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Hello all, for an upcoming tournament I plan on playing my deathwing + ravenwing army. I would like your opinion on the list.

Alpha strike list:

Belial /w sos+sb
Librarian /w force sword, TDA, combi-flamer, displacer field (my warlord, probably taking prescience from divination)

5 DWT /w HF, 2xth/ss, 1xLCs (this is the unit for both belial and Libby to precision DS for flamer goodness)

5 DWT /w PC

5 Black knights /w 1x Grenade Launcher


I am still tuning on this list so all your opinions and input is more than welcome!

regards,
Mortaal

The black Knights are a fantastic unit in conjunction with the the DWT's, but I would be worried about holding objectives in your deployment zone. You are kind of relying on tabling your opponent atm. Dropping the BK's and picking up one or two tac squads with ML's might be a more feasible option. Gives you much more diverse target saturation. Solid list for getting right in your opponents face though!

I concur with the fishman, in addition, combine the two deathwing squads, lose the plasma cannon and pick up a CML. Put Belial and the librarian in that squad for accurate deepstriking and prescience every turn. Yes, you will have a lot of incoming fire to that squad, but it can take it. Deploy that squad on an opponents back objective!

I agree with above. Dw and Rw are so hard to both fit in anything under 1500. I generally dont do both until i get above 2k simply because I cannot fit in all the nice little toys they offer.

Conversely, you can go with azrael and take a standard ravenwing squad and have multiple scoring units.
I wouldn't completely reccomend this, but it is an option!

gealgain wrote:
Conversely, you can go with azrael and take a standard ravenwing squad and have multiple scoring units.
I wouldn't completely reccomend this, but it is an option!

That is a very viable stratgey except, he is too many points for what he does in CC for a 1k list. At least belial has tda and a sword with fleshbane.

 namiel wrote:

gealgain wrote:
Conversely, you can go with azrael and take a standard ravenwing squad and have multiple scoring units.
I wouldn't completely reccomend this, but it is an option!

That is a very viable stratgey except, he is too many points for what he does in CC for a 1k list. At least belial has tda and a sword with fleshbane.

My point exactly, at 1k points he's taking over 20% of your points costs, and he isn't very good all by himself

Keep in mind here chaps that he can switch out the SOS for a TH/SS for free. Makes him a lot more punchy when you add him to a unit of DWT's. Samael is a thought, but I worry about the points cost.... If you are going to lose the ability to precision deepstrike, I would add a second librarian to stay with some of the tac squads mentioned above. Divination on ML's is generally good times. Best part, dont even need to pay for TDA on the second libby. Especially since your DWT's are no longer troops without Belial.

You need to keep Belial to make those DW troops. I wonder if taking a command squad wouldn't be a better idea than the bikes, so you can give everyone FNP from a banner? Maybe make a bike librarian instead and get a RW command squad? Or keep the terminator librarian and get a cheap command squad with the FNP banner + Belial etc to deep strike precisely where you want them? Just some thoughts.

There are certain armies that are just going to be able to smoke you due to cheap plasma and melta spam capabilities etc. I know for a fact that IG can basically just tar-pit you and/or hide their palsmas in the center of a squad. You'll kill 15 guys and then get hit with 6 plasma shots and lose a few terminators. Equal exchange etc. And that's not counting FRFSRF... Feel No pain helps against this but it is almost 10% of your army just in a flag...

Wow, what an amount of replies! Great stuff you guys make note of. I have tested the librarian on bike with the command squad (and ravenwing banner), and he has done very well in that setup as well. With prescience the grenade hits are guaranteed, as well as brutal close combat rending

Yet the with the precision deep strike and twin linked weaponry I wanted to have a look at how well he would do within the terminator unit. Even taking a look at how his warlord traits could be put to more use, e.g. FNP, furious charge and the 2d6 on the run table, I see him benefit the scoring squad more.

I know there will be decent matchups and armies that will eat my ass terribly, but that is the game as it is.

One more question I have for you guys to discuss: should I drop the displacer field on the librarian to a conversion field and give the Huntmaster in the black knight squad a power sword? having one AP3 weapon on the bikes might not hurt?

keep the comments coming!
regards,
Mortaal

I'd keep the huntmaster as he is, as you should deal with anything 2+ 3+ with the plasma talons. Whatever is left should die from massed hammer of wrath and str 5 rending etc.

Displacer field is the 4++ that makes you scatter when you save right? That one is Ok in my opinion. Conversion can blind your own guys iirc which isn't alway optimal, but it can also blind enemies. They are both good for different reasons. Maybe conversion would be better simply because you can blind enemies and then hit them with power fists? I personally have never seen them used yet so I'm not really sure.

