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Hey there.

I've been a long time reader and I'm a first time poster and I'm hoping that I can get a little advice.

I'm an avid gamer who mainly plays card games such as Magic and World of Warcraft. I've also played a number of other card games.

I've never played any miniatures game other than the WoW Minis but I've always been interested. After doing some research I've been looking into Hordes and Warmachine pretty heavily. It seems to be a good mix of miniatures as well as similar enough to a trading card game in scope of abilities and lore that I can relate to it.

I've recently found two other players who would be willing to give it a try but none of us are really miniatures players. Because of that to start off with we won't be purchasing any miniatures until we get a feel for the game. Because of my location I don't have anyone local to learn from so we decided to just sit down and use the free quick start rules and the cards featured in them to test the game. We are going to be using some of my WoW Minis in place of the actual minis for now just to test it.

Any recommendation on factions that would mesh well with the three of us?

With that in mind I was wondering if anyone had any advice on anything I should keep in mind when testing or about any of the supplies we'll need.

Another question I have is how the game differs with three people. We will be doing a multiplayer setting to start with just for the fun of it and to learn the game together. Any advice on that?

Also, any advice on a scenario to play and setting up terrain/size would be a great help. I'll be fashioning some terrain/a field on some card board I have just as a simple way to run through and test.

Thanks again,

Nautilak

Its impossible for us to recommend factions without us knowing what you look for in battle

Do you want a fast mobile army that relies on attacking from the shadows? One that emphasizes on gunning down their foes? Maybe you just want to be the toughest mofo out there? Hell maybe you dont even care how an army plays as long as they look fabulous while doing so


3 men free for all in my PERSONAL experience, with not only this game but hundreds of others usually end up in 2 ways
1 - 2vs1, two people gang up on one person, then its a game of chicken to figure out when the betrayal will happen
2 - 1vs1 while the 3rd man watches and cleans up at the end

I would look through the Privateer Press Websites and find the models that most appeal to each of you then check the War Room which is an iPad/and believe Android App and spend $7 for the army you like. Use the figures you have or cut out pieces of cardboard of appropriate size and use those to determine where you guys want to go from there.

And yes, a 3 person thing is difficult. However a plus of Warmachine/Hordes is that once you get a hold of the rules it is a faster game then any GW game. You can crank out a 15-25pt game in an hour tops, whereas my 1250 fantasy game the other day took over 2 hours and 1250 is a very small point game. So the odd man out will not wait too long for his game. And in the beginning it is nice to have someone with the rulebook looking stuff up, in fact I've probably learned more doing that and losing then I have winning games.

Hey there. Thanks so much for the replies.

@Talamare Rightly so and apologies, I believe I worded my question ineffectively. They haven't looked into it as much as I have so I'm kind of casting the ballet of who the three of us use. If they like it then it will get more into a point of faction selection. For now I just kind of wanted three factions that would play *well* with each other. Such as I didn't want a mix of Circle, Legion and then someone with barely any ability to handle terrain or to put in a single faction to reap every soul coming and going to load up.

If it helps, because I understand for the most part that factions are balanced with each other but I wanted to try and achieve similar footing with the three, I can give you a rundown.

One player enjoys playing aggression and them with a few combat tricks. Another enjoys smashing face and not much else. Also for that player nothing visually like Skorne. Also, nothing with 'negatives' in that batch. For myself I'm very much put into control and manipulation. I also like aggressive manipulation too though, not just straight control. I also enjoy attrition.

To that end I was thinking something like Legion, Trollbloods and Menoth.
I'm pretty sure the second player will like Trolls but the first and myself I'm unsure.
Also the first player is Hordes only for now.

As for three player we usually play three player together and are better at picking threats than most. We usually always have a different winner and we aren't too scared to committing instead of playing cat and mouse.

@Hargus56

Thank! I was actually using the War Room app and the free content. I've peeked around on a lot of sites. As for the rules advice I thank you but we would generally play it for the multiplayer aspect so we wouldn't do a lot of 1v1 for now I think.

I mainly want to make sure it's a balanced go with the factions and terrain and make sure I have everything we need for it.

Thanks again.

proxying a few games before you buy in is a great idea. you can use the official quickstart rules found here:
http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/the-game
http://privateerpress.com/hordes/the-game

It is advised to stick to all players playing one game or another and not mixing the two until you are all comfortable with the rules for both. The two games play well enough against each other but it can be very confusing for new players to handle their resource differently than their opponent.

three-player games may be difficult to balance due to the high-offense nature of the game. getting charged by a model from both opponents will kill almost anything in the game. You can try mixing a few in but start out with two or three two-player games to get a feel for how the game flows before adding the chaotic element of a third player.

