBH I think it's only available in the UK (now there's a first )

This has been playing on my mind and I think I've worked out what went wrong...

So first I applied a dark green in the shadows, which goes on nice.
Next I applied nato green all over except the shadows, and again really nice results.
Next I mix nato green with white and apply highlights in a modulation type style, results are really good and I'm happy with the world.
Next I take the same mix and add more white and more thinner, apply and BAMM! Badness ensues. Okay it's only a little bit, so I decant the paint, flush through, try again, still spattering, decant, reomve nozzle and needle, clean, try again...still bad. Clean one more time, try again...go slightly mad, scream at the gods of painting and decide to hell with it I'm going to paint anyway - dumbass.

All paints were Tamiya, all thinned with Mr Sticky's...the only thing that is different is that I added paint to a mix I'd already made and by the time I came to use it again a thin film had formed on the top (like soup). I added more white and then added more thinner and mixed it up using a pipettte. I wonder though if the damage was already done and perhaps I should have mixed up a fresh batch of paint...

Does that sound like a plausible explanation?

It sounds like you're adding the paint directly to the cup on the airbrush? If that is the case, you may want to consider mixing your paints in a plastic cup or something and then pouring it into the airbrush cup with some sort of filter - pantyhose helps catch paint solids so you don't get paint gummed up near the nozzle.

Otherwise it may be a combination of air pressure a bit too high and paint a bit too thin.

 Hangfire wrote:
@Redfinger...sure, well kinda http://mrsticky.co.uk/Spray-Acrylic-Thinner-55ml

TBH I think it's only available in the UK (now there's a first )

This has been playing on my mind and I think I've worked out what went wrong...

So first I applied a dark green in the shadows, which goes on nice.
Next I applied nato green all over except the shadows, and again really nice results.
Next I mix nato green with white and apply highlights in a modulation type style, results are really good and I'm happy with the world.
Next I take the same mix and add more white and more thinner, apply and BAMM! Badness ensues. Okay it's only a little bit, so I decant the paint, flush through, try again, still spattering, decant, reomve nozzle and needle, clean, try again...still bad. Clean one more time, try again...go slightly mad, scream at the gods of painting and decide to hell with it I'm going to paint anyway - dumbass.

All paints were Tamiya, all thinned with Mr Sticky's...the only thing that is different is that I added paint to a mix I'd already made and by the time I came to use it again a thin film had formed on the top (like soup). I added more white and then added more thinner and mixed it up using a pipettte. I wonder though if the damage was already done and perhaps I should have mixed up a fresh batch of paint...

Does that sound like a plausible explanation?

From my experience Tamyia paint is real finicky when used with products other than Tamyia. Perhaps the combination of paint is what is causing the problem. I know in the past when I have used thinners other than Tamyia thinner or a 30% Isopropynol mix I have noticed that the Tamyia paint starts to gum up.

Try a little experiment, mix two batches of the same paint, same ratios, however, mix one with your "sticky" thinner and the other with some Tamyia thinner if you can get it, or some Isoprpynol. Let them both sit for a while and observe the consistency of the paint. My bet it, "sticky" thinner gums up.

This other stuff you are hearing about air pressure and filters, lube, ect..is way off mark, people just regurgitating what they have heard else where. Tamyia is the worst brand I have ever used when it comes to airbrushing, not because of colors or consistency, but because the paint is so damn temperamental when it comes to thinning.

Ashton

Ashton....WHAT REALLY!!!!

I've had such problems trying to airbrush with vallejo paints, constantly drying and causing blockages. When I switched to Tamiya it was like a breath of fresh air, I thought "Yes! This is how my airbrush should behave, excellent"

Your work is really really nice. What paints do you use?

I will try to get my hands on some isopropynol, can you use it to thin most acrylics?

Thanks very much for the advice, i'm not a complete newb at airbrushing but I'm still struggling to get consistent results.

Dave

I actually really like p3 paints for airbrushing, or liquitex inks. Tamyia is a great airbrush and does airbrush well, but again, when ever you use non Tamyia products with Tamyia products I have observed that there have been problems. It is not a bad paint, you just have to stay exclusive with the Tamyia line

Ah I see...

P3 huh, I'll give them a go. What do you thin yours with?

Out of interest what sort of airbrush do you use?

That thin film is likely your problem as opposed to any paints or combination of paints/additives. I actually will strain most my paints before I use them if I am using one of my internal mix brushes. My 350 though...well, it really doesn't care and can spray gravel with enough pressure.

