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One thing I don't get: people seem to be rather critical (softly spoken) towards Khawarijs, but then again, they think Tarik Mansuri is a good choice. I don't get this. He's double the cost, has better movement, MA2 and some other fun gadgets that, IMHO, about makes up for the points doubling. Then why are the standard Khawarijs so overpriced? You surely can pull the same amount of Assasin's Creed shenanigans whith it. Can someone please give me an explanation for this?

I think most of the comments about the khawarij are that its overcosted compared to other models in the 25 - 30 point range, which is a lot of haqqs LI/ MI options. So if you are looking for something in the 25 - 30 point range there are better options than the khawarij. Tariq on the other hand is closer to an HI in stats and cost but comes with a 10 inch move and superjump! So he definitely seems like good value even compared to other HI options.

As bantha_beast said, Haqqislam has a lot of options in the 25-30pts area. Djanbazan (regenerating heavy hitters), Druze (cheaper with X-visors), Lasiqs (viral weapons, mimetism, climbing), Odalisques (basically heavy infantry), Hafzas (holoprojectors), Fidays (impersonators)...

The list of ~30pt models with great special rules in Haqqislam is pretty long. It's not that the Khawarij is bad, it's just that it doesn't do anything special to justify brining it if you have other models. There's nothing really wrong with actually using him, and plenty of people have fun with a super jumping model like that.

Got it. You're right, it's all about your competition...

Thing is, this is Infinity. A Khawarij with a rifle is still lethal, and it's definitely got some reasons to bring it. If you play on a board with a lot of verticality where you can get use out of super jump, he's suddenly a lot more useful.

He's just not considered most of the time because superjump doesn't bring a whole lot to a game, since games of Infinity don't always have a lot of vertical gameplay.

There's other units that suffer from this - Sekban have Zero G movement rather than multi terrain, so they fall behind some other units in the same bracket like Odalisques because their rules don't always come into play. They're still not bad units, but some rules are more situational.

Something you need to remember in Infinity is there really are no outright bad choices, but people will favour some units over others. Don't get into the habit of trying to netlist, just put together units you like and make it work.

Problem is, I don't play a lot. Only me and my friend play Infinity, and there's our gaming club which doesn't count many Infinity players AFAIK (but they're gonna sell it as well, however, that may take another few months), so when I play, I want to have a good list, whith good units. I don't have many experience to call upon (as stated above) so the most obvious solution is to look up on forums what units they like and don't like. I'm not 'netlisting', but when a opinion on a unit is shared by many forum members, that will be a relevant factor.

A good list with good units is any list.

Don't think of this like 40k. There are no good and bad units. Everything has a use, even if it might be a bit situational, and everything that has a gun can kill a rampaging heavy infantry dead in one burst.

There's a very different mentality behind building an infinity list to a 40k list. You literally can make a list out of models you think look badass and win with it.

 -Loki- wrote:
...You literally can make a list out of models you think look badass and win with it.

...To a point. Most (if not all) models have very good uses, but there's plenty of randomly thrown-together lists which just won't work well or won't be fun to play.
Just making sure you have a bit of everything (and for starters, plenty of high BS good weapons) will generally get you there no matter what unit they are on. That's true. but to say you can do anything you feel like and still be competitive? Naah. order count, having specialists, making sure to have some gear to counter annoying stuff you know turns up a lot in your meta with, it all does matter.

It does, but there are degrees of it (shades of grey)* It's not one of those games where you can look at the 2 lists and say "yep, he's won". That 3-4 years or whatever it was designing and fine-tuning the rules definitely does shine through I think..

I like this sentiment:

Don't get into the habit of trying to netlist, just put together units you like and make it work.

I'm definitely a strong advocate of having a few games with each list, no matter how much it might seem to suck in the 1st game and how badly you get hammered. Think this game really has a great capacity to learn from your mistakes, and try things from different angles.

* although not 50 of them!

Oh definitely; there are however plenty of lists where you can say "oh, he's not going to be doing all that great".
I just think it's kinda misleading to tell new players they can just pop anything they feel like onto the battlefield and it'll work fine - 'cause that's just not true. It most definitely *can* be your list.

This does, incidentally, inevitably go for any game where listbuilding is a meaningful game mechanic.

edit to * and with some of those stupid VIP poses, you really wouldn't know much of a difference any more.

I meant that I don't play that much, so every game I play should be as much fun as I can have. Which means lots of funny tricks, both pulled by me and my opponent. And I think Super Jump is really funny, so I asked whether there was a big difference in performance. Apparently, there is not, so I think I'm gonna field a Khawarij. He'll make a very good distraction, and I think it's going to be fun when he either dies from a bad jump, or make everyone turn around so my HMGs can shoot them in the back. He'll make some use out of the proverd that the most difficult spot is usually the least defended spot

Just another point - it's hard to make a 300pt Haqqislam list without tricks of some sort. Mines, movement tricks, resiliance tricks, model hiding tricks... you'll wind up with some or all of them, and others, in an Haqqislam force.

My current 200pt lineup has quite a few and that's with nearly half the models being cheerleaders. I can bring models back with my doctor, I can hack, both normally and through markers with my Barid, I've got a heavy infantry masquerading as a light infantry - an Odalisque, mines on a Al Hawwa sniper, and two models with V: Dogged, which lets them keep running around killing things if they get knocked unconsious, but then die outright when I stop spending orders.

But yeah, I've wanted to try a Khawarij out for a long while. I love the model, and I typically play on boards with dense, vertical movement where even a simple rifle can make a difference if I can basically cheat on movement by changing levels without stairs and ladders. The only thing stopping me is I haven't gotten around to buying the model yet, and I dislike proxying.