- VardenV2

Yeah, having your libby randomly teleport away can be awkward at times. :p I agree about the Huntmaster, rending and plasma should be enough to deal with anything without splurging on the power sword. I like the conversion field, mostly due to the fact that if you blind both units, then its one more turn you wont be shot at. If you only blind his unit, then free rending hits! And at the end of the day, a 3+ is still a 3+, so you should be able to grit your teeth against most things that are whacking you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Assuming he is with bikes :p The termies its even better with, due to them being even tougher to squish.

Alright, the huntmaster will stay as is for now than, perhaps I can use the last ~10 points to give my librarian digital weapons or something like that?

Furthermore, do you guys think I should give belial his TH///SS outfit? And the Libby a Force Axe?

regards,
Mortaal

Generally I send Belial IC hunting, to make use of his warlord trait, so I would give him the TH/SS. AP 2 is waay to nice to pass up. The libby with a force axe is kind of up to how many points you have lying around, the main thing is putting a wound that sticks on him. If you can do that, ZAP. If you cant get the wound though, then you have a problem. The staff is generally ok for that, but dat AP 2....

 TheFishman wrote:
Generally I send Belial IC hunting, to make use of his warlord trait, so I would give him the TH/SS. AP 2 is waay to nice to pass up. The libby with a force axe is kind of up to how many points you have lying around, the main thing is putting a wound that sticks on him. If you can do that, ZAP. If you cant get the wound though, then you have a problem. The staff is generally ok for that, but dat AP 2....

Well, in my force, the Librarian is the warlord :p and as he can choose what type of force weapon he takes (sword, axe, staff) I have a "free of charge" choice.

I guess I will play a few more games with it to see how they do as they are.

How are people looking at the plasma cannon versus a CML? As I would have spare points to swap the PC to a CML.

regards,
Mortaal

if you can take the CML

 raiden wrote:
if you can take the CML

I'd recommend the CML as well. Even though I LOVE plasma cannons, the pros and cons are not really comparable to the CML which has longer range, more shots (2) higher str (8), longer range (48") and it doesn't take up a weapon slot like the plasma cannon. It also doesn't get hot, not that that's a huge issue when you have a 2+ save. You can give it to a TH/SS terminator and shoot a tank in the butt and then assault the contents. Way too valuable imo. Plus, with those knights you should have enough ap2 shooting to deal with other terminators etc from range.

In this case I don't think it really matters what loadout you give Belial. I know a lot of people swear by the TH/SS because ti keeps him alive, which is absolutely true. However, WS6 and high inititaive, attacks, and precision shots on a 5 or 6 is very useful with the sword combo, especially if going against weaker units like IG (pick out the plasma guns!) or 1-wound sergeants with power fists etc. It usually doesn't help too much but sometimes it can be worth it. Plus, fleshbane means that he is actually still decent at killing bigger creatures, but he may not survive to get the chance to strike :/ A personal favorite target is things like Plague Marines or enemy bikes. Ignore their toughness completely and strike first.

- VardenV2

Alright guys, with your advice I come to the following list:


Belial /w th/ss

Librarian /w force sword, TDA, combi-flamer, conversion field

5 DWT /w 1xHF, 1xth/ss, 1xLCs

5 DWT /w 1xth/ss with CML

5 Black knights /w 1x Grenade Launcher


I feel this would be near maximum of what I would be able to get out of the army, effectiveness wise. any more thoughts are more than welcome though!

regards,
Mortaal

Looks decent to me. The only way you could get more out of it I think is if you scratched the librarian and used those ~150 pts for more bikers, or more terminators. But other than that, a 1000 point DW army is gonna be low in numbers.

Also, how are you planning on deploying your forces? You are going to have to put at least one HQ or one DW squad on the table to start the game.

- VardenV2

Last minute adjustment after some discussion at the club this evening. I am putting a second th/ss in the flamer squad, as they or the bikes are probably first priority targets over the lone DWT squad.

Belial /w th/ss

Librarian /w force sword, TDA, combi-flamer, conversion field

5 DWT /w 1xHF, 2xth/ss, 1xLCs

5 DWT /w CML

5 Black knights /w 1x Grenade Launcher

My deployment really depends on what and how my opponent fields his force. My main used tactic is to DWA turn 1 with both terminator squads for twin linked goodness. If I get the first turn I scout the bikes towards a flank with a juicy target (transport or AP2 threat for the terminators), Deathwing backfield squad drop down near bikes, belials unit behind a flamable unit, bikes move within rapid fire range, and so the pewpew commences to at least get first blood and hopefully wipe a unit off the board to balance myself out against being heavily outnumbered.

If my opponent takes the first turn the bikes do not scout, and sometimes I outflank with them only dropping my deathwing turn 1. Usually this is only the case if clear targets for the bikes are hidden away or deployed out of reach of their plasma.

regards,
Mortaal

Sounds pretty good to me. Good luck, and do let us know how the list does!