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So with my Khador making its slow crawl to being a fieldable force me and my friend are trying to decide what i shuld get get for them. My choices are limited to these 5.
Pikemen, Uhlans, Man0war and varients.
Pikemen.
Pros
Great heavy Infantry/light jack weapon
Decent spd with a 11 inch threat range when charging.
Awesome UA
shield wall
Con
Expensivee points/ money wise

Uhlans.
Pros
Great SPD with a 13 inch threat when charging
Awesome weapon
Calvary(I love Calvary)
Sheild wall w/o it having to be a order
Reach
Cons
100$ for a full unit
Lance can only be used on the charge., so they hae to wipe the unit out on the charge
expensive points wis

Man-0-war
Pros
Reach(Except Bombadier)
Fearless
ranged and melee
High Arm
full units are cheap as dirt
Con
Low speed.
For man-o-war im leaning towards bombadiers so i can use fortune with harkevich. I not a fan of shock troopers but I like demo corps.
One other thing, Im think eAlexia to go with these units to help her reap souls to summon more killy things.
Thanks for any replies.

I will nominate Pikemen on impulse, but I'm curious to get a rundown of what you currently have. Threat range is really important in this game, and the difference in survivability between a full unit of pikemen and a unit of bombardiers is actually tilted toward the pikemen.

Right now I have the battlebox, Widow makers, decimater and harkevich.

Iron Fangs would be my shout. theyre always useful.

Uhlans are great, but being honest, id only ever take them in big games of 50pts.

men o war are very good, but need the right support to be truly great - eIrusk comes to mind, or possibly in Butchers theme.

Yeah, given what you've said, I'd certainly go Iron Fangs. You don't have any real rank-and-file infantry yet, and Widowmakers can provide some decent ranged anti-infantry. They're also far superior at jamming than the other options, and you have no other choices for that role yet.

I would suggest the IFP as well. Along with their 2 UAs and the new IFP Kovnik, they have a lot of nice little boosts, and can cause quite the bit of hurting to whatever they hit.

Be warned, however: Shield Wall is a trap more often then not. Know when it's better to scatter and set up for counter-charges. Also, if you do Shield Wall, make sure to do so in Trios of IFP. (That said, if you plan on getting the regular UA, be sure to read the most recent rulings on how the Defensive Formation Mini-Feat functions...it's not as cut and dry as one would think).


Regarding MoWs:
After trying to run an eIrusk list with them for a while, I've come to several conclusions:
*They're all slightly over-priced for what they can do.
*Stupid slow even with Tactical Supremacy
*DEF is so damn low that even Shield Wall (imo) doesn't provide _too_ much benefit.
*Shield Wall is a trap.
*IMO, a full unit of DC are the best buy of all of the MoW troops.
*IMO, Bombardiers are the worst buy of all the MoW troops (I think they're over-costed for what they can do, though admittedly, I've largely only run them against Circle lists, which is a really bad match-up).
*Overall, they're not the best of Heavy Infantry owing to their slowness and really low DEF
*More than anything else, they all could benefit from ways to boost their attacks (which Khador in general lacks - though DemoCorp can sort of make up for it by using Backswing).

So Man-O-Wars are not Kahdors version of terminators?
I was kinda hoping they would be they are the cheapest.

Go IFP, they have SPD, acceptable DEF, ARM and can be put into smaller games (25-35). Shocktroopers pay for a gun that isn't useful, and Bobardiers are to expensive for a game less than 50 points and Men-O-War are all slow.

Currently your army is a static gun platform or SPD 4, non-theme Khador armies must have kazay assassins, WGI, or IFP at 25+ points otherwise you can't get up the field fast enough. Ulhans could work but they require an understanding of how to use cavalry and any cavalry (real or properly done in game units) like to have a tarpit around.

Men-O-War are terminators when they are the second wave. Demo Corp will hurt anything in melee and bombardiers are decent heavy weapons but they need a meat shield to have a chance to do something.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So Man-O-Wars are not Kahdors version of terminators?
I was kinda hoping they would be they are the cheapest.

Like ChaoticMind says, MoW are very much 2nd line troops (namely 'cause there aren't too many ways to get them going too much faster). Demo Corp in particular, fill the 2nd line counter-charger role fantastically.

