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Alright, I'm again looking for another faction, because none of the factions I've looked at appealed to me outside of a few models. Tohaa though... I like those. The only models I'm not a fan of are the Kamael in the starter, but even then the Kamael specialist box is fantastic. I can live with only having 3 models I don't love.

So I've been looking at a way to put 300pts together with some of my favorite models, which are the Gao Tarsos and Gao Rael, with the starter. To start, I don't want to deviate from this, as I'll build on top of it with future purchases. However, I'm kind of stuck - to get these models to hit 300pts, I've had to take some upgrades I normally wouldn't have like 2 paramedics, but I'm fine with that. However, it's stuck at 293pts/6SWC, and I just can't figure out how to use that last 7pts.

Kamael Lt
Kamael FO
Kamael Paramedic
Clipsos FO
Sakiel Swarm Grenades
Ectros HMG
Gao Tarsos HMG
Gao Tarsos Paramedic
Gao Rael Sniper
Gao Rael Spitfire

Paramedics I'm not a huge fan of, but I'll take them simply for the chance to bring a model back.The two FOs are in there mostly due to being Specialist Troops for objective games. Any ideas to use up that last 7 points without adding another model to the purchase list?

Also, feel free to get some general Tohaa discussion going too.

TBH if this is something you're happy with, being short by 7pts is nothing to worry about, IMO.

Yeah, I'm not overly concerned, but just if someone more familiar with Tohaa could point me in the right direction, that would be awesome.

Fair 'nuff
It's just one of those things with a 'new' faction though; there's not as much stuff available to find a place to tweak those last few points into place with.

 -Loki- wrote:
Yeah, I'm not overly concerned, but just if someone more familiar with Tohaa could point me in the right direction, that would be awesome.

I don't know how many people are familiar with Tohaa. No one I know/knew even played them. Although, I wouldn't worry about being short 7 points. You've got, what looks to me, a pretty banging list. But then again, I don't know a whole lot about the 'anti-fire" faction as a friend used to call them.

Yeah, I'm not worried about the list lacking teeth. It's got Swarm Grenades, two HMGs, a Spitfire and a Sniper. One of those HMGs is on an AD unit and the other on a pretty tough HI. It's got 2 Paramedics for lack of a doctor, and two Forward Observers for objectives.

Again, it's more of a streamlining thing - if I can use them up in an upgrade somewhere I will, but I'm not seeing much I can even proxy.

Personally, when writing my starter list extension for the Tohaa, I was using the Combi RIfles as Viral Combi Rifles, and that bumped the points count.

Not that anyone would mind, as the weapons look really similar and there are no Tohaa players in the whole country that I know of, so no one who could tell the difference.

Kamael Lt
Kamael FO
Kamael Paramedic
Clipsos FO
Sakiel Swarm Grenades
Ectros HMG
Gao Tarsos HMG
Gao Tarsos Paramedic
Gao Rael Sniper
Gao Rael Spitfire

Not sure about it. I personally prefer Kamaul, they are really awesome. I bought every release of Tohaa so far to get a good bunch of minis. I like the Sakiel very very much and would try to get some more if you could. The Gao Tarsos is a monster and I think two of them can get real nasty.... Kamael are normal Line troopers. Think they are okay. You´ll have 7 minis who can use the Tohaa Trident special rule. Normaly I try to get as many tridents as I can...

I've got nothing against Makaul, and the figs are fantastic. But again, keyword here is budget. The idea is to build on the starter to 300pts and use everything from it. And Makaul lost out to Gao Tarsos and Gao Rael.

My plan for tridents is to run 2. The Clipsos and Gao Rael Sniper will go solo, Gao Tarsos will land in opportune positions to do some killing, and I'll figure out good trident compositions from what's left.

So it begins! Tohaa trident starter bought. Looks like I'm really doing this one. Now to think of a colour scheme, as I'm not a fan of the studio colours. I've been thinking of very monochrome - all different greys, but colour added via turquoise symbiont armour and a nice vibrant blue for their skin.

imo you should try to find space for 2 kamael partners for the gao rael. The link bonus helps a lot.

