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Ok, next topic I thought could generate some good discussion -

There are of course 100's of ships in the EU and a few larger vessels left in the OT to mine after wave 3.

I have secured a nearly correct scale Blockade Runner/ Corellian Corvette which I will be modifying and basing in an X-wing compatible way... but... what to do for rules and stats?

According to Wiki Data, it is armed with -

Taim & Bak H9 dual turbolasers (2 turrets: 1 dorsal, 1 ventral)
Taim & Bak H9 single turbolasers (4 turrets mounted on dorsal escape pods: 2 port, 2 starboard)



Bearing that in mind, I am thinking along these lines -

Movement wheel similar to Y-wing, but no K turns... only able to do a full turn on 3 and that would be a red. The base will likely be quite large, I am guessing minimum 6 inches square, to the movement would be done in an odd way... I would mark off the back of the base with a loose card or something and move the model out of the way, then measure movement from the back of the base, not the front. Then the model would be placed again lined up to the back side as standard. This may sound very limiting but given the size of the base it should still let the model move a reasonable distance without it being able to drastically outpace fighters. Going the standard route would result in a ship that would have 6" added to every move... too much!

Shields and hull is a toughy... I figure that it should be pretty beasty, 10-12 shields with 8-10 hull points. My provisos to moderate this are 2 things. First, the last 5 hull points are automatic critical hits if damaged. Second, astromechs for it will cost 2-3 times the points or require 3 duplicate cards.

Agility 1... obviously.

Attacks is another tricky one... I figure both sets of single turbo laser turrets should have 90 degree broadside arcs, 2 turrets per side, independently targeting and firing. Attacks per broadside, let's say 4 standard attack dice with standard ranging rule modifiers.

Meanwhile, the ventral and dorsal heavy twin turbolasers would be 360 arc weapons, targeted either together or seperately. Seperately, 3 attack dice each. Together 6. Why similar to the single TL turrets? Because it would could as a secondary weapon in that no range modifiers would apply. In reality it would be a new class of primary starship weapon. If you elect to fire one turret at a time, you cannot re-target the same enemy ship. You have to go all in off the bat, or run the risk of not killing your target.

actions - 2Xfocus, 2X target lock. 2 actions per turn, can repeat actions. Target locks and focus cannot be spent on the same turret or linked turrets, only seperate firing solutions.

Upgrades - astromechs for damage repair and shield regen only. Gunners allowed, but gunners must be tied to specifc turrets or linked turrets. Exception being the dorsal/vental series firing together may use the same gunner. Other than that, only one gunner can be given to either the dorsal or ventral turret if firing singly, there cannot be one on both. Broadsides may each have a turret.

Special rules - Starship class ships are particularly vulnerable to proton torpedos and other missile weapons, they may not re-roll defense dice against attacks of this nature for any reason, including abilities and focus tokens.

Ship requires 4 ion tokens to be ioned.


I figure that the base cost of a Blockade runner should be 80-100 points...



What do you think guys?



Another thing I would love to see in this thread is some house rules for modifying existing ships, such as the Tie Advanced for example.

Great thread, Tom. I cannot wait for Warboss's take on the Corvette since he's run a scenario with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and from the other thread:

 Manchu wrote:
I envision a TIE/D (droid/drone) as follows:

- A2 D2 H3 S0
- Barrel Role, Evasion
- maneuver dial as TIE/LN except all white (cannot take stress)
- 10 pts at PS1

I like it! Tie spam of a different flavor, different enough from the academy pilots but not drastic... What about upgrades? May also be interesting to make ion damage count for all hits to damage, marking the vulnerability of the droid 'pilot'? I.e vs the normal 3 dice, 3 hits = 1 damage and 1 ion, with these ships 3 hits equals 3 damage and 1 ion you see?

I was thinking more about the Tie Advanced, and how unless it is vader they are rarely used... What if they were given a new special rule 'terminal recovery' where they would get a roll on being destroyed - rolling a focus would allow you to replace the ship on the board anywhere in range 1 on any facing with all damage cards removed (crits stay).

I see this as representing cinematically vaders spin out recovery and representing fluff-wise the advanced tech and redundant systems inherent in the class. It is by no means guaranteed, and even if you make the roll you may only get one hull point back... But if you are lucky, you may restore your hp and be back in the game. Would def make regular advance pilots an interesting decision vs interceptors and distinguish them more vs the other imperials.

