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Hey so I'm putting together a mission for my group. The acolytes get dropped onto a world, incredibly backwards scientifically so their use of weapons that aren't primitive will be limited. The main opponent will be snakebite (really primitive) orks, and I was wondering how many orks (who aren't using sluggas and shootas, just choppas and throwing weapons) a group of 3-4 level 1 acolytes can handle? Would I be better off having 3-4 gretchin and 1 ork, or should they be able to handle 2-4 orks without dying (short of spiked rolls). This is using primitive weapons mind, since they won't be able to use their best weapons in full view of the local humans without some serious verbal shenanigans.

So yeah, really just a query about how many orks a group of 3-4 level 1s (average stats, at this stage probable a cleric, assassin and not sure on the other 2) can handle while using primitive weapons.

I would recommend having their primitive weapons mono'd so while they do look like basic swords and knives, they got more sharpness and would be more useful, giving them an invisible edge, or at least one very hard to spot, short of a blacksmith looking into those weapon with more details.

As for Orks..well..a single one in melee will kill off that rank 1 group which have weak weapons, little skills and possibly little to no armour.

The mono weapons will give them an edge (ha!) but if you do, go with an Ork and 2-3 Gretchins.

Orks are quite hard to kill. I've found that 3 Level 3's had a lot of trouble with 4 Orks, as that TB8 is very hard to get through with standard weaponry. I'd limit it to 2 Orks at most, supplemented by Grots.

And Snakebites aren't really primitive. They're traditionalists. Feral Orks are primitive.

Cheers, I have only ended up against chaos cults and what not in DH as a player/GM, so I've never tangled with an ork before, so I haven't seen how they go against a group. I'll ensure they have mono weapons/the ability to get some decent (albiet primitive) armour when they make landfall.

And good point HBMC, that was a slip of my mind. I was thinking of that old WD codex and thought of snakebites for some reason, when it was feral orks.

I equipped my players with a good quality learther jacket, looks basic enough but it is still 3-4 of armour value

Frag Grenades were basically the way they dealt with the Orks. 2d10 damage, hope you roll above an 8.

Oh, I was talking in general; for orks during mission #1, it was all about stealth and evading them, using the aupex to scan them and take another route or hide or trick them to look elsewhere..
mission #5, the TP had a power weapon, assassin had a sniper rifle and a few mercs covering them on the wagon of the steam train they were riding. Really the high point was when the steering wheel got stuck in the driva's hand the trukk droved away and then exploded mid-air as it flipped.

Why did it explode? Because Orks, that's why.

I don't know DH enough to comment, but as general GMing advice, leave yourself 'trap doors' to adjust difficulty, or at least to get an idea of how tough the party is.

For fighting on a wild planet with orks, maybe in the middle of the fight something else shows up (some sort of squig-creature?) that is happy to eat Orks as well as PCs. It's first action might even be to attack one of the Orks to show it's lack of allegiance! This gives the PCs a chance to run away and regroup, or try to finish it.

Also, keep in mind that a new group of PCs is going to be less than optimum in combat at first as the players are learning their characters. Learning synergies and such (think where power A makes ability B more useful) takes some time.

As a final thought, I'd strongly recommend making sure the players are cool with the primitive world theme. This looks like it could make anyone with Adeptus Mechanicus ties, or even just a lot of gun-specialists, borderline useless. Players who find they've built a character that is completely useless tend to be unhappy.

Is there a reason for stripping them down to primitive gear? I didn't think the Imperium had anything like Star Trek's Prime Directive, and a plasma pistol can be used as a negotiating tool.

I dislike Dark Heresy for this exact reason (well I should say "that is one thing I dislike about Dark Heresy". The system itself is fun overall). There's absolutely no system in place to tell you how difficult an encounter is supposed to be short of trial and error. I guess you figure it out by experience but it's rough for a rookie GM.

I've actually run into that with a lot of RPGs. I guess I'm just spoiled since I got into the hobby through 4e D&D and its superbly balanced combat system.

