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Hello Everyone,

me and two of my Friends want to start Infinity. I consider to start with PanOceania and the following List:

PANOCEANIA
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 9 0 0

TEUTONIC KNIGHT Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 42)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
CRUSADER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (26)
CRUSADER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (26)
COMANDO AKAL Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 35)
MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (15)
CUTTER MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 117)

3.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open with Army 4



By now i read more then once not to start with 300 Points and i think i wont do my first few Games with it but we want to Order a larger Army right away to be flexible.

I was thinking of getting the Military Oders Starter Pack, Cutter, Support Pack, 2 x Crusader Brethren & Akalis Hacker

Any suggestions on this?

Tiraga wrote:
Hello Everyone,

me and two of my Friends want to start Infinity. I consider to start with PanOceania and the following List:

PANOCEANIA
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 9 0 0

TEUTONIC KNIGHT Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 42)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
CRUSADER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (26)
CRUSADER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (26)
COMANDO AKAL Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, CCW. (0.5 | 35)
MACHINIST Combi Rifle, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (15)
CUTTER MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 117)

3.5 SWC | 300 Points

Open with Army 4



By now i read more then once not to start with 300 Points and i think i wont do my first few Games with it but we want to Order a larger Army right away to be flexible.

I was thinking of getting the Military Oders Starter Pack, Cutter, Support Pack, 2 x Crusader Brethren & Akalis Hacker

Any suggestions on this?

Welcome to the addiction.

Yup, it is recommend that you start off at a lower points (150 is the usual candidate) game when learning the rules. With that being said, here are a couple of thoughts on your list:

1) There are a lot of special rules involved with those units. Off the top of my head we have TO Camo with the Cutter, Airborne deployment with the Crusader brethren, and then hacking with the commando. That's a lot to learn, even if you did drop to a small points number.

2) The best hackers (in my opinion) to take for PanO are a Kamau Hacker or Gabe de Fersen. The Kamau cause it has the highest WIP for the lowest cost, and De Fersen because he has the highest WIP.

3) Religious troops have a special rule that applies to them when you're in LoL or Retreat.

4) Military Order sectorial is (once more my opinion) one of the tricky sectorials to use within PanO as it has a lot of expensive heavy hitting troops. Especially once you start using the knights.

5) I wouldn't recommend using the Teutonic Knight as the Lt option. These guys are heavy hitters and best if used in that role, especially if you can get him into CC.


Despite the concerns noted above, this could be a viable Military Order list. Although, the Akalis can't be used with the Military Order Sectorial. So you would need to rework it if you really wanted a hacker. As a note, you don't need a hacker to run a TAG.

But, as the motto goes "It's not the list, it's how you play."

Hi,
Welcome to Infinity and one of my favourite Super-Powers! Your list is not legal for a normal PanO-list because of the AVA of the Sergeants. If you like the knights, you should go for the sectorial list. I think this list will first of all be hard to handle for beginners like Zeta wrote because you´ll have a lot of special equipment (Hackers, TO, TAG, jumping troops). This will make it a bit complicated to play. The other side is that some parts of the list are very overpowered against a new player. The Cutter and the Brethren are pain in the ass for a beginning enemy. I personaly would go fore more line troops and some specialists and about 150-200 points size to learn the game. In the beginning jumping troops will win whole games against a player who doesn´t know how to save his troops and that can be very frustrating in the beginning. Later you´ll learn that every model in Infinity can be killed very easily even if it´s a TO-Camo-Killer-Machine....


Have fun, it´s a great game.

Ok, i understand the Concers about the many special Rules but on the other Hand i always read for Building a Army just get the Models you like so im a bit confused now. Why is it possible to build a illegal List with the Programm?

In the end i'm looking for a List wich is easy to scale, with one of the TAG Units at higher Points (preferable Cutter or Jotums), no Fusiliers if possible (dont like the Look) and some "Knight looking" Miniatures

No use going MO either if he wants that cutter though; that's not part of the MO sectorial (boh afaik and according to toolbox).

While I disagree that 150 would be an ideal start (I vastly prefer 200 for pano let alone MO ish lists...) 300 with this amount of funky rules is probably a bad idea. Can be done, but be prepared to memorize a lot of rules and lose quite a few games badly before you can make it work

Tiraga wrote:
Ok, i understand the Concers about the many special Rules but on the other Hand i always read for Building a Army just get the Models you like so im a bit confused now. Why is it possible to build a illegal List with the Programm?

In the end i'm looking for a List wich is easy to scale, with one of the TAG Units at higher Points (preferable Cutter or Jotums), no Fusiliers if possible (dont like the Look) and some "Knight looking" Miniatures

Haven´t used the ArmyBuilder 4.0 yet. The AVA gives you some restristions about army building so far. "Just get the models you like" is often used because there are no models in Infinity useless. Just throw one of the sergeants out of the list and the army list is okay. You could also throw out the hacker and the seargent and have 48 points to get something else, like Kamau Hacker or a Nisse with HMG (has a MSV Lvl02 against enemy Camo troops). For line troops you also could use Auxilias (with these nice little Auxbots) or Regulars...ah so many decisions.