I'm sure it does - but as I said, model composition is not changing. I'll figure out what trident setups work for me. I also managed to get the list to 299/6, by upgrading the Sakiel SWG to the viral rifle profile.

I built the whole starter yesterday and I'm impressed. Usually I have trouble with Infinity figs not going together well, but for the most part the whole starter went together easily. The Clipsos and Ectros were the hardest but only due to amounts of parts.

 -Loki- wrote:
I'm sure it does - but as I said, model composition is not changing. I'll figure out what trident setups work for me. I also managed to get the list to 299/6, by upgrading the Sakiel SWG to the viral rifle profile.

I built the whole starter yesterday and I'm impressed. Usually I have trouble with Infinity figs not going together well, but for the most part the whole starter went together easily. The Clipsos and Ectros were the hardest but only due to amounts of parts.

Yea, I had a problem with those two as well. I started using gel glue to assemble them, in fact.

The Clipsos is just terrible in terms of fit.

I didn't find the Clipsos terrible at all in terms of fit, aside from the pelvic join. That definitely could have used some guide studs or something. But the arms and cloak parts all fit perfectly fine. Same with the Ectros - the leg and kneeblade were pretty awkward to get nice and flush, but the arms and head were all fine.

Now I'm dreading building the Gao Tarsos. I've heard lots of bad about that build.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The Clipsos is just terrible in terms of fit.

That thing has been on my desk for weeks, I do not like that model.

Oh, I had the same problem. The starter has some awesome minis but the Clipsos isn´t one of them. I had to force me to get colors on her. Sometimes it´s hard to get the job done...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 -Loki- wrote:
I didn't find the Clipsos terrible at all in terms of fit, aside from the pelvic join. That definitely could have used some guide studs or something. But the arms and cloak parts all fit perfectly fine. Same with the Ectros - the leg and kneeblade were pretty awkward to get nice and flush, but the arms and head were all fine.

Now I'm dreading building the Gao Tarsos. I've heard lots of bad about that build.

Had no problems with glueing the the Gao Tarsos. It´s hard to paint with the wings but it´s such a WONDERFUL model....

So my idea of doing Tohaa on a budget went right out the window. I've bought about half of the range including the Support box and Kamael box in preparation for running a Gorgos. Also grabbed the Ectros HMG because why not?

I ran my list in the OP against my brother and I was almost embarrassed at how well it worked. Triads with Gao Raels took care of his Camo and two HMGs just ripped his stuff apart. Gao Tarsos are far too tough to be AD units. But I guess the moment he reads Symbiont armours rules I'll be facing oodles of flamers.

Also some respect for the Tohaa designer. I haven't had Infinity models go together this well. Even the Kamael LGL, one of the ranges few models holding a gun with 2 hands just snapped together with no effort. The hacker can die in a fire though.

It's good you bought the Kumotail, I predict you will be using her very often, she's very good for her points, especially for objective missions requiring specialists.

Also, think about the Delegate. I recently found out she's an awesome specialist model for just 5 points.

This list is pretty much what I was considering when I was going to start Tohaa (I went with Nomad's instead). At least now I know it works well if I decide to pick them up! Just how useful is Symbiont Armour? It looks pretty cool, basically like Valor Level 3.

Symbiont armours biggest boon comes from how tough it makes them. A Gao Tarsos is an AD unit that has ARM 3, and then when you consider they effectively have another wound (when they fail a save they revert to Inactive Armour which is the same but ARM 0 and -1 PH). That makes then harder than usual to deal with. Add a HMG and you've got a serious back line threat.

However if they are hit with a Flame weapon and fail their ARM save they pass immediately to Dead. This makes the Gorgos hilariously vulnerable to cheap flamers like a 12pt Naffatun.

Tales of Tohaa part 2 - faced my brothers JSA last night, and he brought an O-Yoroi. I got incredibly lucky with a combi rifle and HMG getting crits when it attacked, then it unloaded its heavy flamer. Extremely lucky saves meant two Kamael survived, but my Clipsos was roasted. And my Ectros. That hurt. Then it unloaded its HMG and bye went my Kamael.