Some of my internal mix brushes though, especially ones with a really small nozzle oriface can get bogged down with certain metallic paints.

 Hangfire wrote:
Ah I see...

P3 huh, I'll give them a go. What do you thin yours with?

Out of interest what sort of airbrush do you use?

I use a mix of Matte Medium/Distilled Water/Liquitex Airbrush thinner, about a 20/40/40 mix. Inks I do not thin at all, and I use 2 different brushes depending on what I am doing; Iwata Eclipse - Base coating and priming. H&S Infinity with a .2 or .15 needle depending on task.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
That thin film is likely your problem as opposed to any paints or combination of paints/additives. I actually will strain most my paints before I use them if I am using one of my internal mix brushes. My 350 though...well, it really doesn't care and can spray gravel with enough pressure.

Some of my internal mix brushes though, especially ones with a really small nozzle oriface can get bogged down with certain metallic paints.

I would disagree. Tamyia paints are notorious for separating. Although Tamyia paints say they are acrylic, the carrier in the I believe is glycol based. That film he is describing is what happens when Tamyia sits for a while...and with non tamyia products tamyia paints become gummy.

Ashton

@Sean, I think from now I'm going to always create a fresh batch of paint...how do you strain your paint though? Like with tea strainer?

@Redfinger, Mister Sticky's definitely doesn't love Vallejo paints, I found I got what you've described, almost like the acrylic coalesced into small blobs.

I'm thinking of buying a new needle and nozzle set a 0.4, wish i'd bought the 2in1 version of my brush so I'd have it. I'm not sure that a 0.2 was a good purchase for a relative newbie.
Do you think it's worth it, I mean could I still paint camo lines on flames of war sized tanks with it?

I will often do zenithal priming and base coating with my .2mm needle because it works for me. the .4 will be a bigger pattern but I feel that gets close to loosing the detailing aspect that comes with a .2. The .4 would be easier to learn on but you might run into detailing problems.

Ashton

So, i've managed to recover the model quite a bit, still quite speckly but not as bad as it was I think.

I might try some my vallejo paints again and see what pattern I get from them, just to see if it is the paint or the brush.

A film is not seperation...seperation does happen with most paints, but a film would imply that it is exposed to air and has begin the process of polymerization. Those solids created can be mixed back in but the molecular chains are long enough to gum things up.

You can get odd issues when you attempt to dillute with things like water, though that is an issue with miscibility of the two fluids.

Regarding straining the paints, it depends on which I am using and with which brush. A fine mesh wire filter like those in reusable coffee filters is sufficient to get the chunks. I have a specific attachment for my bottom feed brushes which connects over the pickup tube. With that, I just screw on the bottle and go with it.

With my gravity feed brushes, I use a small cone filter which I run the paint through after I thin it.

I have also heard that ladies nylons work well to strain paints.

Thanks for the advice guys, it's appreciated.

I'm now starting to wonder if I have a duff bottle of white paint, as I only get the splatter pattern when I add it to the mix.

I'm managed to apply a final highlight (very small) and then re-apply the original green. Unfortunatley I've lost a lot of the transition between dark and light, but it's better than it was.

I've also applied several layers of filters and washes to smooth things out.



Sean and Desubot...what paints do you find work well in an airbrush, and with what do you thin them?

Dave

I just use a Chinese clone of some 500 dollar iwata ab.. has built in pressure ajusture and all that was like 50 bucks with a full set and all that. 4 needles had it for about 3 months no issues what so ever.

Hi, I noticed somebody had linked to my web site from this thread. Having read it [so far] I thaught you might like to have some extra info:- We developed the Mr.Sticky's Spray Acrylic Thinner a few years ago when the Tamiya version was very hard to get hold of in the UK. You may remember it was going for silly money on the dreaded Ebay for a while. After extensive testing we came up with the formula we market. It thins most acrylics, but, as has been suggested, not all as there are different types of acrylic. If you try a small sample of paint and mix it with our thinner it will either 'work' or 'not work' there is no half way [I can post a list of the brands we use to test the product if you wish]. The product is made in reasonably small batches and each batch tested before release, so there is no fear of a rogue batch. One thing that we always find, especially duing this awful weather we have had over the last year in the UK is if the weather is wet outside, damp air will ruin your work, even with a water trap.
We do mail outside the UK, just email us.
Using just IPA dulls Tamiya gloss paint and sometimes affects matt.
Using just water can be a problem because acrylic paints can be fussy and any impurity in the water will have an adverse affect on the paint
Regards,
Mr.Sticky