I dunno I think it would make a nice, interesting addition to the game and brings few more advances to the board!

No points add btw, just a new special rule.

 Manchu wrote:
Great thread, Tom. I cannot wait for Warboss's take on the Corvette since he's run a scenario with it.

LOL, my ears were ringing! MT, if you're using the ship I recommended a while back from the BGG thread (the collectors edition corvette), it'll absolutely dwarf the 6" base and overhang it by 6-8" on each length side. If you're using a smaller sized model, what you're suggesting is fine but it's a bit visually odd if using the full 17" corvette. If anything, I'd recommend going with a tapered base or a simple rectangle instead that covers its footprint more appropriately. I've toyed (pun intended) around with ideas on how to make the ship more maneuverable as well with the huge 17" base that still holds true to the feel of a capital ship. In my take on the BGG scenario, the corvette just had an initial flat 3 move forward (that didn't add the ship's base obviously). For a scenario, that's fine but I don't think it'll work well in a more classic game environment. For those types of games, I wanted to give the ship a bit more flexibility in movment and came up with the following. Use the y-wing maneuver dial and ignore the k-flip. For soft turns, place the appropriate turn piece to the front side edge of the ships base and move the edge of the base to the opposite end corner of the straight piece. For hard turns, you use the appropriate curve but place the opposite side of the ship base to the edge of the straight piece. I don't know if that's verbally coming across clearly so I've attached an admittedly crude drawing to illustrate a soft left and hard right turn.

I'm not a fan of using agility 1 for the model as the idea of a capital ship the size of 6 barns shouldn't dodge at all. I realize you can use the agility mechanic to represent other types of damage reductions but I think its probably better if you incorporate an armor type system. The BGG thread just had a simple 1 reduction from any damge for "armor" (the equivalent of 1 successful agility die roll) whereas mine was 2 armor but crits ignored armor (instead of generating a card). I was happy with how the armor worked in the scenario that I ran. For the weapons, the corvette model doesn't show the smaller weapons in any detail so I personally just ignored them. As for the larger batteries, the game has an existing weapon called a heavy laser cannon that you can use for each turret (upgrade card for slave 1) that give it the feel of a primary anti-ship weapon (since it can't be used at range 1) whereas the smaller turrets could be y-wing style ones without the ion rules (so 2 damage dice, max range 2).

That said, I do like your stats and ideas for a smaller model of the corvette that would fit on the 6" base (at least mostly). I think the points are spot on for its defensive ability but maybe a bit too low for the offensive. The ship you're proposing can throw out 22 attack dice in a single turn from my reading (2 turrets per side at 4 each so 8 per side plus 3 per big turbolaser turret). Compare that to the 3 dice that the mil falc gets for 50pts. If anything, if you're going to keep the smaller turrets in, I'd count them as 2 die each that can fire separately or add together (so 4 per side max before range modifiers) with the dorsal/ventral ones being 4 dice each and secondary weapons. That's still alot of firepower and a bit of a glass cannon but it's survivable versus 100pts of other stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorTom11 wrote:

I was thinking more about the Tie Advanced, and how unless it is vader they are rarely used... What if they were given a new special rule 'terminal recovery' where they would get a roll on being destroyed - rolling a focus would allow you to replace the ship on the board anywhere in range 1 on any facing with all damage cards removed (crits stay).

I do hope they eventually come out with a TIE avenger card for the advanced model as I'd prefer the style both visual and mechanical of that ship. You can make an avenger somewhat using the existing rules (TIE intercepter plus shield mod) but it's not the same thing and is definitely watered down. It *should* be 2-3 shields depending on your source material with a missile upgrade and target lock on an otherwise TIE interceptor base model.

Here is something that I created for our campaign. If the Imperial player can keep one of the containers from being destroyed they have access to a single fighter:

TIE Avenger









It was made from an TIE Advanced, plasticard and left over pieces of the Advanced. I will post the paint I used to cover what I used later.

Here is the rules and stats for it:

Avenger Squadron
TIE/ad "Avenger"
Skill 3
Attack 3
Agility 3
Hull 3
Shield 3

Uses the TIE Intercetor Dial
Focus, Evade, Target Lock, Barrel Roll, Boost, Beam Weapon
Expert Pilot Upgrade, Missile (x2), Torpedo (x2), or bomb (Only one choice)

Points: 37

Beam Weapon: Used instead of action. RNG 1-2. Enemy fighter targeted in the front arc of the TIE Avenger can only move 1 white stright or 1 red sharp left or right for one turn. No barrel rolls or boosts. Beam lock is lost if the enemy fighter completely leaves the front arc or range. Beam lock is lost if an object (object, fighter, etc...) passes in between the target and the TIE Avenger. Beam lock is also lost if the TIE Avenger is hit by an attack.

