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The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
The list shows it was made out of basic purchases. The army itself lack mobility, defensive utility and anti-camouflage. Auxilia, Regulars with mine layer and sensor, Nisse are fine way to cover defence and anti-camouflage roles. I've put a list I think it'd do bit better because it includes more tools, such as mines and MSV. The Crusader Brethren is there to give you more mobility and force the enemy to cover flanks. I believe you can proxy my list with the models you have, with exception of Brethren.
You can use the list you have and see what doesn't work and go from there. Infinity system doesn't like building blocks of units that come together at the end. Each army needs to be evaluated regarding scenario, point format and fulfilling your strategy (toolbox). At 300 points most of the list will be manageable, below some hectic scenarios can begin to happen, however I wouldn't worry too much about this at the start.
Cheers and happy gaming
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/06 06:49:51
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
Knight wrote: Greetings and a happy birthday to you.
The list shows it was made out of basic purchases. The army itself lack mobility, defensive utility and anti-camouflage. Auxilia, Regulars with mine layer and sensor, Nisse are fine way to cover defence and anti-camouflage roles. I've put a list I think it'd do bit better because it includes more tools, such as mines and MSV. The Crusader Brethren is there to give you more mobility and force the enemy to cover flanks. I believe you can proxy my list with the models you have, with exception of Brethren.
You can use the list you have and see what doesn't work and go from there. Infinity system doesn't like building blocks of units that come together at the end. Each army needs to be evaluated regarding scenario, point format and fulfilling your strategy (toolbox). At 300 points most of the list will be manageable, below some hectic scenarios can begin to happen, however I wouldn't worry too much about this at the start.
Cheers and happy gaming
That is the same website I used, although I am still trying to figure out how to get that format onto the forum. :/
And thanks. I might give this list a try as well after I play with mine a bit. Although not really certain on making the Fusilier the Lieutenant. That being said, I might make a few other tweaks to it that I can for the time being with what I have and can proxy while staying close to what I have in my list.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
Alright so I change the list around a bit. Most of it is the same, but I am going to proxy either the ORC trooper or a Teutonic Knight to use as the Crusader Brethren. Also, I noticed the lack of PanO players..... :(
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
I'm a PanO player, even if I don't post all that often anymore. But I think I have nearly every PanO model.....
Tanakosyke22 wrote: Although not really certain on making the Fusilier the Lieutenant.
I actually have to agree with Knight here. In my experience, having a hard hitting unit such as the Knight of the Holy Sepulchre as a LT is not a good idea. I'm not saying it can't work, but with their Holoprojection and Spitfire you'll want to send that bad boy into combat as soon as possible. Most of the time I keep my Fusiliers in the back as Cheerleaders. This works great for a LT, as I have discovered.
Unless you're planning on hacking, or taking remotes, then I wouldn't recommend the Kamau Hacker. You can use the unit for anti-hacking, but then you'd have to be in range of the unit being hacked. Full disclosure time: I've not played with hacking at all, so I could be entirely wrong. Although, I do believe the hacker can help with the Brethren when they Jump into the game.
The Trauma-Doc is great, especially since you have the Palbots, but remember the Palbots DO NOT generate any orders. Unfortunately, I did not realize this at first until corrected by the friendly folks of Dakka. Although, they are great at taking out enemy units with their Electric pulse. =3
Personally, I prefer the Nisse over any of the other sniper options short of the Croc-Man due to their X Visor, TO Camo, and Infiltration. The Nisse has a better BS, MSV2, and ARM 3 compared to the Acontecimento. But then again, I do have a bias toward anything remotely Norse. Granted, both of those units are a bit more expensive in terms of points....
Despite my comments above, best of luck in your PanO adventures. Let us know how they turn out.
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
Tanakosyke22 wrote: Although not really certain on making the Fusilier the Lieutenant.
I actually have to agree with Knight here. In my experience, having a hard hitting unit such as the Knight of the Holy Sepulchre as a LT is not a good idea. I'm not saying it can't work, but with their Holoprojection and Spitfire you'll want to send that bad boy into combat as soon as possible. Most of the time I keep my Fusiliers in the back as Cheerleaders. This works great for a LT, as I have discovered.
