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Most of my paint pots are of the hexagon kind with black lids. I loved those. But now they're mostly dried up and I'm in need of new ones. Which can cause some problems...

New GW paints are very confusing! For instance, where is Chaos Black? GW's previous standard black paint was thick and rich with pigments. All I can find now is "Abaddon Black" which is watery and low on pigments. And what are all these paint labels like "base", "technical" and "layer"? Not only have the colours changed names, but they have some weird new system too.

Can someone give an easy explanation? And help me find the good old black paint?

Honestly I'd take the opportunity to jump to Vallejo, their Game Colour range is very similar to the old Citadel, and its more paint for less money.

You'll find very few people with a bad word to say about them, with the exception of perhaps the odd metallic.

What about the paint containers? I'm used to pots with lids. Do one need a palette with Vallejo?

Yes, and if you're painting straight out of the pot, you need to make the jump to using a palette if you have any aspiration to improve your finished standard.

What do you mean about my "finished standard"?

I sometimes mix paints from pots instead of painting straight out of them.

Vallejo paints do look cheap and good so it could very likely be something for the future.

If you're painting straight from the pot, you're not thinning your paint, if you're not thinning your paint, and not comfortable doing so, then it is highly unlikely that you're finished models will ever look as good as you are capable of producing if you were to thin your paints.

Which is not to say you must, but you're unlikely to achieve better than an average tabletop standard if you don't.

Well how about thinning the paint by watering the brush before and sometimes after getting it from the pot?

That gives you absolutely no control.

Most painters (and certainly the advice I followed) recommend a ratio of 1:1-2:1 paint to water as a starting point, a similar consistency to milk is often suggested as well.

As I've tried to improve, I've moved on again, and use a mixture of water, flow aid and drying retarder in a separate dropper bottle, which has, to me, made a real difference to the finished article.

But again, there's no right way, but when various top painters repeatedly give the same or similar advice then you'd be daft not to listen (I don't mean me by the way, just those whose advice I'm passing to you!)

The Vallejo Game Color (VGC) range more closely matches the old GW range than the new GW range does. This chart shows what paints match up to those of other ranges which should help you get the colours you want. Check through the Vallejo Model Colour (VMC) and Vallejo Model Air (VMA) for other colours too, with VMA being very nice to work with.

Specifically for black, I like VMA black. Goes on smooth and thin straight from the bottle with good coverage. I picked up the new Minitaire set a few months ago though and I've been enjoying using the black from that now too.

Here's one I did. I'm going to second the paint compatibility chart, it really helps.

Bases - Exactly like foundations, just different colours. If your Abaddon Black is thin and watery, then shake it and stir it. If this doesn't fix anything, then it's more than likely a bad pot.

Layers - They are actually slightly thinner and CAN be used straight from the pot, but you have to use only a small amount. Thinning is still good though, and should always be done.

Shades - Just washes. However, some people have said that they can make paint appear "glossy," or dull colours too much. This may be due to a bad pot or temperature.

Dry - Basically just thick, thick paint. You can thin them and use them as layers, funnily enough.

Textured - Just paint with texture, good for mud effects on wheels. Meant for basing minis easier, and despite looking like you're chopping out great globs of the stuff goes a long way if you add a little water.

Edges - Pastel coloured layers. That's really it. Meant for "super showcase models," but you can just add white to your layers and use a super-thin brush for the same effect.

Glazes - Light-coloured washes that brighten up colours. Think back to your art history classes and how they talked about vibrant colours made from many thin layers of paint. That's what these are, except that it's only one coat.

Technical - Liquid GS for gap-filling (or making mud), Imperial Primer for hand-priming (useful if you're on a trip), Lahmian Medium is pretty much just a paint thinner, and 'Ard Coat is a gloss varnish.

I still have some of the old paints, not much difference really. My only suggestion is that when you're done with the black-topped pots, clean them out and put the new paint (sans the washes/glazes) in them. The new pots are terrible if you let paint dry in them.

EDIT: Here's a text wall. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/510973.page#5343308

I managed to salvage a lot of my old paints from the hex bottles with the small flip tops, to the hard plastic hexes with just a screw top, to the hard plastic hexes with screw and flip top. If your paints have not dried completely you can probably recover them. I used water to get mine back into shape, but if I had it to do over again I would probably have used some combination of matte medium, water and flow aid. But the main thing is that you need a stiff stirrer. I used a stainless steel sculpting tool. I had to dig into the thick - almost wet clay like - paint and slowly add water and lots of stirring, crushing, and more stirring with the sculpting tool to get the pigment back into decent solution. You will likely still have some chunks of cured paint that just will never be reincorporated, and you won't be able to save them all. Just add the water VERY slowly so you don't end up with too much water and not enough pigment (I almost killed my Blood Red like that).