Ooooooo Tommy want conversion tutorial!

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Ooooooo Tommy want conversion tutorial!

I will have to try and make another one but here is a simple and dirty tutorial. I will do a better one later:

Step 1: Pop off the wings. The glue is rather weak so it should be easy.

Step 2: Cut the front and back of each center part of the wing. Save these part cut off just in case.

Step 3: Find the little rectangle blocks on the top back of the main body. Cut right across.

Step 4: Take the part trimmed off the back and cut the engine away stright down so you have to rounded parts from the rear and a ling stright part attached to the ion engine. Then cut the ion engine off and save it.

Step 5: Glue the Ion Engine back onto the main body. Then Glue the two rounded rear sections to the rear struts next to the cockpit. It will be a bit raised but it will not really show.

Step 6: Take 4 square shaped (will get the size when I get back home) rods of plasticard and glue the till the over hang the model past the Ion Engine on the top and bottom. Once dry trim till they are flush with the body not the engine. Next take two small lengths of the same rod and put on each side of the engine and trim flush with the top and bottom rods.

Step 7: Take the forward wing cuts and trim the solor panel side till smooth. Just getting rid of the big bumps. Dry fit each cut to the top and bottom of the model resting on the 4 rods with the non-solor panel side facing up and trim it with the cockpit curve. You might hace to trim the length down but it should cover most of the new rods length.

Step 8: The same rods to make the engines were ised to make the new verticle wing supports. Then very thin plasticard was ised to make the new braces on the solor panels. A small piece of rod was used to make the raised center support on the wings.

Step 9: the missile launchers were made from 6 lengths of plasticard cuttings just long enough to cover the holes in the support. Then two square rod pieces on each side inbetween the three length wise plasticard cuts. Once glued into place and dried then a verticle plasticard cuts and trimmed flush are added to the ends.

Step 10: Lastly four small slivers of round plasticard rods (size coming later) are glue to each end square rod piece (one at each end.)

Step 11: The paint used was a Testors Enamel paint I will get the color when I get back home. The beam weapon color was just Ultramarine Blue.

I have 4 advanced, so 1 will be sacrificed to the machine god on your plans here, will let you know if I have any specific questions as I go through, but thanks for taking the I know it take a while to write that kind of thing up believe me!

Cheers!

NP. When I get home I will find the sizes of the plasticard and the color paint I used to match the fighter. I know it was a testors enamel paint for painting model ships. I know, testors but the Hobbytown USA had all their paints three years ago at 25 cents a piece. To good of a deal to pass up and I have used them for small things that need an odd color. The work well but really runny.

Ok, with my Corellian Corvette model done, and a custom x-wing style huge acrylic base ordered, I am nearly ready to start playtesting the rules for it.

2 things, one piece of info, one request -

1. I came across these move templates for large scale ships on BoardgameGeeks -
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/90741/huge-ship-maneuver-template

2. Wanna help playtest???
I am not super experienced in methodically figuring out the best way to balance rules. Anyone could test the corvette rules with me, by simply using a 16X7 rectangular cutout and taking note of the rules as proposed and then tweaking away. I think it could be a good exercise to get a set down to base other larger ships on.

Chime in if you are up to try something new with the game!

Besides the proposed rules on pg1 post 1, which will need adjustment as I now have more experience with the game, I also realize that a ship this size will need some new kind of collision/overlap rules. It will be nearly impossible not to hit other ships at some point in a game, but making it stop it's movement along the arc for every bump will mean effectively deadlocking it will be completely 100% effective and easy for the opponent... something needs to be different...

I am wondering 2 things as viable ways to adjust -
Displace smaller ships in the way, maintaining their facing but allowing them to be placed adjacent to the Corvette, bases touching, anywhere along their x axis line. IE, you can move em in a straight line directly left or directly right as per your preference until you are off the Corvette base. Ships can still shoot at each other regardless of base contact with a Large ship.

