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Hi all, any ideas on how to make the DA part of DV competitive at 750? Right now I'm thinking about adding a razorback with TL lascannon and taking out the librarian. I would also split the tac squad in two. However I don't know what else to add. My budget is around $50 and I'm fine getting stuff from eBay.

Any ideas?

Lets consider what the DV starter gets first of all:

Company Master - Terrible terrible choice. Never before have the words "company master" and "competitive been used together in the same sentence in regards to DA in 6th.

Librarian - Fantastic choice, one of the best picks of the codex. Cheap prescience with access to PFG. If you aren't taking a special character, this should be your go to warlord.

Terminators - They are fluffy, they look cool, and unfortunately they are over costed. Not the most competitive choice in 6th ed meta.

Tac squad(s) - The staple of most base marine armies, reliable but not fantastic. Consider the librarian with PFG if you predict heldrakes.

RAS - Bike armies are a bike hit this edition, but one unit of 3 guys is going to find it tough to make much of a difference.

Overall, 750 isn't a lot to go with, and the base of your forces already uses up most of this. You do not have much in the way of scoring troops and your anti tank is pretty limited.

Still, imo the most competitive thing you could do if you wish to use all these models is count the Company master as Azreal (They have exactly the same wargear, right down to the feathered helmet).
This way you easily reach the 750 limit without spending any money at all (in fact some things will need to be cut as you will be a little over), and also your terminators and bikes become scoring which will greatly improve the list's competitiveness.
Azrael himself is a pretty decent model on his own. However at such low points you may find it difficult to justify 200+ on one character.

You're going to need another troops or the army isn't legal. I suggest taking the master and termies out and putting something more flexible in their place.

Tac squad could be broken into two 5 man units if he needs to (no I don't mean as combat squads), so this isn't much of a problem. It would leave him with very weak scoring capabilities though.

I'd be going with something along the lines of this:

Librarian (65p)

10 Tac Marines - full plas (185p)
5 Sniper Scouts - cloaks (70p)

5 DW - assault cannon, chainfist (245p)
6 Ravenwing - 2 meltas (181p)

Total: 746p



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You could change the 10 man for two 5 man tacs if you wanted

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Lets consider what the DV starter gets first of all:

Company Master - Terrible terrible choice. Never before have the words "company master" and "competitive been used together in the same sentence in regards to DA in 6th.

Librarian - Fantastic choice, one of the best picks of the codex. Cheap prescience with access to PFG. If you aren't taking a special character, this should be your go to warlord.

Terminators - They are fluffy, they look cool, and unfortunately they are over costed. Not the most competitive choice in 6th ed meta.

Tac squad(s) - The staple of most base marine armies, reliable but not fantastic. Consider the librarian with PFG if you predict heldrakes.

RAS - Bike armies are a bike hit this edition, but one unit of 3 guys is going to find it tough to make much of a difference.

Overall, 750 isn't a lot to go with, and the base of your forces already uses up most of this. You do not have much in the way of scoring troops and your anti tank is pretty limited.

Still, imo the most competitive thing you could do if you wish to use all these models is count the Company master as Azreal (They have exactly the same wargear, right down to the feathered helmet).
This way you easily reach the 750 limit without spending any money at all (in fact some things will need to be cut as you will be a little over), and also your terminators and bikes become scoring which will greatly improve the list's competitiveness.
Azrael himself is a pretty decent model on his own. However at such low points you may find it difficult to justify 200+ on one character.

This sounds like a good list but I'm still a bit worried about spending a huge amount if points on HQ and having no anti tank. Azreal sounds like an awesome idea as he turns the deathwing and ravenwing into troops. Is there any way to fit a land speeder typhoon or razorback with TL lascannon for anti tank? Or an attack bike with melta.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Payne wrote:
I'd be going with something along the lines of this:

Librarian (65p)

10 Tac Marines - full plas (185p)
5 Sniper Scouts - cloaks (70p)

5 DW - assault cannon, chainfist (245p)
6 Ravenwing - 2 meltas (181p)

Total: 746p



Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could change the 10 man for two 5 man tacs if you wanted

This sounds like a balanced list. How good are the sniper scouts though? I've heard some bad things about them.

In the list I've written there's 2 meltaguns, plus the termi squad w AC and chainfist. At 750 that's plenty of anti-tank...


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You're also only getting 3 bikes and a scout squad extra - should be pretty easy to find for less than 50 on eBay

Do you mean meltas mounted on attack bikes or like the plasma gun on one of the dv bikers?

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Still, imo the most competitive thing you could do if you wish to use all these models is count the Company master as Azreal (They have exactly the same wargear, right down to the feathered helmet).
This way you easily reach the 750 limit without spending any money at all (in fact some things will need to be cut as you will be a little over), and also your terminators and bikes become scoring which will greatly improve the list's competitiveness.

I second taking Azrael. He's a beast in CC and will make the list much better thanks to the addition of scoring units. I would give one bike a Meltagun, split the tac squad into two units of 5 each with a lascannon or missile launcher. Obviously this will require you to hunt down some speacial/heavy weapon bits but that's cheaper than buying a speeder or attack bike, lol.

OK I'll try taking something like this:

HQ: Azreal, librarian

Elite: Terminator squad with assault cannon, chainfist

Troops: Tac squad (5) w/ ML, Tac squad (5) w/ LC

Fast Attack: 3x ravenwing, 1 w/ meltagun

That's a good list, although I would rather see some more bodies instead of the Librarian. You also do not have any reliable way to deal with flyers, maybe the Tactical Squads should have Missile Launchers with Flakk Missiles?

 Arcturus314 wrote:
Do you mean meltas mounted on attack bikes or like the plasma gun on one of the dv bikers?