 Balance wrote:
Helpful GMing advice

Thanks for all that advice

 Balance wrote:
As a final thought, I'd strongly recommend making sure the players are cool with the primitive world theme. This looks like it could make anyone with Adeptus Mechanicus ties, or even just a lot of gun-specialists, borderline useless. Players who find they've built a character that is completely useless tend to be unhappy.

Is there a reason for stripping them down to primitive gear? I didn't think the Imperium had anything like Star Trek's Prime Directive, and a plasma pistol can be used as a negotiating tool.

Yeah I am making this one up from scratch, and since it'll be their first mission I'll give them the option of doing this one or doing the one from the back of the Core Rulebook. So they won't be forced into this one, I'll let them know it's a primitive world mission and that they'll have to be inventive in how they employ their tech, and they can take it if they want, or leave it for later.

And the reason for it is that the Imperium is reclaiming these worlds in a Crusade, but haven't got to this one yet with the main thrust of the crusade. Their Inquisitor is from the Ordo Xenos and wants these Orks dealt with because Xenos (I'll think of something better before the game) and sends his acolytes in to cut the head off and leave them in disarray prior to the arrival of the rest of the crusade. The world is a feudal world, think medieval Europe, and have a remnant worship of the God-Emperor present as a worship of 'the Father', especially in regards to the sky (Sun/Moon worship, stars, etc, you know what I mean?). Because of these structures already being in existence, and the fertility of the world, the Imperium would rather just, when they take the world, place a Governor at the top of the feudal structure (because that works better than throwing him on top of a democratic/communist sort of structure, in that he has all the power) and get the Ecclesiarchy to reinstate the God-Emperor in his entirety, which should be easy considering the remnant worship already present. Because of this, if they destroy the fabric of their culture and society (for example, by negotiating with a Duke with a plasma pistol ) you can imagine that instead of a world ripe for the taking and gradual turning into a useful agri-world, the Imperium will have a world in turmoil that they'll have to pacify (and while it wouldn't cost them too many troops, it would cost them time which they cannot spare on the crusade).

Or something like that. So the acolytes can use their tech when there are no natives around, i.e. when they go after the orks in their encampment at the end of the mission assuming they thought to bring weapons and stash them somewhere before meeting the locals. They could also try and convince the natives that they are messengers from 'the Father'. I am going to give them the option to arrive by drop pods, they'll appear like shooting stars and get a +undecided to tests convincing locals who saw these 'shooting stars' that they are holy messengers, but if they don't destroy the pods when they leave them they will eventually get found and it'll cause problems for the party. But as messengers from the Father, they can probably get away with their miraculous objects that kill the green menace threatening the natives.

Really it'll be up to the party to either try and think of a way to convince the locals that it isn't tech, but instead magic, or just hiding their tech, going along with the locals and then picking it back up prior to the final few stages of the mission, when they have left the locals behind.

edit: reading back over that it was incredibly rambly, sorry.

Just because they're going to a primitive world doesn't mean they themselves must be primitive. Sure, they might not have access to high class gear once they're there, but the stuff they arrive with needn't be terrible. Lasgun charge packs can be recharged in an open flame (even if it does damage them somewhat), so for extended operations weapons like that are a good idea.

One thing I should point out is that the last time I used Orks against Acolytes they had two Servitors to help them out, including one with a Melta-Cutter. The Melta-Cutter isn't a very good weapon, but it does do heaps of damage and was the thing they leaned on heavily to get them through that combat (that and the aforementioned Frag Grenade spam), so what Balance says about leaving a trap door (the Orks being more scared of the Acolytes than the Acolytes are of them, or a Squig jumping in, etc.) is a really good back up plan to have on hand incase you find those blasted TB8 Orks are just proving too tough for your average Shotgun or Stub Revolver.

I've had this exact scenario in my first game. I teamed up 3 or and 2 corrupt guard against 3 lvl 1 acolytes.... They died.

I've found having them face an equal number of opponents is usually the go to. But id say 2 works and 2 gretchin but have the gretchin team up this way its a challenge but not overly lethal. Make a place for the assassin to pounce and cleric to hide. Add some extra thrones (25-40%) to armour to make it concealed and give them mono on weapons to give them the edge