Scenarios are important for warmachine and most players use scenarios from the steamroller tournament pack.
http://privateerpress.com/files/Steamroller_2013_lowres_0.pdf

The document is big and a bit intimidating but for casual games you only need the scenario reverence sheets (pages 6 and 7) and the sheet for the scenario you are playing. I recommend scenario 1: destruction, scenario 2: supply and demand, scenario 3: close quarters, and scenario 4: ammunition run for low points games. (pages 8 - 11)

The supplies you will need are:
*proxy bases in the appropriate sizes for each model. The sizes should be as precise as possible. (30mm for warcasters, warlocks, and legion lessers; 40mm for lights, the troll warlock, and scenario flags; and 50mm for heavies and scenario objectives) [save these after you get models to use as wreck markers]
*five dice of one color and one die of a second color (preferably a set of dice for each player)
*a tape measure in inches (preferably one for each player)
*templates for area attacks and sprays. This link is for a set you can print and cut out https://app.box.com/shared/a8qpayzuad
*scenario zones (a 12" diameter circle and a 6"x12" rectangle)
*terrain is not covered in the quickstart rules but if you dive in to the full rules you will want a functionally diverse terrain collection.

Nautilak wrote:
Hey there. Thanks so much for the replies.

@Talamare Rightly so and apologies, I believe I worded my question ineffectively. They haven't looked into it as much as I have so I'm kind of casting the ballet of who the three of us use. If they like it then it will get more into a point of faction selection. For now I just kind of wanted three factions that would play *well* with each other. Such as I didn't want a mix of Circle, Legion and then someone with barely any ability to handle terrain or to put in a single faction to reap every soul coming and going to load up.

If it helps, because I understand for the most part that factions are balanced with each other but I wanted to try and achieve similar footing with the three, I can give you a rundown.

One player enjoys playing aggression and them with a few combat tricks. Another enjoys smashing face and not much else. Also for that player nothing visually like Skorne. Also, nothing with 'negatives' in that batch. For myself I'm very much put into control and manipulation. I also like aggressive manipulation too though, not just straight control. I also enjoy attrition.

To that end I was thinking something like Legion, Trollbloods and Menoth.
I'm pretty sure the second player will like Trolls but the first and myself I'm unsure.
Also the first player is Hordes only for now.

As for three player we usually play three player together and are better at picking threats than most. We usually always have a different winner and we aren't too scared to committing instead of playing cat and mouse.

@Hargus56

Thank! I was actually using the War Room app and the free content. I've peeked around on a lot of sites. As for the rules advice I thank you but we would generally play it for the multiplayer aspect so we wouldn't do a lot of 1v1 for now I think.

I mainly want to make sure it's a balanced go with the factions and terrain and make sure I have everything we need for it.

Thanks again.

One player enjoys playing aggression and them with a few combat tricks.
For player one, Hordes is pretty aggressive overall and Legion, Skorne and Circle would fit the current bill
Skorne is tough, has the highest damage, and has good amount of supports to help do tricks
Legion is fast and hard hitting, and many naturally negate a couple of rules
Circle is also fast and hit nearly as hard, but are just oozing with potential tricks

Another enjoys smashing face and not much else. Also for that player nothing visually like Skorne. Also, nothing with 'negatives' in that batch.
The kings of simplistic face smashing are Trolls and Khador, who are also insanely tough to boot
Tho if their Smashing isnt high enough, We quickly fall back to Legion or Skorne


For myself I'm very much put into control and manipulation. I also like aggressive manipulation too though, not just straight control. I also enjoy attrition.
Definitely sounds like Menoth player, Absolute masters of denial, but you might find a home in Cryx or Cygnar


As far as things like only one faction collecting souls or whatever... Honestly most factions don't even try to collect resources. Often times even when they do they might not even go after the same resource, one faction might want corpse tokens while another wants soul tokens

Cryx is the main faction that heavily goes after these tokens.

Every Army has the tools to beat every other army, but depending on how you build it can make things feel unfair

If one player only uses the 25 ARM Khador Jacks, while another player uses only low damage units that can't crack that Armor...
or if that same 25 ARM Khador guy fights against Skorne who cuts thru that like a knife thru butter...

but again, that is more on HOW you build your army, every army has tools to deal with it

Nautilak wrote:
One player enjoys playing aggression and them with a few combat tricks. Another enjoys smashing face and not much else. Also for that player nothing visually like Skorne. Also, nothing with 'negatives' in that batch. For myself I'm very much put into control and manipulation. I also like aggressive manipulation too though, not just straight control. I also enjoy attrition.

To that end I was thinking something like Legion, Trollbloods and Menoth.
I'm pretty sure the second player will like Trolls but the first and myself I'm unsure.
Also the first player is Hordes only for now.