I've heard good and bad things about every paint out there, but if you're looking for the OLD colors, Vallejo Game Color or Coat d'Arms (the company that made the softer plastic hex bottle paint with the thin flip-top and probably the super-old round bottles) are what you're after.

I bought a grip of the new Citadel paints when the new range came out. I was very excited, grabbed up some tecture, drybrush, layers, etc. I also grabbed some of the new washes. I had over half of them be faulty. By that I mean the washes left a horrible, ruinous coat, the layer paint for high yellow, flash gits or whatever, left a sandy residue on the model, causing it to be ruined as well. Now my drybrush compounds have completely solidified.

So, screw Citadel. Never again. I use some P3 and had good look with them, like Vallejo to some extent but other than a huge fiasco with their spray paint, I am in love with Army Painter war paints. Really good luck with those. Check out my painting disaster pics in my Space Marine blog for the trials I've had with the new Citadel range. Between Army Painter, Vallejo, and P3 I've never looked back to Citadel BTW.

Just my 2 cents.

*EDIT* Sorry to answer the original question, I really like Matt Black from Army Painter, very rich, good coverage. Vallejo's Black is great also

Yeah, I had no interest in swapping all of my GW paints to new colours yet again... so as stuff runs out I have been switching back mainly to Coat D'arms, which were the original GW colours that I started with all those years ago and have remained unchanged since. For anything else I need, I've been picking up bits and bobs of P3, and Vallejo. Next purchase will be some Army Painter washes.

Like I said about AP's Spray - NOT a huge fan, it is just hard to work with, or well , that isn't necessarily fair, I've only used the yellow. Their washes are just perfect though, very much like Devlan mud, etc. Nice coverage. P3 has a really good paint range too. Really nice coverage.

I made the leap to dropper bottle paints and will never go back.

Its quite subjective, but don't knock it until you try it with an open mind.

I prefer either reaper, Vallejo, or actually now I use airbrush paints, as most of those paint just fine with a brush as well.

Best of luck! If you are unsure, find a friend who has some of various paints, and give them a try.
(if you are in the DFW TX area, pm me, I have a lot of paints of various types you can try).

Best of luck!

davethepak wrote:
I made the leap to dropper bottle paints and will never go back.

Its quite subjective, but don't knock it until you try it with an open mind.

I'm not a fan. Had the top pop off mid squeeze one time too many...

 insaniak wrote:

davethepak wrote:
I made the leap to dropper bottle paints and will never go back.

Its quite subjective, but don't knock it until you try it with an open mind.

I'm not a fan. Had the top pop off mid squeeze one time too many...

I get that...and I have knocked over paint pots a few times too!
(I am quite a klutz at times).

hint - if you pop the top off ...try not squeezing as hard! (that just can't end well!!!)
(keep a paperclip handy for clearing clogs - some of the older reaper bottles used to clog on me...)

In all seriousness, there are pro's and cons to any methods of just about every crafting aspect of this hobby.
I suggest people try different methods, after getting a few pointers from people who have had success with them, and then see what works for themselves.

davethepak wrote:
I get that...and I have knocked over paint pots a few times too!

Easier to avoid if you don't paint straight from the pot.

hint - if you pop the top off ...try not squeezing as hard! (that just can't end well!!!)
(keep a paperclip handy for clearing clogs - some of the older reaper bottles used to clog on me...)

Yeah, all well and good. Some of the Vallejo paints tend to get a bit thick over time (particularly their greys) and it just takes that little bit too much pressure to pop the top out of some bottles.

Her trengs det litt hjelp ser jeg
Om du vil fortsette å male ut fra potta vil jeg anbefale deg å ta med pottene dine til enten GW i Oslo, de hjelper deg, eller dra på Outland og be om hjelp der...
På Outland selger de også et merke som heter P3, de er ligner på GW maling men er veldig annerledes... Vallejo Game Color er nærmest GW, men kommer med dråpeteller og ikke i potter... De er dessverre utrolig vanskelig å få tak i i Norge... Du kan derimot få tak i Vallejo model color og Vallejo model air i Norge gjennom smallsize.no
Har allerede snakket med smallsize om de kunne ta inn game color, men da må du bestille pakker på 10 for hver farge... Om du ønsker mer hjelp kan jeg anbefale deg å ta en tur innom det norske forumet 2d6.no, folka der hjelper deg garantert!