Where´re you from? Perhaps you would like to test some things and I always look for new players....

Tiraga wrote:
Ok, i understand the Concers about the many special Rules but on the other Hand i always read for Building a Army just get the Models you like so im a bit confused now. Why is it possible to build a illegal List with the Programm?

In the end i'm looking for a List wich is easy to scale, with one of the TAG Units at higher Points (preferable Cutter or Jotums), no Fusiliers if possible (dont like the Look) and some "Knight looking" Miniatures

You know what, you're absolutely right. Go for the models you like, and then build from there. Ours were more like suggestions as to where you might want to start.

As to an illegal list, you need to double check the AVA for a particular unit. The AVA stands for availability and it limits how many of a particular unit you can take in a non-sectorial vs a sectorial. In this case, the Akalis Commando is not available to Military Orders, while the Order Sergeants only have a AVA of 2 when not using the Military Order sectorial.

Here is a 150 point Military Order list that is easily expandable, doesn't use Fusiliers, and has at least one "knight." Feel free to change it up or, adjust to what you might want to do with it.

MILITARY ORDERS
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 6 0 0

ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Lieutenant MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (48)
ORDER SERGEANT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
SPEC. SERGEANT (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
SPEC. SERGEANT (G: Synchronized) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (17)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse.

3 SWC | 143 Points

Open with Army 4

If you want to use the Cutter or Jotum (I have one and love it) then you can't do the Military Order sectorial as those units are not allowed. The Order Sergeants can be used in the normal PanO list, but they're more expensive and have a AVA of 2.


As I said, these are just recommendations as to what you might want to consider.

Thanks for the Advice so far, i think ill get the Military Order Starter and a Knight of Santiago with Spitfire to replace him with the Teutonic Knight as Lieutenant

MILITARY ORDERS
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 6 0 1

KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant Spitfire, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)
MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (27)
ORDER SERGEANT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)

2.5 SWC | 144 Points

Open with Army 4

After some Games i want to Expand the List with Crusaders but not sure what else:

MILITARY ORDERS
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 7 0 0

KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant Spitfire, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)
CRUSADER Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (26)
CRUSADER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
ORDER SERGEANT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 27)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)

4 SWC | 178 Points

Open with Army 4


And if i stay Military Order i wont be able to use the TAG Units what would be a good replacement for a Game with 300 Points?

P.S @medusa i'm from Bonn

There´s a TAG for the Military Orders, there´s just no model for it right now. It´s the Seraph. So in some time, you´ll be able to use a TAG if you like.
The Knight of Santiago is a nice little guy. You´ll be handle him carefuly because of Frenzy. After he killed his first model he will get impetous what means he´ll get a free order. But with this order he´ll have to get closer to the enemy. As loosing your lieutenant is really bad for you, this can be a bit tricky. But you can use him of course, just keep that in mind. Another nice model to get a non impetous lieutenant is the Knight of the Holy Sepulchre. A real badass cause of his Holoprojektor Lvl02...there you have two choices, playing him with two Holo echoes making him harder to hit or place another model instead of him on the table to trick your enemy...

I´m from Bochum, so this will be a bit far I think...

OK good to know any suggestions what to use till then?

In case that there´s no model you also could prox the Seraph, most players won´t have a problem with that. The 85 points for the little guy give you oportunities for about 2 other knights (one Magister and a specialised one...) ore some remotes and a hacker. I love playing Buleteers, but there are so many choices in the lists, you´ll have to look what fits best to your playstyle and army lists. I´m one of the players who tries to buy all of the models of the army I play to have enough choices (Corvus Belli will make me bankrupted...).

You´ll have keep in mind the SWC special weapon support cost. Every heavy or special weapon, hacker, etc has a SWC, you get 1 point SWC for every 50 points in your list. With 150 points you´re able to take 3 points SWC.

How important is it to have a Variation of Weapons or doesn't this matter?

Tiraga wrote:
How important is it to have a Variation of Weapons or doesn't this matter?

Mmmhhh...
Most of the Sergeants will use Combi Rifles. If you play a link/fireteam with them (adding up to five models of same type to a group, moving and fighting togehter) you´ll go for a Spitfire for one of them. Spitfires are great choices also HMGs and Missile Launchers to get Heavys down. I think it depends on the trooper how important his weapon is. A guy with a visor is good taking out enemy Camos, so go for HMG, Sniper or Spitfire. A combat jumper will often get closer to enemy troops, you could use Boarding Shotguns or Flamethrowers. But HMG is real good for them, too...
PanO lacks of template weapons and the Militia Orders lack of a lot of technical equipment like visors, Camo, etc. These specialists will all come from the sergeants ranks. The Knights are all specialized Heavy Infantry often bringing fight to the enemy. So they are often the most heavy equipped troopers, while the sergeants do the other work. You´ll have only two choices for hackers. The cheap sergeant and the pricy but hard Gabriele de Fersen (fantastic model and stats IMO).