OR

Give the opponent ships a reason to steer clear. The Corvette would be extremely slow and only capable of 2 moves essentially, a 1 forward and a bank forward (see boardgamegeeks linked pdf to understand how that would work with the large ship and new templates, it is a longer distance than you think), making them at least reasonably predictable. A fighter colliding with a large ship under any circumstances rolls 2 attack dice and takes the results with no saves allowed of any kind. Fighter is then displaced to the nearest point of the Corvette base edge and cannot shoot the corvette for the remainder of the turn.

The 2nd may be a good option as the ship is so big and slow, and low/no agility, that making it at least tricky to manoeuvre around it, but not tricky to hit it, may be a good solution?

I'll see if I can give them a try next time we play, particularly as I just picked up that model.
I think my group would mostly be interested from a scenario perspective, but that's still all about balance.

On that not has anyone tried any campaign type Xwing play? Nothing heavy record keeping wise, just something to tie scenarios together.

Not yet, but there are several interesting options it seems... Another guy I play with is dying to start playing more missions.

I was bouncing around the idea of campaign play, having people take control of a small yet inexperienced squadron of pilots, the problem is that the rookies from each side still aren't balanced... I also don't know enough about the game to feel comfortable writing something up like that.

 MajorTom11 wrote:
Ok, with my Corellian Corvette model done, and a custom x-wing style huge acrylic base ordered, I am nearly ready to start playtesting the rules for it.

2 things, one piece of info, one request -

1. I came across these move templates for large scale ships on BoardgameGeeks -
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/90741/huge-ship-maneuver-template

2. Wanna help playtest???
I am not super experienced in methodically figuring out the best way to balance rules. Anyone could test the corvette rules with me, by simply using a 16X7 rectangular cutout and taking note of the rules as proposed and then tweaking away. I think it could be a good exercise to get a set down to base other larger ships on.

Chime in if you are up to try something new with the game!

Besides the proposed rules on pg1 post 1, which will need adjustment as I now have more experience with the game, I also realize that a ship this size will need some new kind of collision/overlap rules. It will be nearly impossible not to hit other ships at some point in a game, but making it stop it's movement along the arc for every bump will mean effectively deadlocking it will be completely 100% effective and easy for the opponent... something needs to be different...

I am wondering 2 things as viable ways to adjust -
Displace smaller ships in the way, maintaining their facing but allowing them to be placed adjacent to the Corvette, bases touching, anywhere along their x axis line. IE, you can move em in a straight line directly left or directly right as per your preference until you are off the Corvette base. Ships can still shoot at each other regardless of base contact with a Large ship.

OR

Give the opponent ships a reason to steer clear. The Corvette would be extremely slow and only capable of 2 moves essentially, a 1 forward and a bank forward (see boardgamegeeks linked pdf to understand how that would work with the large ship and new templates, it is a longer distance than you think), making them at least reasonably predictable. A fighter colliding with a large ship under any circumstances rolls 2 attack dice and takes the results with no saves allowed of any kind. Fighter is then displaced to the nearest point of the Corvette base edge and cannot shoot the corvette for the remainder of the turn.

The 2nd may be a good option as the ship is so big and slow, and low/no agility, that making it at least tricky to manoeuvre around it, but not tricky to hit it, may be a good solution?

My battle report in this forum (linked earlier in this thread) has some ideas for playing the corvette along with thoughts after tweaking for two games. I hadn't caught the movement templates and may try them out the next time although the turn looks like way too much movement for the capital ship just from a quick look. I did damage dice equal to the original hull and it frankly was a bit too much if it's unopposed. I think after two games that the best middle ground is attack=hull versus defense dice with the fighter unable to attack the corvette if touching. That's at least what I'll be trying when I run the scenario again after wave 3 comes out.

I think some kind of vulnerability in particular to torpedos would be a good rule to add... I can just picture tie bombers making a torpedo run at it as the other ships provide screening... drool

Bloody hell! Where did you get the Corellian Corvette Major Tom?

It's a Collector Fleet Blockade Runner toy that he's spiffed out with a custom paint job and bits. Someone on boardgamegeek came up with the idea and its taken off in the past year.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I think some kind of vulnerability in particular to torpedos would be a good rule to add... I can just picture tie bombers making a torpedo run at it as the other ships provide screening... drool

I suspect the new advanced proton torpedoes that roll 5 dice will be the anti-capital ship weapons of choice. I'd be hesitant to make them any better though without trying them first. Are you using the "armor" type mechanic instead of dodging for the corvette?

