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To start off this little army, I must begin by revealing my massive win-lose ratio. It's approximately 10-90. Safe to say, I'm not a master of this game. Basically I've been pounded into the dirt by most people I've played with. Anyways, 'tis no time for moping around. A new codex has come out and I see a new chance at trying something new.

I'd love to hear what you think, because I have a tendency seeing a cool idea in my head which sounds good but then afterwards proves utterly disastrous. I've never been a fan of tanks and I'd really like to avoid as much as possible. (Replacement for the Stalker?)
Anyways, the list.

HQ
Tigerius 165
(He's a powerhouse, mainly goes for Divination and cheating with Centurions or whatnot)

ELITES
10 Sternguard in Drop Pod(locator beacon) 315
3 combi-melta
Srgt with combimelta
(+2 poison kills a lot of things and melta kills tanks or so I've heard)

5 Terminators 235
Assault Cannon
3 Chainfists

TROOPS
5 Scouts with Camo cloaks 65
(Sitting on objectives and being douches)

5 Tactical s 110
plasma gun
srgt has Powerfist
(Your average marine)

5 Tacticals 95
Missile launcher with Flakk
(Your average marine)

5 Tacticals 95
Missile launcher with Flakk
(Your average marine)

FAST ATTACK
5 Assault 150
2 plasma pistols
Veteran srgt has Power fist
(These guys can both kill termies and pop a few wounds on MC or pop tanks)

5 Assault 150
2 plasma pistols
Veteran srgt has Power fist
(Dito)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Thunderfire cannon 100
(25pts for a Heavy 4 barrage? Yes please.)

Stalker 80
Stormbolter
(Anti-air, and unlike Hunter it's useful when there are no fliers. Stormbolter for 4++ vs Weapon destroyed)

3 Centurion Dev 290
3 Chest Missile Launcher
2 TL Lascannons
srgt has Omniscope, Gravcannon w grav-amps
(Slow and expensive, yes. Firepower? Yes)

This is the list I've been thinking about. I've got some of the minis already, but I want to try out the list a bit more before I empty my wallet
Cheers all

well i am in the same position you are with the same army, but i've been listening to the podcasts a lot and i have some improvements to suggest.

1 - tigurius is fine as long as you roll for buffing and you know how to use it. this is not going to be an instant fix as it will take time to learn which buffs to use where, but it is a good start.

2 - you can take lotd cheaper than sternguard. if you insist on taking sternguard i would just take 5 but still take the meltas. in addition, if you take lotd you can take real melta and multi melta instead of the combi.

3 - i would not take terminators. if you do take terminators take assault terminators with the thunderhammer and take more than 5 of them.

4 - i would not take scouts. that 4+ is going to hurt you and you will see at the end of the game when they are easily wiped from the objectives. if you insist on taking scouts then take all scouts and buy something with the savings.

5 - i like to take tacs. i do not like to take 5 tacs. i do not like to put a powerfist on the sgt as you should not be trying to get in combat anyway. i like to take 10 tacs and the rhino. plasma is a good choice. i would not take any flakk missiles.

6 - i would not take the assault troops unless you take raven guard. then, i would take 30 of them. i personally like to play assault marine. however, i also realize i am probably not going to win. at least if you take 30 of them you have a chance.

7 - thunderfire cannon - yes that is right you need to take this. i would take 3 of them.

8 - the stalker is ok. it will work. i would take 3 thunderfire cannons though.