Like the plasma biker but meltas. Shouldn't be too hard to change the plasma guy's arm


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 Arcturus314 wrote:
OK I'll try taking something like this:

HQ: Azreal, librarian

Elite: Terminator squad with assault cannon, chainfist

Troops: Tac squad (5) w/ ML, Tac squad (5) w/ LC

Fast Attack: 3x ravenwing, 1 w/ meltagun

IMO, not enough body count and too many points in HQ.
Personally I wouldn't be taking Azrael at 750 but that's your choice. If you are taking him, don't take the Libby.
Also I'd be going 2 ML as lascannons are pretty limited and are also more expensive.
Finally I'd be want more bikes - at the moment that units pretty fragile...

 Brother Payne wrote:

 Arcturus314 wrote:
Do you mean meltas mounted on attack bikes or like the plasma gun on one of the dv bikers?

Like the plasma biker but meltas. Shouldn't be too hard to change the plasma guy's arm


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Arcturus314 wrote:
OK I'll try taking something like this:

HQ: Azreal, librarian

Elite: Terminator squad with assault cannon, chainfist

Troops: Tac squad (5) w/ ML, Tac squad (5) w/ LC

Fast Attack: 3x ravenwing, 1 w/ meltagun

IMO, not enough body count and too many points in HQ.
Personally I wouldn't be taking Azrael at 750 but that's your choice. If you are taking him, don't take the Libby.
Also I'd be going 2 ML as lascannons are pretty limited and are also more expensive.
Finally I'd be want more bikes - at the moment that units pretty fragile...

I agree about the librarian. Possibly get rid of him and add 2x bikers?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just checked the points. I can only have 4x bikers at 750. With this I would have:

HQ: Azreal

Troops: 5x terminators, AC, chainfist

Troops: 2x five man tac squad w/ ML

Troops: 4x bikers w/ meltagun

Possibly flak on the ML?


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Total 747 pts

Seems ok to me
A little concerned that you're going to need basically sacrifice to use one of your tac squads to shooting as a bodyguard for Azrael as you walk him across the board. Just make sure you tie up the opposition's shooty stuff the the terminators and bikes

Not enough points. Just edited my last post.

I could reduce the number of bikes to 3 and add another melta and flakk

I read the points wrong (730 instead of 747) my bad


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Leave it as is - I edited my previous post - sorry for the confusion

No problem

Never take flak missiles, they are terribly overcosted. at 750 you shouldn't face many flyers, and 1 str 7 shot per turn won't do much.

If taking Azrael then I'd drop the librarian as well, too many points in HQ if you are taking both.

I've got a ravenwing army myself made of exclusively DV bikers, and the arms are very easy to convert to what weapon you need. I'd recommend metlas on the bikes, and never take plasma. If you want plasma bikers for DA then take a ravenwing command squad.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Never take flak missiles, they are terribly overcosted. at 750 you shouldn't face many flyers, and 1 str 7 shot per turn won't do much.

If taking Azrael then I'd drop the librarian as well, too many points in HQ if you are taking both.

I've got a ravenwing army myself made of exclusively DV bikers, and the arms are very easy to convert to what weapon you need. I'd recommend metlas on the bikes, and never take plasma. If you want plasma bikers for DA then take a ravenwing command squad.

Bit late mate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I play a lot of 500pt games and I see flyers in those. Namely stormtalons and heldrakes. Basically every 500pt CSM list I've seen has a heldrake. So fliers at 750 won't be that uncommon.


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On that note: Arcturus what's your likely opposition?

Heldrakes at 750 are a bit cheesy. Also 1 flakk shot will do nothing. It doesn't even have interceptor. It would be burnt off the board the moment the drake arrives.

If you are expecting flyers then a list change is needed. Probably a librarian with pfg and an aegis line with quad. But that will require a lot of reworking of your list.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Heldrakes at 750 are a bit cheesy. Also 1 flakk shot will do nothing. It doesn't even have interceptor. It would be burnt off the board the moment the drake arrives.

If you are expecting flyers then a list change is needed. Probably a librarian with pfg and an aegis line with quad. But that will require a lot of reworking of your list.

This is also true. The fact that helturkeys are cheese doesn't stop anyone. When has it ever?

 Brother Payne wrote:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Never take flak missiles, they are terribly overcosted. at 750 you shouldn't face many flyers, and 1 str 7 shot per turn won't do much.

If taking Azrael then I'd drop the librarian as well, too many points in HQ if you are taking both.

I've got a ravenwing army myself made of exclusively DV bikers, and the arms are very easy to convert to what weapon you need. I'd recommend metlas on the bikes, and never take plasma. If you want plasma bikers for DA then take a ravenwing command squad.

Bit late mate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I play a lot of 500pt games and I see flyers in those. Namely stormtalons and heldrakes. Basically every 500pt CSM list I've seen has a heldrake. So fliers at 750 won't be that uncommon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On that note: Arcturus what's your likely opposition?

CSM and Eldar. No flyers (yet).

Should be ok for CSM, probably ok for Eldar too.
Do you know what either of them are running? In particular the Eldar player?

I'm not sure. I think it's jetbike heavy though.


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The CSM player has a bunch of cultists and the helbrute from DV.

HQ: Azreal

Troops: 5x terminators, AC, chainfist

Troops: 2x five man tac squad w/ ML

Troops: 4x bikers w/ meltagun

This list, I believe, would probably be the best TAC list you could make if you wish to use all the units from the DV box set.

If you are expecting more heavy infantry then some plasma cannons might outeperfom the MLs.

If you opponent is using waveserpents then your best bet is to get in cc with the bikes, if that is possible. Shooting them is a waste of time.

Thanks for the help with tactics. I'll try it after I buy the other bike.