Cryx can fall into all 3 groups fairly easily (though is not hordes).

For you and control/manipulation then the Haleys are also worth considering. eHaley is probably the most control/manipulation caster out there. I think her feat is probably the definition of control and manipulation.

Though how do you define control and manipulation? Do you mean controlling your opponents models and manipulating what they can and cannot do?

Thanks for all of your replies everyone. It's been a really big help. Also, apologies for any of my messages earlier if they seemed confusing. I sent them on my iPhone and I was in a hurry.

@Dais - Thank you so much Dais. That was the hard kind of list I needed to make sure I knew what I was getting in to. I was going to use the quickstart rules and try and build from there if we all like it. While I understand the idea of making it less complicated I think it will end up being myself playing a Warmachine Faction and the other two playing Hordes. This is so we can all see how Warmachine and Hordes both play just to get a feel of it.

Also, I respect your opinion and everyone else's on sticking to a 1v1. While it may be a bit more complicated to learn that way it would mainly be a three player affair for the most part for us. Because of that we really need to see how it will work for us with three players. I do thank you though and I will try and get in some 1v1 games if we do like it.

As for Scenarios I was already planning on it. I think it helps balance out ranged vs. melee and also allows some casters to really shine where they can't otherwise. A caster kill is always an option though so I don't worry about it hurting assassins either. It'll also give us a reason to go in and play instead of playing the odd man out and one of us moping up. I considered doing Supply and Demand and having each of us a supply cache.

As for the templates I was searching for those. I'd saw them before. Thanks!

For terrain I was really hoping to use those in the rules. To me it is important to know how terrain affects the game when it is such a big part of it from the get go or at least after a few games. Any advice on it?

@ Talamare - Thanks again. You've been a great help. I think we have decided to do Skorn, Legion and Menoth to start.

Any advice on a simple list for those to run with Supply and Demand? I'll more or less be doing the battle box type lists just to get our feet wet.

@ Mordekiem - Hey there. Thanks for the suggestion. Cryx and Haley are both something i'd considered but I think I want to try another step or two before I move into my attrition lists I assume i'll love with Cryx.

My ideal of Control and Manipulation applies to a few things. Board Control, Terrain Control, etc. All of it really matters. Terrain is one of my favorite things i'd love to do but most of it appears to be in circle. Any suggestions for some terrain shenanigans to learn with?

Thanks,

Nautilak

Well, aside from Circle which has some abilities that work around Forests there isn't much that specifically interacts with terrain.

Earthborn Dire Troll warbeasts get bonus abilities depending on what they are near, but not much else exists.

Legion's interaction with terrain is basically a lack of interaction. They all have Eyeless Sight, which means forests don't block LoS, and most also have Pathfinder, which means they aren't slowed by terrain. Legion's motto is basically "Where we're going, we don't need rules..."

Aside from that, terrain basically does the same thing for everybody.


Really, you are best off picking the faction that appeals to you the most visually and getting the battlebox. All factions are balanced so no worries on that end, although some boxes are better than others but only an experienced player could truly exploit that.

After you get your boxes, play lots of games with them. Learn the basic mechanics and slowly grow your collections from there.

I really REALLY think you should avoid three ways. While you can play that way, its not fair or balanced. Nor is it the intention for the game to work like that, some game effects can stop working how they are meant to if you add a third turn to each round.

Playing 1v1 with a third player watching isn't bad. They can watch and learn along with you, then play the next game. the little battlebox games you will start with will go pretty quick after you have the basics down.


For terrain, there are some very simple ways of getting it on the table. Buy some green felt, cut it into an irregular shape, and bam you have a forest.

You can also make ponds and rivers out of felt too. Even hills. Most terrain ends up with a very well defined edge so a simple felt outline will be sufficient for rules purposes.

Walls are another good terrain piece. They should be roughly 1" thick and 5-8" long. Most hobby stores will carry walls of some kind. Or you can build your own, or even make a felt outline.

My friend made walls out of popsicle sticks

Painted them up really well too

 Grey Templar wrote:
Walls are another good terrain piece. They should be roughly 1" thick and 5-8" long. Most hobby stores will carry walls of some kind. Or you can build your own, or even make a felt outline.

As a slight correction, Ye Olde Walle from the core book is .75" wide, although I'd probably go to a full 6" in length.

A wall can be any length as long as it is no more than 1" tall and less than 1" thick. The listing in the full rulebook is "linear obstacle."

Wall templates from the back of the book are .75" thick, 4" long, and up to 1" tall.

I'd just like to thank everyone who has given me a response to my posts. It has really helped me out.

In regards to terrain maybe I should have been more specific.