They are all, however, also very much suited for taking out low-med DEF small (in terms of quantities) units or jacks/beasts, though, as their MAT and (relative) lack of attacks aren't really suitable for trying to take out larger units.

From my experience, absent of some Attack/# of Attack + SPD/movement buffs, these guys should not be primary unit.

So pikemen it is then.
time to save up my lunch money.

The problem I have always had with the Demos is that I feel that the greatbears + manhunters/yuri fill the same role better. They might not be as hard to kill but they have much more lethal offense, high MAT across the board, all weapon masters with two attacks (or thresher in Yuri's case). Manhunters are stealth and pathfinder as well and they all have great mobility. However, I like the look/feel of those units rather than the MoW too, they might not fit into the theme you are going for in your army.

Great bears where also an idea. But i rea they are very finesse. so im waiting

KingKodo wrote:
The problem I have always had with the Demos is that I feel that the greatbears + manhunters/yuri fill the same role better. They might not be as hard to kill but they have much more lethal offense, high MAT across the board, all weapon masters with two attacks (or thresher in Yuri's case). Manhunters are stealth and pathfinder as well and they all have great mobility. However, I like the look/feel of those units rather than the MoW too, they might not fit into the theme you are going for in your army.

Those are countercharge units that usually go good with a winterguard deathstar or kazazay, they weren't one of the options

How are black dragon pikemen?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How are black dragon pikemen?

REALLY espensive $$wise, and are pretty much a better, more elite version of them

So no then
So I guess im going pikemen. Full or half unit?

 Grundz wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How are black dragon pikemen?

REALLY espensive $$wise, and are pretty much a better, more elite version of them

Well....a bit more expensive, but I wouldn't say prohibitively much more so.

Regarding 'better'....depends on what you need out of your guys. If you're looking for very mobile all-comers, I would say the regular IFP are your guys. If you need something a bit more rugged to take an alpha-charge from some enemy elites/jacks/beasts, the Black Dragons are more useful. It really kind of depends on what you prefer/need them to do (I find the Pathfinder on the Charge a lot more useful than the Precision Strike of the BDs most of the time, though the BD's Mini-Feat is undoubtedly superior to the regular UA's Mini-Feat).

Re: full/half....I would honestly go with a full unit. They're really worthwhile troops for the points, and you really can't discount how good Crit. Knockdowns can be (especially when you have a way to get an extra die on the attack).

I never did like the beer guts on the Man-O-wars anyway.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also i guess get the kovnik aswell?

Yes! The Kovnik is pretty awesome.

Giving Iron Fangs (meaning any and all Iron Fang units - Pikemen, Uhlans, Great Bears, etc) immunity to KDs + allowing the Shield March Order = awesome.

Not to mention adding a weaponmaster attack into the mix. Highly recommended if you're running IFP (though not necessary).

Yes, Iron Fang Kovnik is a useful little 2 point solo.

Now one question, I want to run eAlexia.
Would she work well with IFP in terms that they could give her souls?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Now one question, I want to run eAlexia.
Would she work well with IFP in terms that they could give her souls?

Better than she would have with the Man O Wars IMO, because there are more souls to be had, and they die quicker so you get them earlier.

I just wish pikemen would be cheaper

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Now one question, I want to run eAlexia.
Would she work well with IFP in terms that they could give her souls?

eAlexia only gets souls from enemy models, so it doesn't matter.

I mean which would get her souls the fastest.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I mean which would get her souls the fastest.

Probably IFP then, for the simple fact they'll get to the fight quicker so that they can start racking up the body count sooner. eAlexia is kind of niche though, since you're depending on your opponent to bring a list that she can feed off of.

I love Calvary and I love her model. I would most likely just use it in friedly games with buddies when i know what they bring

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I love Calvary and I love her model. I would most likely just use it in friedly games with buddies when i know what they bring

Fair enough. You've mentioned cost as an issue so I just figured it was worth mentioning if you need to prioritize spending.

cost isnt a major issue, but I didnt want to buy man-o-wars, pikemen or others if i find myself just loathing them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
cost isnt a major issue, but I didnt want to buy man-o-wars, pikemen or others if i find myself just loathing them.

Having run both MoW-heavy lists and similar lists replacing the MoWs with IFP....I've found the IFP really nice for the points. Takes some getting used to but they're solid troops.