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Good tidings folks.

Never played warmachine but it's very popular at my flgs so I'm considering joining in. As the only aesthetic I like in warmachine and hoards is cryx that's what I'm thinking at buti have a few questions

- are cryx any good/competitive
- is it best to start with the battle box
- if so what's good to buy next
- I've noticed some of the models are massively over priced (£80 for ten troop sized models, ouch) is therea way of building a competitive and cheep cryx army.


Thanks guys,

S

 hellrai3er wrote:
Good tidings folks.

Never played warmachine but it's very popular at my flgs so I'm considering joining in. As the only aesthetic I like in warmachine and hoards is cryx that's what I'm thinking at buti have a few questions

Welcome to the iron kingdoms. Don't forget to pick up the complimentary goggles and death jack plushie!

 hellrai3er wrote:


- are cryx any good/competitive

Cryx are extremely solid, and competitive. Have no fears - all factions in this game are extremely well balanced. As to 'good', the answer is no. They're evil. Very, very evil!

 hellrai3er wrote:

- is it best to start with the battle box

Yes.

 hellrai3er wrote:

- if so what's good to buy next

What do you like the look of? Everything can be built into a viable game winning strategy.

 hellrai3er wrote:

- I've noticed some of the models are massively over priced (£80 for ten troop sized models, ouch) is therea way of building a competitive and cheep cryx army.

'Depends on where you buy them', really. At my flags, prices are reasonable (even cone with a discount!). Then there is eBay or buying online... Plenty ways of doing it bud. 'Shop around', as they say.

And good luck!

 hellrai3er wrote:
Good tidings folks.

Never played warmachine but it's very popular at my flgs so I'm considering joining in. As the only aesthetic I like in warmachine and hoards is cryx that's what I'm thinking at buti have a few questions

- are cryx any good/competitive
- is it best to start with the battle box
- if so what's good to buy next
- I've noticed some of the models are massively over priced (£80 for ten troop sized models, ouch) is therea way of building a competitive and cheep cryx army.


Thanks guys,

S

All armies are competitive,the Cryx battle box is nasty in newb on newb matchups but the starters are almost universally a decent starting point.

As much as I hate groupthink and them specifically due to their ease of use the moar banes / keep calm and aply banes memes exist for a reason.

For a single full unit for Warmahordes can be more expensive than a comparable unit from GW but once you have it that will be the only one you need untill you get into weird / skew lists. So rather than wanting 3 of a unit X like in GW you only realy want 1 of 95% of the units in Warmahordes as a beginner and for most competitive play.

Really like the look of stuff like mechanithrall, cephalax and mind slaves, the scavenger bonejack.....

This is only from being on the opisite side but mechanithralls + necrosurgeon are an anoying tarpit that hurt from throwing out so many combo strikes. However if you are just starting stick with the battle box for several games.

I know one of the celephax units requires skill and understanding of the game to use (may be the trio and not the one + drudges though) and looking at Battle College the scavenger has some good tricks and could be a lot of fun to use but it also looks like a persision tool. I would suggest if you do want more than just the battle box go with the mechanithralls as they are definitely easy to use on their own and remain a nuisance for your enemy if you do stick with Warmachine.

If you've gotten used to the 40k rules don't try to draw comparisons. Warmahordes is a completely different beast and trying to get a direct comparison will drive you crazy as most people on here won't give you a responce beyond GW and Warmahordes are nothing alike.

Edit: if you can download the quick-start rules and give them a once over. Link Scroll to the bottom to find them, you can probably ignore the errata for now but make sure you have the cards (backside) to look at at the same time.

Cephalyx have found a new home with one of the new themed lists in the latest No Quarter. So even they have a place.

About the only things I see utterly maligned by the Cryx community tend to be their bipedal heavy warjacks (kind of fragile), Cephalyx and Revenants (the ghost pirates). Even then there are lists and warcasters that can utilize all of them or protect all of them just fine, so you can grow into what you want, just some routes will be a bit shallower than others.