The Militia Order is NOT a Close Combat Army in my opinion but heavy Infantry with a lot of fire power even if they all have swords....
It´s not only the weapon but also the combination of weapon, stats and equipment/skills. To know every good combination you´ll have to play some smaller games testing some of the stuff. I always use a visor, some heavy weapons (Spitfire,HMG, etc.) and a hacker to use remotes and fight back hacker attacks against my knights. I didn´t use the Crusader till now but I think he is a very nice choice to flank the enemy lines...

Ok i guess then i'll start with the 150 Pts posted above or a Variation of it and buy the Miniatures to try this 300 Pts List later:

MILITARY ORDERS
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10 0 1

KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant Spitfire, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)
CRUSADER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (26)
CRUSADER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
TEUTONIC KNIGHT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (42)
MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (27)
SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
SPEC. SERGEANT (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)

6 SWC | 296 Points

Open with Army 4

consider having a doctor and a palbot or two somewhere. they really can make a lot of other investments go thát much further in my experience

Hi,
You could change one of the sergeants for a doctor-father (trauma-doc) using one of the sergeants giving him a red cross or something. So you don´t need to buy the Trauma-Doc mini which doesn´t fit into the range of the Knights. Would fit into the list I think...

Yeah tried it and it fits with one additional Palbot (for wich i need the to buy the complete Support Pack afaik)as well:
MILITARY ORDERS
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 10 0 1

KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant Spitfire, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)
TEUTONIC KNIGHT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (42)
MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (27)
CRUSADER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (26)
CRUSADER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (13)
SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
SPEC. SERGEANT (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
TRAUMA-DOC Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (14)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (3)

6 SWC | 300 Points

Open with Army 4



I also made some other List but for that i need to spend about 50€ more^^;;

MILITARY ORDERS
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 9 0 0

KNIGHT OF SANTIAGO Lieutenant Spitfire, E/M Grenades / Pistol, AP CCW. (1 | 51)
CRUSADER Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (26)
CRUSADER HMG / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 35)
SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration) MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 39)
SPEC. SERGEANT Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)
SPEC. SERGEANT (Multispectral Visor L2) Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 25)
SPEC. SERGEANT (G: Synchronized) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (17)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse.
SPEC. SERGEANT (G: Synchronized) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_1 / Pistol, Knife. (17)
AUXBOT_1 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse.
KNIGHT HOSPITALLER Doctor MULTI Rifle / Pistol, AP CCW. (52)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (3)
PALBOT Electric Pulse. (3)

6 SWC | 293 Points

Open with Army 4

Look in some Fantasy shops, perhaps you´ll find an old blister of palbots. They have been repacked to the support box. If you´re lucky you´ll find one...

I like the second list even if your enemy will find out your lieutenant fast (it´s real obvious because the Santiago is the only model who can be lieutenant) . I´ll try this...

medusa wrote:
Look in some Fantasy shops, perhaps you´ll find an old blister of palbots. They have been repacked to the support box. If you´re lucky you´ll find one...

I like the second list even if your enemy will find out your lieutenant fast (it´s real obvious because the Santiago is the only model who can be lieutenant) . I´ll try this...

Actually, the Knight Hospitaller can be a lieutenant as well. And in terms of Lt's for the Military Orders, the Hopspitaller LT doesn't have a SWC cost. The only other option for that with the Military order is the Fusilier. Although there might be at least one more Knight that has a lieutenant option without a SWC. This is, of course, ignoring Joan of Arc's +1.

Personally, I wouldn't run just a single Magister Knight because once you've used up the Panzerfaust, that unit is really only useful in CC. Although, running them in a link team can be pretty devastating, especially when you have the full 5 units.

With your second list, you might be able to make a link team with those Order Sergeants. But I'm not sure if it works with the specialist ones. To be fair....link teams might be a little much when first starting out though. =P

Link doesn´t work with the specialists.

medusa wrote:
Link doesn´t work with the specialists.

That's what I thought. I haven't spent too much time using link teams, as I stick mostly to vanilla PanO. Good to know though.

Zeta Ockham wrote:
To be fair....link teams might be a little much when first starting out though. =P

Think so, too. There are a lot of rules to learn in the lists. But later you could swap the specialists for the normal guys to get a proper link. Magister Knights are a good but expensive (money and points) as link. If you use the light Shotgun options you would have a weapon for the whole game to use the one in the starter.

Oh...I was surfing on battlefield-berlin. They have the old blister of palbots in stock, just as an information...