Unless you're planning on hacking, or taking remotes, then I wouldn't recommend the Kamau Hacker. You can use the unit for anti-hacking, but then you'd have to be in range of the unit being hacked. Full disclosure time: I've not played with hacking at all, so I could be entirely wrong. Although, I do believe the hacker can help with the Brethren when they Jump into the game.
The Trauma-Doc is great, especially since you have the Palbots, but remember the Palbots DO NOT generate any orders. Unfortunately, I did not realize this at first until corrected by the friendly folks of Dakka. Although, they are great at taking out enemy units with their Electric pulse. =3
Personally, I prefer the Nisse over any of the other sniper options short of the Croc-Man due to their X Visor, TO Camo, and Infiltration. The Nisse has a better BS, MSV2, and ARM 3 compared to the Acontecimento. But then again, I do have a bias toward anything remotely Norse. Granted, both of those units are a bit more expensive in terms of points....
Despite my comments above, best of luck in your PanO adventures. Let us know how they turn out.
I though I would need a hacker for the palbots (You can still see how kind of new I am at this game. Although I could try with something that would be great for defensive and anit-hacking, as well as hacking in general; (I mostly face an Aleph army at the store I go to (He tends to have a good amount of Daikini Tacbot, but a good amount of other things). I might try with the Fusilier as Lieutenant though.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
As far as I am aware (read: I'm probably wrong, as is normal), Palbots are an exception to needing the hacker as they work with the Engineer/Doctor.
If I am wrong, and I probably am, then you'll need to keep the hacker.
Now I've not faced anyone playing Aleph (yet), but you'll definitely want to take some units that have MSV in order to counter the ODD that I think many of the Aleph units have. I'd recommended Nisses (MSV2), or Aquila Guard (MSV3), or Bagh Mari as they have MSV1 which is useful against Mimetism. You can also take an Order Sergeant with MSV2 and a Spitfire, but that unit is rather expensive if you're not running a Military Order Sectorial. One thing that's always fun against ODD and Mimetism is flamethrowers. So you could consider taking some Axuilia or other units that have the flamethrower weapon.
Either way, my experience against Aleph is non-existent. All I can offer are insights as to what I've learned fighting Ariadna and Haqq.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/12 04:30:27
As far as I am aware (read: I'm probably wrong, as is normal), Palbots are an exception to needing the hacker as they work with the Engineer/Doctor.
If I am wrong, and I probably am, then you'll need to keep the hacker.
Now I've not faced anyone playing Aleph (yet), but you'll definitely want to take some units that have MSV in order to counter the ODD that I think many of the Aleph units have. I'd recommended Nisses (MSV2), or Aquila Guard (MSV3), or Bagh Mari as they have MSV1 which is useful against Mimetism. You can also take an Order Sergeant with MSV2 and a Spitfire, but that unit is rather expensive if you're not running a Military Order Sectorial. One thing that's always fun against ODD and Mimetism is flamethrowers. So you could consider taking some Axuilia or other units that have the flamethrower weapon.
Either way, my experience against Aleph is non-existent. All I can offer are insights as to what I've learned fighting Ariadna and Haqq.
You're correct, Palbots don't need a Hacker. They operate on a same level as Auxilia. They're synchronised but ignore Zone of Control limitations. They're great for their points.
The only thing to add to upper diversity of toolbox are mines and shotguns. Shotguns are more difficult to pull off, requiring ricochet of a model that doesn't have ODD into someone that has it.
