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Hey guys, I'm starting to realize I need more dakka in a competitive setting than my deathwing are able to pour out, so the idea is to create a massive gunline which is something I've never done.

HQ: librarian in termie armor
5x Deathwing command squad, 1x champion, 4x TH/SS 1x CML

Troops: 10x tactical squad, 1x plasma cannon
10x tactical squad, 1x plasma cannon
10x tactical squad, 1x plasma cannon

Fast : 3x Ravenwing attack squadron 1x attack bike

Heavy : Land raider crusader(no deathwing vehicle) 1x multi melta

The idea is to set up in a ruin, or somewhere else with decent cover saves, and sit back waiting for them to come within 24". With all the storm shields, the banner carrier hopefully becomes an undesirable target. Then it is dakka time, with 24 shots coming from the land raider, and 120 from the tactical squads, as well as 16 from the ravenwing squadron. I'd also possibly consider dropping the attack bike to take an aegis defense line

1 thing, baledrakes, I like the list, but hellturkys will eat it alive. I suggest dropping the LR and libby, taking azreal in a command squad w/ the banner of dakka. deep strike in the DW turn 2. hopefully with your bikes still alive so as to make use of the homer.

I can't see Azrael outdoing the usefulness of a land raider, and a prescience librarian, I mean I'm losing prescience, and my storm shield command squad in exchange getting better leadership rolls? How will this help me to better deal with helldrakes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niexist wrote:
I can't see Azrael outdoing the usefulness of a land raider, and a prescience librarian, I mean I'm losing prescience, and my storm shield command squad, alongside an assualt cannon, multi melta, and 24 shots of dakka. in exchange getting better leadership rolls? How will this help me to better deal with helldrakes?

thats the thing, it won't nothing bar 2+ saves or invulns will help you vs space chickens, the reason I suggest dropping the LR is, basically, its not worth it to take a LR as a weapon platform, your paying 260 points for, 2 TL LC, 1 TL HB and a MM?? sure its a tad hard to kill, but its easy to ignore it. you can just drop it, and grab azzy, boom, you just gave a unit a 4++ to help vs the hell drakes, I also recommend plasma cannons on DW. they always do well for me. so you have (if you drop the LR for azzy and the sub par CML for a PC) 40 extra points to work with (hello PFG for your libby) giving any models in 3" 4++

 raiden wrote:
thats the thing, it won't nothing bar 2+ saves or invulns will help you vs space chickens, the reason I suggest dropping the LR is, basically, its not worth it to take a LR as a weapon platform, your paying 260 points for, 2 TL LC, 1 TL HB and a MM?? sure its a tad hard to kill, but its easy to ignore it. you can just drop it, and grab azzy, boom, you just gave a unit a 4++ to help vs the hell drakes, I also recommend plasma cannons on DW. they always do well for me. so you have (if you drop the LR for azzy and the sub par CML for a PC) 40 extra points to work with (hello PFG for your libby) giving any models in 3" 4++

Again, it's not a standard land raider it is a crusader which will be able to manuever into blocking position of enemy big guns, as well as providing 24 additional shots with the hurricane bolters, 4 shots with the assualt cannon, and a MM for good measure. Not sure where you're getting sub par CML, this allows you to keep 3++ on the entire squad because CML is the ONLY heavy weapon that can be used in conjunction with a SS/TH. The point is not to be attacking with the banner carrier squad, but to make them such an undesirable target that the enemy is forced to look elsewhere. I might drop down to a standard librarian, and swap in a PFG since we're most likely already bunching up 3 units to get everyone with 6 of the dakka banner.

We're talking a 1250 list that is capable of pumping out 148 dakka shots a turn, 40 of which are twin-linked, and another 40 of which can be with prescience.

technically speaking, you CAN take a SS/TH with a PC, AC or HF wording wise, not sure how it would be accepted though. the book says the DW command squad may TAKE, not replace, any of these heavy weapons, blank blank. while TH/SS only requires you to give up your storm bolter and PF. . if you want that squad to stay alive, I suggest making one of them an apothecary, you lose a SS, but get a 5+ FnP which, vs small arms fire, may be extremely useful (unless you are me and get 2 out of 25 FnP rolls in one game >.&gt army wide LD10 is nothing to laugh at. I am recommending to drop the LR, only for azzy to be in a squad of tac marines, to give them a 4++ (also makes your bikes troops as well), which gives you enough for a PFG for the other 4++. this makes your units much more durable as, you cannot count on cover in these days. personally I would at this point, focus my big guns on your LR, and all my other stuff into your tac squads, as well, they have little "real" protection. I am not saying your list is not good, just what I would run instead. (I have had bad luck with LRs most of the times I used them... so eh) and on other thing, you have plenty of dakka, but very little in the way of armor killing. I mean, what happens if you are faced with a AV13-14 wall? or 2 LRs carrying dedicated CC units? those AC and 1 MM won't be near enough even if you did keep it, and even if you use your DW command squad to beat them off, the damage will most likely already be done with them diminishing most of your squads. of course, these are some worst case things, imaging 2 mauler fiends running at you. What do you do? anyway whatever you decide to do GL mate!