9 - i would not take the centurion devastators. that is too many points. if i were to take them it would be with imperial fists as tank hunters.

now that is your army, let me give you some suggestions.

i see some of my early armies in your army. that is jack of all trades, master of none. you have something for everything, but not enough of it to actually accomplish anything. that just means you will die more slowly.

what i would recommend is spam. if you like a unit max it out. play it as a strategy. whether it be sternguard, lotd, terminators, assault marines, etc.

my suggestion would be to play 3 stormtalon with skyhammer and 3 thunderfire cannon for starters. that is 675 points and you can spend the rest on hq, elite, troop, and maybe a fortification. have you ever thought about a fortification? the skyshield landing pad is only 75 points and has a 4++.

so, you can do what you want but accept you are going to lose, or you can do what you want and give yourself a fighting chance by playing 30 of whatever you like in the army, or you can play to win by choosing the stormtalons, thunderfire, a fortification, and then filling in the blanks and trying to master your hq.

also, tigurius is nice but he is not the only hq. try vulkan with a bunch of meltas in the army. try lysander with a bunch of assault terminators and the rest bolters in your army. if you always count on the stormtalon and thunderfire you can do what you want with the rest of the army without fear for air support and some heavy support.


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also, if you really wanted to win you would play a chapter master with burning blade and not play a special hq, or bring this hq instead of tigurius.

i won't do it but i have to live with my choice. that is the most competitive hq you can field.

I agree with everything screaming flayers has said.

You should fill up your tac squads. Here's a suggestion of how to do it.

Swap the two assault squads for two stormtalons with skyhammer missiles. Put left over points into tacs.

Now you have AA so drop the stalker. Put the points into Tacs.

The way your sternguard are set up is suicide, which is fine, but what's the point of dropping in and targeting with melta, which will waste your bolter shots. It's fine, you can do this but those bolter dudes are a waste as they're gonna die after their first salve anyway. You'd get the same effect out of dropping a five man melta team to do the anti av job. Put the remaining points into tacs.

I know you don't like tanks but you were ready to take a stalker, so, swap the cents for 2 preds with autocannons and las sponsons. Put the left over points into Tacs.

Drop the scouts, and you guessed it, put the points into tacs.

Now you should have a better balanced and point optimized list with 3 full tac squads in rhinos. Very good.

Also, I agree on the chapter master, he's a beast. If you can find the points for him send him in with the stern first turn and he can run off to solo nasties. It's a gamble but it will pay off if you pick your prey.

Hope that helped .

ARRRGGG! your assault marines are very Unsynergistic. Drop them in favor of more centurions or TFC's. Or at least get vanguard vets, who are better in every. freaking. way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jamo wrote:
I agree with everything screaming flayers has said.

You should fill up your tac squads. Here's a suggestion of how to do it.

Swap the two assault squads for two stormtalons with skyhammer missiles. Put left over points into tacs.

Now you have AA so drop the stalker. Put the points into Tacs.

good ideas here

Agree with all the comments. In particular Terminators are just trash these days. So much AP2 out there that just wipes them.

Believe it or not, there are other ways to win than spam the obvious choices. Unless your list is for a tournament, all spamming will do is ensure your opponent gets annoyed. Thunderfire cannon spam is good, unless your opponent is playing MEQ/TEQ or lots of vehicles, then you just wasted three Heavy Support slots. You'll kill about 2-3 MEQ per cannon per turn, and won't do squat against any vehicles tougher than a rhino.

Centurions are actually a lot better than people give them credit for. 3 of them, if deployed and armed properly, can lay waste to just about anything. So far I've just used ML/Gravcannon combos, and they performed marvelously. Tomorrow I'm trying 2 gravcannons/bolter cents and 1 lascannon/ML sgt w/Omniscope, in order to be able to fire a couple of long ranged shots at choice vehicle targets while the gravcannons go after shorter ranged armoured infantry or MCs.

Assault marines aren't very good, and the other alternative, Vanguard, really aren't much better. If you insist on using them, go for full 10-man squads, as 5-man squads A) won't last long, and B) won't do enough damage in combat to actually do anything of note but die. 1-2 Stormtalons or bike squads is a better use for fast attack slots.

For your troops, keep them in 10-man squads. 5-man squads just aren't durable enough. Don't put flak missiles with them as you'll be snap firing probably half the game with the ML. As Screaming Flayers said, drop the power fists, you really don't want them in combat. Scouts are decent enough, but again, need numbers, and also sniper rifles. They make good objective campers, as the cloak plus going to ground makes them difficult to dislodge.