For us hacking is difficult and not very rewarding. First we need to get a hacker or repeater (your own REM or deployable repeater) inside of 8", after that we need to perform a successful hacking attempt. This can be quite a hit or miss, even without the presence of an enemy hacker. REM, HI and TAG have at least certain level of BTS protection. In case of Dakini, your Kamau Hacker will have to make a difficulty roll of 10. That is 0.5 chance to succeed and for a cost of an order. It might be tempting but I recommend using hacking only against heavier things such as HI and perhaps a TAG and only if you lack heavier and more sophisticated gadgets such as TO, HMG or missile launcher. I will say that it's fun to watch hackable units trigger ARO, if you manage to get a repeater into a nice position.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/12 08:04:13
I'd (somewhat) disagree with that. Baggage REMs can be useful in tournament (because objectives) and campaign lists; the 5|0.5 extra for an EVO repeater is a no-brainer if you have a Kamau (or Deva, if playing Neoterra) hacker (useful even if only defensively, and another model that can get objectives...) already; it greatly reduces the effectiveness of GML fethery, and just running your one (or one of your two) rather quick EVO rep REMs close enough to a TAG or annoying HI can still make quite a difference. It's by no means an auto-include but it gives off a certain threat; area denial (to TAGs particularly) alone can make it worth it for starters. ...And trust me, I sure do love my TO-camoed-fireworks-swissguard too. It's just not the only TAGthreatening tool in the box
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/12 17:04:36
Mules are excellent. A pair of them gives you additional 50 points. It can easily make a difference between retreat and stying in for a fight. However the list presented does not include them, it is why I said. Hacking needs elements to work with, REM, EVO and hackers. Certainly you can hack someone with single hacker in ARO but that is hardly "hacking" list. Usually I'll take a hacker but that is for other reasons, a single hacker doesn't have that much value to me. GML is a possibility but it'll be quite rare for me to face it.
With TAGBTS - 6/9 it'll be laugh worthy to get hacked in ARO, while you'll need more mobile elements and support to achieve decent results in active turn. It is viable to try working with hacking but you'll just require greater dedication. Not forgetting it's sometimes easier just to eliminate the opposition is also worth pointing out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/12 20:15:02
Knight wrote: Mules are excellent. A pair of them gives you additional 50 points. It can easily make a difference between retreat and stying in for a fight. However the list presented does not include them, it is why I said. Hacking needs elements to work with, REM, EVO and hackers. Certainly you can hack someone with single hacker in ARO but that is hardly "hacking" list. Usually I'll take a hacker but that is for other reasons, a single hacker doesn't have that much value to me. GML is a possibility but it'll be quite rare for me to face it.
With TAGBTS - 6/9 it'll be laugh worthy to get hacked in ARO, while you'll need more mobile elements and support to achieve decent results in active turn. It is viable to try working with hacking but you'll just require greater dedication. Not forgetting it's sometimes easier just to eliminate the opposition is also worth pointing out.
Thats +40pts for 2 baggage model.
Peter: As we all know, Christmas is that mystical time of year when the ghost of Jesus rises from the grave to feast on the flesh of the living! So we all sing Christmas Carols to lull him back to sleep.
Bob: Outrageous, How dare he say such blasphemy. I've got to do something.
Man #1: Bob, there's nothing you can do.
Bob: Well, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor.
Really? those Deva are WiP 15, Kamau is 13 as well AFAIK - okay, the BTS-9 TAGs aren't all that scared, but at BTS -6, in my experience they generally go the other way around.
...That, or they spend precious, precious orders taking out that mule. Which is entirely worth it. Then again, I've seen a couple of horrible, horrible GML lists around here so maybe I indeed have more incentive to take the buggers
You're right though - a hacking list doesn't consist of one hacker, period. However, that one kamau is 18|0.5 over a fusilier or suchlike, and for those points he certainly does have his uses; even just a Kamau behind a wall can make HI think about walking close by.
Bit more of a situational thing though, indeed.
The biggest problem with hackers for this guy, though, is that using them well will (at least with PanO) often require several bots; either mule or fugazi and preferably just having both available - that's >€60 in models to buy for someone who buys a list with birthday money - that could be a big expense.
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
Bolognesus wrote: Really? those Deva are WiP 15, Kamau is 13 as well AFAIK - okay, the BTS-9 TAGs aren't all that scared, but at BTS -6, in my experience they generally go the other way around.