Others have noted the other bits, but as are repeat on price, units cost more for PP stuff but remember that the metal Bane Thralls you're looking at are all metal (which is just more expensive) and also probably the only unit of them most people need most of the time. That being said, plastic versions of them that cost less (not sure how much in GBP but probably about 40) come out in the next couple months anyhow.

And stuff.

 hellrai3er wrote:
Good tidings folks.

Never played warmachine but it's very popular at my flgs so I'm considering joining in. As the only aesthetic I like in warmachine and hoards is cryx that's what I'm thinking at buti have a few questions

- are cryx any good/competitive
- is it best to start with the battle box
- if so what's good to buy next
- I've noticed some of the models are massively over priced (£80 for ten troop sized models, ouch) is therea way of building a competitive and cheep cryx army.


Thanks guys,

S

All the factions are good/competitive. Certain models/combos in each faction may vary somewhat on the power scale or not synergise well with each other. But the game is very balanced and most "balance" issues only occur at the most competitive levels. Most "balance issues" that people complain about around your LGS is usually a lack of skill or a list that doesn't synergize well and/or lacks the tools to deal with a variety of threats.

Battlebox is great. For cryx I would expand by buying a unit, a skarlock and maybe a couple solos to compliment your unit choice.

I've heard that some prices overseas are nuts. However, for Cryx I would look at the new plastic bane thralls. They are a great unit with the UA and the plastic tend to be significantly cheaper. Those along with the battlebox should be relatively cheap while giving you a solid starting army. 2-3 solos and the UA should put you right around 35 points. Also, PP doesn't (normally) sell directly to customers like GW does. So stores (online or not) can price them however they want. Online discounts of 20% are not uncommon, at least in the States. Again, YMMV.

 hellrai3er wrote:
Good tidings folks.

Never played warmachine but it's very popular at my flgs so I'm considering joining in. As the only aesthetic I like in warmachine and hoards is cryx that's what I'm thinking at buti have a few questions

- are cryx any good/competitive
- is it best to start with the battle box
- if so what's good to buy next
- I've noticed some of the models are massively over priced (£80 for ten troop sized models, ouch) is therea way of building a competitive and cheep cryx army.


Thanks guys,

S

1. Are Cryx competitive? hehe... hehehoho...mahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes. People have often accused them of being OP but they just have a large bag of nasty tricks they keep pulling from.

2. Battle boxes are good ways to peek into a faction without heavy investment. The Cryx BB is 14 points compared to the usual 11 points most others are. Keep that in mind when using it.

3. What ever you like. I suggest finding a warcaster you think is interesting or cool and go from there.

4. There are many online discount sites, but I'm not familiar with what options would be best for Britain. That said, you're looking at metal models. 80 GBP is only for 1 man sized unit anymore, bane knights. Bane Thralls just got released in plastic bringing them down to ~$50 USD, I suspect Bane Knights are next on the chopping block for cryx's plastic. Compared to GW's pricier infantry like Grey Knights and Sternguard, PP's model price isn't that bad. Factor in the reduced number you need and it's considerably less expensive to get to what is considered large games in WM/H.

Deadnight wrote:

 hellrai3er wrote:
Good tidings folks.

Never played warmachine but it's very popular at my flgs so I'm considering joining in. As the only aesthetic I like in warmachine and hoards is cryx that's what I'm thinking at buti have a few questions

Welcome to the iron kingdoms. Don't forget to pick up the complimentary goggles and death jack plushie!

 hellrai3er wrote:


- are cryx any good/competitive

Cryx are extremely solid, and competitive. Have no fears - all factions in this game are extremely well balanced. As to 'good', the answer is no. They're evil. Very, very evil!

 hellrai3er wrote:

- is it best to start with the battle box

Yes.

 hellrai3er wrote:

- if so what's good to buy next

What do you like the look of? Everything can be built into a viable game winning strategy.

 hellrai3er wrote:

- I've noticed some of the models are massively over priced (£80 for ten troop sized models, ouch) is therea way of building a competitive and cheep cryx army.