While I understand there isn't a large amount of specific abilities that benefit from terrain I have noticed a large amount of spells and theme lists seem to allow placement of terrain or obstacles.

Warcasters such as Mohsar and Baldur. I also seem to notice a lot of rough terrain on certain spells and feats and cloud placement. I may be naive in grouping it this way but I like to think of cloud and rough terrain placement, as well as placing obstacles as a form of terrain manipulation.

I guess to rephrase I enjoy field control that includes but is not limited to being able to place obstacles/clouds that block line of sight. The Blindwater Congregation seems to stick out with Barnabas if my memory doesn't fail me.

That is a type of play and warlocks that appeal to me even if they aren't the strongest/ those are only minor abilities or if they don't have as much affect on the field as one would want. Flavor wise I enjoy those Warcasters and Warlocks.

As for a current update I've printed copies of the quickstart rules as well as the cards attached to each which are the battle box units if I am not mistaken. We have decided to do Legion, Menoth and Skorne to begin. I will be doing mainly three player games but I will suggest again that we try 1v1. Again, it isn't my willingness to but the idea that we'd prefer to learn this way since there isn't anyone in my area to help us.

I have also compiled some 25 point lists using War Room should we make it to that point. I'll be doing a supply and demand scenario with a supply cache for each of us. I'll also be throwing together some terrain before we sit down to try our first game.

As for terrain manipulation, any suggestions for me? Even if it is something gimmicky or underpowered.

Also, anything to look for when we start such as common mistakes or rules that confuse new players often?

Thanks again everyone,

Nautilak

Circle I believe is the Faction that pulls the most "template effects" as you are describing I think. All of their warlocks save the Kayas have some sort of tempalte effect and a lot of infantry do as well. The Faction navigates and utilizes terrain a lot also for various things.

Outside of Circle there's the High Reclaimer in the Protectorate, Blood Barnibus of Minions and I think that's actually about it. Not many warlocks or warcaster smake a schitck of messing with the terrain or LOS on a level you are describing save the Circle ones and those ones i think (might be wrong). If you want to do a bit of battlefield manipulaiton on a large scale, it's actually been a big schtick of Circle Orboros as a Faction.

Best of luck trying to gt more one-on-one. I will say for your group size, try to not get too overboard on raising point levels yet. Make sure you get a hang of your basics and keep things simple.

And stuff.

 Laughing Man wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Walls are another good terrain piece. They should be roughly 1" thick and 5-8" long. Most hobby stores will carry walls of some kind. Or you can build your own, or even make a felt outline.

As a slight correction, Ye Olde Walle from the core book is .75" wide, although I'd probably go to a full 6" in length.

That's the Wall Template which has some specific rule use, like spells that place the "Wall Template"(fire wall, Wind Wall, etc...) but normal linear obstacles for terrain can be different dimensions(IIRC they suggest between 1/2" and 1" thick in the terrain section)

Nautilak wrote:
@ Mordekiem - Hey there. Thanks for the suggestion. Cryx and Haley are both something i'd considered but I think I want to try another step or two before I move into my attrition lists I assume i'll love with Cryx.

My ideal of Control and Manipulation applies to a few things. Board Control, Terrain Control, etc. All of it really matters. Terrain is one of my favorite things i'd love to do but most of it appears to be in circle. Any suggestions for some terrain shenanigans to learn with?

Thanks,

Nautilak

Well, ret, legion and cryx have some fun ways of ignoring terrain while forcing your opponent to deal with it. I am not very familiar with them, but I think gators can make swamps and stuff.

Cygnar can lay down a lot of covering fire templates and things like that that make certain areas no go areas. B-13 + Stormwall is a lot of fun creating a "wall" about a foot long of "no go" zone that only the toughest infantry and jacks can walk thru. Completely shuts down some infantry centric forces. The new Silver Stormgaurd dudes look really interesting in holding objectives.

Cryx has some board control, but more often either ignore things others can't or debuff, etc things so they just can't handle it.

Barnabas does make lots of swamps. He has a spell that he can spam and make swamps, and IIRC his tier list gives him swamps to place out.

Combine his feat with his swamp spell and you can turn enemy warjacks off.(put swamp underneath Jack, Feat, jacks get knocked down and turned off because of shallow water)

 Grey Templar wrote:
Barnabas does make lots of swamps. He has a spell that he can spam and make swamps, and IIRC his tier list gives him swamps to place out.

His Theme actually gives out less swamps than just playing Blindwater itself, unless you're playing a 50+ game and intentionally spamming Posses at the exclusion of everything else except the Trog unit required to get Tier 2. Blindwater gives 2, Barnie's gives one for every two Posse you bring. You'd need 4 to match and 6+ to beat.