...That, or they spend precious, precious orders taking out that mule. Which is entirely worth it. Then again, I've seen a couple of horrible, horrible GML lists around here so maybe I indeed have more incentive to take the buggers
You're right though - a hacking list doesn't consist of one hacker, period. However, that one kamau is 18|0.5 over a fusilier or suchlike, and for those points he certainly does have his uses; even just a Kamau behind a wall can make HI think about walking close by.
Bit more of a situational thing though, indeed.
The biggest problem with hackers for this guy, though, is that using them well will (at least with PanO) often require several bots; either mule or fugazi and preferably just having both available - that's >€60 in models to buy for someone who buys a list with birthday money - that could be a big expense.
Well, as I did state before, I was going to try and use the hacker mostly defensively and to use on his Dakini Tacbots as an annoyance mostly.If that does not work out, I'll just proxy him as something else for as I thought I had to use the hacker to get the Palbots.Welp.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
Bolognesus wrote: Hackers as area denial really, really needs a drone or two dropped in. Is getting one or two boxed sets to play around with an option, budget-wise?
At the moment, no, not at all. I hope to get a part-time job to at least make some money on the side for school and the hobby, but anything I have to wait until Christmas and next summer.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
Blegh, I figured as much. Well, at least you splurged on the 6pts-worth-of-palbots blister (or support pack, not sure ) which is great; that's the one add-on I really advise anyone even on a tight budget to make from the get-go.
Drones are great (I'm up to, let's see, 11 of the blighters now? ...yup, I have a problem) but they do add up, indeed.
However, PanO, IMO, really benefits from the occasional drone here and there. A Sierra for the murdermines, a mulebot or two, those can be real fun to play.
Clicking though to your profile you seem to have some experience with (and stuff for, I'm guessing) other wargames already; if your opponents aren't too adverse to you proxying a drone or two you might try that for a while. Anything low and on a 40mm base works, really.
One thing though (and this is a mistake I made when starting): Infinity is a lot more fun if you just play something different every time. just one or two models make all the difference. Now I went crazy and just got a blister every week or two at least but generally speaking that's not necessary: with only a few models on the table infinity lends itself well to proxying and most players don't really mind at all (TBH there's so many models out there that nine times out of ten when playing an army other than PanO, CA or perhaps by now Haqq, I have to ask what everything is anyway ).
So just write something fun 5min before playing that you more or less have models to sort of fill That way you'll know which way to go when actually buying stuff much better, too: one of the great things about infinity is that while a good list really does matter (and yes, it can be the list and not you if it doesn't work...), pretty much everything has a place in *some* list for general purpose use; it's much more of a matter of taste whether actually using a list works for you or not.
So really, there's a lot of reasons why "does this list work" has limited use, as a question, when compared to, say, WHFB or WM/H (which I see you both play).
A further reason for this is, that now any of my regular opponents are well aware that I might pull any nasty surprise the army lets me out of my case, they're constantly preparing for combat jumpers left and TO TAGs and missile launchers right, even when there's none of that in my list that day (randomly scribbling in a notebook during deployment helps, too, for example).
It's the uncertainty and fluidity stuff like this gives which generally turns out to be the biggest draw for infinity, so go crazy on it Just make sure to inform your opponents of proxies and try to keep model size/profile somewhat correct for the proxied unit
At the very least proxying like crazy will tell you what to buy with what cash you do have available so you don't spend it on stuff you turn out to never use if given the slightest bit of choice.
If you haven't bought this list yet, come to think of it, I'd further advise you to look at one of the sectorial starters for PanO; noone is going to complain about Acon regulars standing in for fusiliers so that's not an issue (and the models are way better!) and IMO both the antique sculpts and the profiles of the models in the PanO starter aren't as much 'fun' to have, when compared to the acon starter particularly. MO is somewhat more particular in what you can do with it but Acon is decently all-round, and I think would be much more fun to play around with.
...This is, however, one of those 'personal taste' things I just mentioned to some extent
REM of all sorts are our best buddies, treat them well and they will treat you the same. I would like to point out that the repeaters can be distributed through other means, such as Fusilier and Crock Man. Mobile hackers, Crock Man, Akalis and to certain extent Hexa can also be used. Perhaps not as effective as Fugazi but worth to try them at least.