Check the first post of the resources thread for a treasure trove

Previous response was eaten so heres the abridged version.
This is based on no playtesting at all.
PS 0 or some sort of Very Large Ship split movement/shooting PS system. Every other ship should be able to react to their movement IMO.
Agility 0 seems more 'right' to me than 1.
I'd suggest that the Corvette moves any ship it collides with as described by MajorTom. No actions for the smaller ships that collide with the Corvette, but no collision damage. Instead the Corvette adds a red dice to any attack against enemy ships in contact. Shooting is not restricted for ships in contact in any way.

Ah OK thanks warboss and Majortom - very interesting thread! Looks like I will be drawn into this game still further..

 Pacific wrote:
Ah OK thanks warboss and Majortom - very interesting thread! Looks like I will be drawn into this game still further..

It really is a well designed system for what it does. Obviously, I wouldn't use it for role playing but its good for a rules light but still deep low model count minis game. One thing I'd recommend is occasionally playing with the objective missions as well as asteroids. Straight up kill missions in wide open space tends to favor certain builds that are already fairly powerful (like TIE spam) without making them come out of their playstyle comfort zone. Once you get to know the rules well enough (3-4 games IMO), alternating between game types is quite rewarding.

So is that one the closest to scale or are there other models that require assembly?

Just curious.

@Talon: Are you talking about the correllian corvette? If so, it's the closest one in scale for a reasonable price (it's usually around $20-35 but should be about 1/3 bigger). There is a bigger model out there but it costs a couple hundred dollars. There also is a resin Republic cruiser model (the EP1 ship Qui Gon arrives in) that is a closer scale but that one is usually around $150 as well. That's about it for the capital ships that are feasibly usable on the average tabletop that I found in a search a few months back.

Yea, the Corvette/Blockade Runner.

Ebay prices for the thing are all over the place. Just curious if there's other models for it that are either less costly or more detailed.

I think there was a list on BGG that had the rough measurements of all kinds of ships that included some EU stuff.

The Corvette can be found relatively cheaply, and it should be 18", it is 16", so it really is very, very close, far closer than 1/3 off!

TalonZahn wrote:Yea, the Corvette/Blockade Runner.

Ebay prices for the thing are all over the place. Just curious if there's other models for it that are either less costly or more detailed.

I think there was a list on BGG that had the rough measurements of all kinds of ships that included some EU stuff.

http://randycoopermodels.com/content/blockade-runner-0

You could buy the bigger one.

MajorTom11 wrote:The Corvette can be found relatively cheaply, and it should be 18", it is 16", so it really is very, very close, far closer than 1/3 off!

150m at 1/270 scale = .555m = 21.9in. Do you have a different set of statistics for the Tantive IV?

I'll be damned you're right! I never did the calculation myself, I saw the ship on the BGG forums and they were discussing scale etc and what convinced me to pick it up was the small stated difference between 16/18...

But so it is you are right, just shy of 1/3 off... which, in all honesty, is tough to believe becasue the ship is HUGE as it is... If you look at the size of the cock-pits in x-wings etc, and then compare to the bridge windows and escape pods everything looks pretty spot on, I almost prefer this size over a substantially bigger ship! Also will make it easier to manage on table...

Wow, just sitting her picturing a 22 inch ship... too big! Too big! lol

Thanks for correcting me though, I am not happy spreading bad info!

No worries... I just didn't know if it was a source discrepancy like with the A-wing. I agree that the ship is plenty big enough.

Ok, so everything is done for the corvette, so time to start playtesting! I am copying and pasting from my P and M blog here -

Note the pilot card and stats I put on for my first round of testing.. realized with the size of it would need to address obstacles too, so I made it 'displace obstacles' in the same way it does fighters on overlap. Pilot abilities also specifies attacker and defender both roll double dice when the ship is attacked with missiles or torpedos... really want to encourage a secondary layer to a game with this ship in it of torpedo runs and or screening... I think I may make a rule that the ship requires 2 front arc target locks, forcing most bombers to run at it in a straight line for 2 turns before firing, again for flavor...

Here you are, base first -







With custom card insert -





Needs a bit more trimming but it worked, 'glued' it down with latex masking fluid, which when dry will come right off if I want it to.

Here is a view of the card and the ship template for clarity -

Love the Corvette, Tom . Space battles need a bigger ship, even if this isn't really a "Capital" one... very, very nice!