Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So. I'm pretty interested in Be'lakor, the first daemon prince, and I was wondering:

Is there any fluff for him besides what was put in the dataslate and his GW page?
Especially stuff like which god gave him power (according to the CSM codex, it must have been one of them).

There doesn't seem to be much on him, Lexicanum's page says:
"Much of his origins are hidden behind legend and rumour. Even the Grey Knights know very little of his history. What little information there is on him suggests that he has been ruling over mortal empires since the dawn of time, only to abandon them when they would fall into decline"

There's a bit more about his exploits and methods on the page, he's quite interesting, despite the lack of info.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Be%27lakor#.UrHH8chFDIU

Just to begin with, there are lots of undivided Daemon and Daemon Princes in the setting. And a chaos unmarked character can become an Undivided Daemon Prince in the game following the Warriors of Chaos rule, so they are still in game.

The last Codex force you to take a mark, and claims that there are only four Chaos Gods. But right until then there were countless gods, and marks were optional, not compulsory. No reason is given for this change, and it creates a long list of characters that suddenly have to get a mark. Perturabo and Lorgar are the most famous Undivided Princes, but there are many.

So the existence of Be´Lakor is somehow in the middle between highly conflicting versions of the same fluff.

1988 - October 2013: someone worshipping different Chaos Gods at the same time ("chaos undivided black legion style", so to say) or someone that worship Chaos as a whole and openly despises the marks (word bearers style) can ascend to daemonhood and become a Daemon Prince. Same for Night Lords and Iron Warriors.

October 2012 and March 2013: all Chaos Undivided is retconned by Phil Kelly in the Codex: Chaos Space Marines and Codex: Chaos Daemons with a single sentence in the fluff section and the lack of options in some units. Many characters stop existing or must be redefined. Out of the Kelly Codexes, nobody else follows this and Chaos Undivided is still there. Players who were playing undivided legions (with undivided daemon princes) start complaining. (Actually it seems I am the only one) (which is sad).

December 2013: Be´Lakor is taken from Warhammer Fantasy and shoe-horned into 40000. But he is undivided, so it is said that he is a follower of the four gods, in turn (black legion style). This is enough to turn him into a Daemon Prince, according to the pre-Kelly background. It seems the retcon has been de-retconned, yet the dataslate also claims that the gods soon started to raise up only marked Daemon Princes. Which may indicate that Be´Lakor is the only Undivided Prince, in spite of Undivided Princes still playing important roles in the setting.

 Selym wrote:

Is there any fluff for him besides what was put in the dataslate and his GW page?

No, because he was a Warhammer Fantasy character right before the dataslate. He is a brand new addition to the setting.

There is a lot of stuff about him in Fantasy, but it is different and does not compute. Fantasy has even more undivided princes and more Chaos Gods and lots of stuff.

One more thing: the model is awesome. In my opinion is perhaps the best model GW ever did.

I was under the impression that be'lakor was something different, a daemon prince of "chaos united" rather than a daemon of chaos undivided.

kingleir wrote:
I was under the impression that be'lakor was something different, a daemon prince of "chaos united" rather than a daemon of chaos undivided.

He is. Just like Perturabo and Lorgar.
But he's dramatically weaker rules wise (-2 or 3 in every stat) for some strange reason.

kingleir wrote:
I was under the impression that be'lakor was something different, a daemon prince of "chaos united" rather than a daemon of chaos undivided.

This "chaos united" is called Chaos Undivided. No difference.

Other examples of Undivided Daemon Princes are: Lorgar, Perturabo, Ingethel the Ascended, Periclitor the Foresworn, Krieg Acerbus and M´kar the Reborn
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Acerbus#.UrLwe_TuIuc
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Periclitor#.UrLwnPTuIud
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ingethel#.UrLwrvTuIuc
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/M%27kar#.UrLw0_TuIuc

Since Chaos only unites when there is something that need to be done in the real world, some of the most powerful followers of Chaos Undivided are Champions, not Daemon Princes.
Examples include: Kor Phaeron, Luther, Abaddon (the most important in the current moment), Horus, Erebus... the list is long.

In Warhammer Fantasy the most important Champion of Chaos Undivided is Archaon the Everchosen. But he has some rivals in the favor of the gods, and the most important is the Daemon Prince Be´Lakor. This is the character that just moved to 40k. Since the Undivided supreme Champion is Abaddon, Be´Lakor is depicted openly competing with him.

Hmm I guess I'm wrong, but I thought the chaos gods activelycompeted for most undivided princes, all of them gifting in the hopes of attaining fealty, whereas be'lakor was made from genuine teamwork of all the gods.

kingleir wrote:
Hmm I guess I'm wrong, but I thought the chaos gods activelycompeted for most undivided princes, all of them gifting in the hopes of attaining fealty, whereas be'lakor was made from genuine teamwork of all the gods.

All Chaos Undivided champions are born of a "deal" or "truce" between the gods, an instant of peace in their eternal war against each other. The Horus Heresy was the most important point where all Chaos tried to work together.

However, Chaos Gods always compete. "Genuine teamwork" is not in their vocabulary.

The same applies to Be´Lakor: (all sources are from the Dataslate, the only source for Be´Lakor that I know of).
Beginning: "Raised up from mortality by the Gods of Chaos combined, he was given a portion of each of their power." -> same way all Undivided DP are described.
Soon: "Be’lakor’s fate has ever been influenced by the endless struggle between the gods, as he is beholden to each of the Dark Gods equally. At first, Be’lakor used the jealousy of the Ruinous Powers to gain their favours, never completely swearing his allegiance to any one of them. For a time, the gods fought over Be’lakor as children might squabble over a favoured toy."

There are exceptions: Lorgar worships Chaos as a single thing, seeing the Chaos Gods as facets of a bigger entity beyond. This is the entity the Cabal and the Eldar branded "the Primordial Annihilator". Word Bearers look down to those that accept a mark of a single god. They see that like a Christian would see a person worshipping Saint Michael over God.
Ingethel was created for a single purpose: to serve as Lorgar´s mentor. Or serve as an ambassador of the Chaos Gods. It is unclear. Anyway, a Khorne Daemon broke the deal without time for Ingethel to finish her work.

On the other side, Perturabo´s ascension is described with the same words. And the IW worship the Chaos as a pantheon of gods. And they are not particularly big in faith.

The Night Lords (including Daemon Princes) despise those who have faith and see Chaos as a tool. This pleases the gods too.