Fusilliers? Under which profile? Croc men, okay if you're using the combi rifle anyway; those 4 pts extra, combined with FO making him a specialist for objectives are worth it even without a GML (hey, we want another REM again! ). However the only CR equipped croc worth it's points IMO is the minelayer, the rest I wouldn't even consider. One of those matters of taste again, I suppose. Using hackers such as akal and croc is, IMO, a ginormous waste of points for something a 13 pt MUL generally does, and does better most of the time. Fugazi aren't our only repeater bots, never forget that! those 20pts if, and I mean if, a MUL gets sniped extra still don't have it losing you as much as most hackers would and that EVO rep is so damn good...
Yes, you can use non-remote models as repeater delivery systems but it's a humongous waste of points for PanO, IMO. They're either inferior to REMs or too expensive for that purpose, generally, I'd say.
Still you have a point, if money's that much of an issue it's a more or less valid stop-gap measure.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/13 21:22:23
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
Worse case, I can try to attempt and buy a few blank 40 mm bases if money does permit so I can at least proxy. Also, I can use some 40k models to proxy before I sell those off as well, seeing what I might and might not want since the the other person does (I do not mind if someone uses proxies at all, I just feel bad if I use them but I have a strict budget for now).
As to your statement on what I play, I used to play the Warhammers, but I dropped that in favor for WMH and Infinity. That being said, both do not seem to be expensive (although WMH is kind of debatable, since it cost a good $50 for most full units without UA, but you can still get a good use out of them for any point level).
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
WM/H can get as expensive as you want to make it, but it seems there's plenty of cheap competitive builds - though it might take a bit of searching
"Just the bases" is sub-optimal; unit size is really quite important, cover-wise. I could take some measurements for you so you can mock something up if you like? I'd just do it all out of stiff card (cereal box works, in a pinch) rather than buying loose bases TBH.
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
Bolognesus wrote: WM/H can get as expensive as you want to make it, but it seems there's plenty of cheap competitive builds - though it might take a bit of searching
"Just the bases" is sub-optimal; unit size is really quite important, cover-wise. I could take some measurements for you so you can mock something up if you like? I'd just do it all out of stiff card (cereal box works, in a pinch) rather than buying loose bases TBH.
Fair enough, I might try that out. Might also make pictures of them as Tachikomas for the time being if that does happen to show a better proxy. Tachikomas are the sauce.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
No, I have no miniatures of them. I have pictures of those yes, and I mean to print them out as well and then glue them on the stiff card. Just so the stiff card is not so bland to look at.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
Infinity is something I started playing for the rules; I positively loathe anything manga/anime related. those buggers look somewhat REMrelated in profile - they'd do better for the MULs than for the DRONs but still, not enough to make it an issue
Some small city in nowhere, Illinois,United States
Bolognesus wrote: Infinity is something I started playing for the rules; I positively loathe anything manga/anime related. those buggers look somewhat REMrelated in profile - they'd do better for the MULs than for the DRONs but still, not enough to make it an issue
Joke is on you a little bit, Infinity is kind of based on Cyberpunk anime/manga back in the day. Not to say it in a bad way, sorry if I come off as dickish on that....
Although, you might be a bit right on that. Also, not really going to buy anything past this since I already have a large order of things I need to finish up painting up for both WMH and Infinity (Infinity is going to be the easy since it is not as many models), although I might try out those list as well with a bit of proxying.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Although I can understand the anime thing. Some of it does get silly and annoying depending on what it is.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/14 02:30:23
The obligatory non-40K/non-Warmahordes player in the forum.
Hobby Goals and Resolution of 2017: Paint at least 95% of my collection (even if getting new items). Buy small items only at 70% complete.
Panoceania | 10 models
Knight of the Holy Sepulchre Spitfire (58|2)
Croc Man Minelayer (34|0.5)
Brethren combi (26|0)
Kamau Combi (16|0)
Acontecimento MineLayer (14|0.5)
Fusilier Lt (10|0)
Nisse Sniper (41|1.5)
Trauma-Doc Doctor (14|0)
Palbot (3|0)
: 
). However the only