Also, look at devastator squads, they are cheap, flexible, and with Imperial Fist or Ultramarine chapter tactics, they can be very effective. If you are taking flakk missiles, put them here, as they won't be moving. Its worth considering taking a full 10-man squad and combat squading them, splitting the four heavy weapons, this allows you to split your fire and gives you 5 extra ablative wounds.

As for the Elite selections, it largely depends on what you are taking them for. Don't take Sternguard just for combi-weapons. If you have no use for their various types of special issue ammo, you'll find your points better spent elsewhere (such as LotD). Also, consider taking 10 and combat squading them in the drop pod. First 5 pop a transport, second 5 kill off the contents. Terminators have their uses, but it largely depends on what you want out of them. Tactical termies are best if deepstriking ten of them with 2 assault cannons, shoot the holy hell out of an enemy unit, and prepare to weather the storm of return fire. Assault termies with TH/SS are best in groups of 5 in a landraider. Neither will last beyond turn 4 as termies typically draw an unjustified amount of fire, and most people know the best way to kill them is small arms fire.

screaming flayers wrote:
[An army] that is jack of all trades, master of none. you have something for everything, but not enough of it to actually accomplish anything. that just means you will die more slowly.

I don't think I've realised it before. Goes to show, eh? Good point, I'll keep that in mind

A few points show up amongst all of you.
1. The Tacticals need more bros in them.
2. Assault Marines are....meh unless spammed.
3. Terminators die a lot.

You've had some good points all of ye.
I like sternguard so I'll keep them, but i'll try go for a "spam-2+ poison" rather than as a drop Pod unit.(still a 10'er so I can combat squad at leisure)

I do feel I need something faster, so a 10m vanguard along with a chaplain fills that role(Though at 420p it feels like a rather fragile cannon) Perhaps chaplain aint needed.
Though a command squad on bikes with 2 plasma and 2 grav and a 5 man bike squad for a bit less points seems better. Am I thinking correctly? Do they need a character to make them viable?

The tacticals doubles up as the scouts are left at home. Lastly, the stalker get's left at home so my anti-air is null, but I'll compensate with bolter shots.

The new list.

HQ
Tigerius 165

chaplain 120
Jump pack, Powerfist

ELITES
10 Sternguard 230

10 Vanguard 300
jump packs
2 powerfists
2 power mauls

TROOPS
10 Tacticals
Veteran srgt
plasma, Missile launcher

10 Tacticals
Veteran srgt
plasma, Missile launcher

10 Tacticals
Veteran srgt
plasma, Missile launcher

HEAVY SUPPORT
Thunderfire cannon 100

Thunderfire cannon 100

3 Centurion Dev 290
3 Chest Missile Launcher
2 TL Lascannons
srgt has Omniscope, Gravcannon w grav-amps

That looks a lot better mate. The only thing now is no AA. Do you see many fliers?

We have a few Demon lists but few mech-fliers so the stalker is still the thing I'd like. Is there anything non-heavy support that can do similary that I haven't thought about? Otherwise I'll just replace one of the TFCs.

Command BIkers vs Vanguard Veterans?

Stormtalon is fast attack. They're best in pairs.


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Also an aegis with quadgun is only 100 pts and uses no slot.

I would get an aegis, cuz peopel will realy, realy want to kill those tfc's. Also grav-vamps are not worth it unless the unit is fully grav'd.

I would drop the missiles on the tacs, without transports these guys will be on the move, so thats a lot of points for snap firing kraks.

I use Storm shields on my vanguard and melta bombs.together with a jump captain, pimped up with teeth of terra, Storm shield, teleport homer so he Can get back up from terminators, lotd whatever...

You Can also take command squad with Storm shields and meltaguns! Stick an apo in there and thats 3++ FNP.

If you want scouts take a LSS with heavy flamer in reserve. Good for Long range obj grap / Line breaker

why pay vetern stgs in tacs? such a waste of points!!

i found out that command squad is best with mass plasma guns and an apothecary!!