That's not even true dude, the exact thing it says on the codex is

-take a cyclone missile launcher
-replace his storm bolter with....

Logic would indicate you need to have that weapon available to substitute, if you switch out your storm bolter for a plasma cannon you no longer have the required storm bolter/power fist in order to take a TH/SS

whoops looking at an old FAQ again, disregard that, anyway. The reason I say a CML is sub par is because, MLs kinda suck. and its sooo expensive. if your wanting the unit to have all TH/SS then its the only option. but I can tell you what I am targeting first... that command squad. and my DC in a LR will wreck some face (specially with no FNP) not saying I could finish the rest off. but your biggest threat IS the banner. though eldar and tau can just sit 30" away and take pot shots :( I wish bolters had longer ranged.

I can also sit the banner carrier inside the land raider, and give dakka 6 inches from the hull, have fun popping the land raider then after that trying to pop the TH/SS squad all the while getting shot up by the gunline. You're having to first get through an AV 14 all around vehicle, then you have to get through TH/SS guys. I'm hoping your first target will be the banner carrier actually.

if its in a LR then I would actually ignore it, and wipe out your scoring units accepting that you would get the charge on something with your terminator squad. of course, like I said, this is me and my BA army XD. an eldar or tau player would probably be able to sit back out of your range and trim you down nicely.

The banner has been FAQ so if it's inside a transport then it doesn't affect anything outside. Gutted.

SpankingApe wrote:
The banner has been FAQ so if it's inside a transport then it doesn't affect anything outside. Gutted.

uhh, no, I see nowhere that it says that, I see the PFG does not radiate from the hull, but the banners still do.

I'd put the TH/SS terminators in the LRC and have the banner radiate outwards. Then, depending on the army you can either sit back or move up the first few turns to take a nice mid-field position where the bolters are going to be effective. Even if they do kill the LRC then you still have all those terminators inside I would maybe try and trim some points off to put a single apothecary in that squad to give them all FNP as well. 3 2+, 3++ with FNP sounds better than 4 2+5++ to me, especially becuase volume of fire is what will kill them, not ap2.

I would then put the librarian with a squad of tacticals and give him a PFG to add in some invulns to the squad. If playing this way, you could probably drop the bikes altogether to free up those points for other upgrades, possibly a sixth terminator (the apothecary mentioned above?) You could also substitute the bikes for two landspeeder typhoons, who can be some decent fire support (more missiles) and stay back and harass. At 1250 having more missiles is always good as AV14 is going to be less common I think. Those are my thoughts, ymmv.

I was planning a similar style using drop pods and the FNP banner to give me precision FNP when my pods land in their face. Probably less viable than your list, but still has the basic tacticals supported by terminator HQ squad. Good luck, list sounds cool!

- VardenV2

VardenV2, I like your idea, unfortunately with the upgrades I'm dropping a lot of stuff, I also don't like having nothing to help with flyers so I was thinking I should switch out the plasma cannons with missile launchers w/ flakk. Here would be a modified list.

HQ:
1x libby in termy armor w/ PFG
1x DW command squad, 3x TH SS, 1x apothecary, 1x champion, 1x dakka banner, 1x CML

Troops:
10x tactical squad ML w/ Flakk
10x tactical squad ML w/ Flakk
10x tactical squad ML w/ Flakk

Heavy:
Land raider crusader w/ multi melta

Another possibility would be
HQ:
1x libby in termy armor w/ PFG
1x DW command squad, 3x TH SS, 1x apothecary, 1x champion, 1x dakka banner

Troops:
10x tactical squad w/ plasma cannon
10x tactical squad w/ plasma cannon
10x tactical squad w/ plasma cannon

Heavy:
Land raider crusader w/ multi melta

Fortifications:
Aegis defense line

This takes off all the missiles for the command squad since it is just sitting in the land raider anyway, and goes back to plasma cannons with the added benefit of the PFG, and the aegis defense line. I think this adds the maximum survivability for all my units.

I like it, maybe grab 50 pts from somewhere if you can for a quad gun? or an Icarus lascannon for anti air?

The main issue you will have is a tactical one i think.

You mention : "The idea is to set up in a ruin, or somewhere else with decent cover saves, and sit back waiting for them to come within 24"

What if they dont need to come within 24" if they have longer range than you? (TAU, Eldar serpent spam, IG, DE....)

Also if your opponent is mechanised what would you do? you have very limited AT capacity as well as AA.