He now knows how to deal with symbiont armour.

Something you may want to get soon:

Makauls, put 1 in each triad and they can drop zero-v smoke to screen everyone moving forward, then you can break the links to let them stampede out onto something valuable with any Sakiel while you rebuild the links into shooty support teams.

Also the most OP models in Tohaa are hands down the Chaksa Auxiliars, they are criminally underpriced to compensate for lacking fireteam: Tohaa. Specifically the HMG+360+Neuro-cinetics loadout. Taking 4 of them and positioning for a good cross-fire can put your opponent in a position where they don't even get an active turn. Every time I play Tohaa and don't take at least 2 of the HMG ones I end up regretting it. The other versions are also pretty sweet, the flamethrower+sensor+baggage loadout is the bane of camo spam Ariadna lists and is great for flanking your Triads and threatening to flame anything that tries to make a run on them. The GHRL loadout is also nice, but useless against nomads or anyone with actually good hackers, its good but it loses out to the other 2 by a huge margin.

Makauls and Chaksa are on the list. In fact, they're the only models left in the range that I don't have after the Gorgos and Sakiel Spitfire!

But Gorgos is next.

People say the Gorgos is a bit lacklustre, or at least overshadowed by triads. I think they're right, but there's a big use for them. You know, especially in higher points games, there is a big Problem with Tohaa. Triads lose most of their effectiveness once ther is one model down (1 to 2 wounds). When that happens, Gorgos keeps on stampeding with its 6(!) shots per order. Point is, when the tohaa lose their momentum, the army quickly starts crumbling, because all you do is trying to get your links back. I'd hold the Gorgos back, maybe dancing inside-outside 24" for the spitfire with a few leftover orders, then, once you lose one (or two if it really hits the fan) of your links, spend 3-4 orders rushing the Gorgos forward, all guns blazing walküren ride style, and reform your teams while the Gorgos keeps the pressure up with the aforementioned 6 shots and later with Flammenspeer AROs.

Only theory though, don't take it too seriously.

I know the reputation the Gorgos has. I don't care. What drew me to infinity was the awesome models, and the idea that if you know what you're doing, anything can work. The Gorgos looks incredible, one of my favorite TAG models, so it's next on the list.

The Gorgos is a testament to CB's design process that its taken them this long to make something that is not worth it. When there was no model, I was hoping it would be a bit bigger than the Ectros, but as it is, its really bad.

Everything in Tohaa falls into two different design groups, Linkable and non-linkable. Everything in the first is carefully balanced and assumed to be played in links, hence it is somewhat more expensive than equivalents, but is given unorthodox advantages so the direct powergap is incredibly small, eg no multi-weapons and Symbiont armour weakness.

Everything in the second is characterised by being stupidly point efficient. Functionally superior to faction equivalents while being cheaper, however their power is again curbed by the unorthodox spin of Symbiont amours having a common Kryptonite.

The Gorgos sucks because its a big heavy unit that can't run in the triads and dies easily to something the Tohaa are already nervous about dealing with and want a non-triad unit to handle. It lacks any overpowered undercosted advantage to compensate for such a glaring weakness. It can't even be a decent soak because its a lighter TAG and dies to an anti-infantry weapon, let alone concerntrated fire from heavy weapons.

If it were to be worth it in its current sculpt (I'll be honest, I would buy it if it was on sale because it looks sweet, but it woukd stay on the shelf) and stats, give it Fireteam: Tohaa, reduce cost, bump AVA, basically make it viable to run a pair in a triad with a Makaul or a Kumotail. Or chuck on camo and infiltrate so your Eclipsos can play a shell game with mines and a TAG.

Again - I don't care. While I appreciate the advice, I've already heard all that. I've also heard the opposite from other people. Like a lot of units, there's people on both sides. I'm buying it because the model is awesome and I want to try to make it work for me.

And at the end of the day, that's probably the best way to do this!