'Depends on where you buy them', really. At my flags, prices are reasonable (even cone with a discount!). Then there is eBay or buying online... Plenty ways of doing it bud. 'Shop around', as they say.

And good luck!

Wow! Definitely not the kind of answer you'd get from a similar question about Warhammer. What's this balance you speak of? "Everything can be built into a viable game winning strategy?" Nay, I say. This must not be!

Okay, sorry, joking aside, yes, Warmachines is awesome for beginners. I got the Khador box and had a blast. When I get back to the states I'll probably play more Warmachine than 40k.

To say "everything can be built into a viable game winning strategy" is a lie. Far more can than GW games, but there are still a lot of stinkers among PP models/units.

Still, Cryx is a great army. Even so, be prepared to lose. A lot. And then lose some more. The learning curve of Warmahordes is very steep. An army built on tricks (like Cryx) is curve is even steeper.

The battle box is a great start for Cryx. You will use pretty much everything in it with some regularity.

Infantry and solos would be a good buy. Try to wait for the plastic banes. They are expensive, but stupidly good. Easily top 5 best infantry in the game, and really help take the edge off when learning. They perform miracles.

As for price, don't let anyone fool you. In the end, Warmahordes is comprable in price to 40k or fantasy. The initial investment is less, so it tempts new players more; but I don't want to derail this into a price battle.


TL;DR: Cryx rocks. Buy the box. Buy Banes.

Just be aware that you get more points in the Cryx battle box then any other box. Normal box has 11 points Cryx has 14.

In legion, everything I've used has been viable and effective...even pLylith won a game for me...and I thought she was an awful caster

Get
2xbane box
1x bane solo
1xskarlock
2xpistol wraights
1xbox of those exploding meat sack dudes
1x full unit of satrix
1x satrix witch
2xarc node mini jacks

And two casters . For starters I would go with Skarr and one of the Asphyxius.

Should be a good starting force , nothing to complicated to learn how to play .
Next buy should be one more box of banes The Lich big lich Lord and the elf Caster, he is realy good in small point games , because he effectivly lets you play more points then anyone else .

scottagain wrote:
To say "everything can be built into a viable game winning strategy" is a lie. Far more can than GW games, but there are still a lot of stinkers among PP models/units.

To be fair, I've done rather well with my khador and circkle armies, despite the interwebs screaming (back in the day, especially) winter guard death star and kayazy spam..

Playing circle as well, you get the obvious 'goatvahna for the win' thing, and Cassius and grayle get seriously maligned. And with that said, Didn't a guy recently go off and win the Swedish masters with those very same 'maligned' casters. I've found that in general 'x is worst' is often translated as 'I don't like x'. Heck, lots of folks love pkrueger and ekrueger as top tier casters and I've never been able to get 'that' potential out of them. And I'm a decent player. I love kromac. Lots of tourney winning players think he's great (especially in the stares). A former multi - uk masters winner that I know utterly loathes him and thinks him pointless. Go figure...

Some things might be more 'obvious' than others, but I still maintain with the right support, everything has a place. Everything can be built into a game winning strategy. Some will be more situational than others, and that's part and parcel of the game. (as in, not with all casters, or requiring a decent match up - eg assault kommandos and Pfeora) but it can be done. Long story short is it's not smart to dismiss things out if hand in this game, in my experience at least,

scottagain wrote:
To say "everything can be built into a viable game winning strategy" is a lie. Far more can than GW games, but there are still a lot of stinkers among PP models/units.

I think there's a "core" of most factions that's very solid and people can have a lot of success with in a lot of different ways. Then there are outlying models that need a lot of finesse or specific situations to be competitive.

Cryx pirates might be great, but you'd probably only use them once in a while in one or two lists successfully. Whereas your Banes, horny ladies, and Mechanithralls are going in 4/5 lists depending on your mood at any given moment.

I should add there's an element of individual model placement that is very important in WM/H, because each model shoots and is shot individually you need to change your placement to accommodate offense and defense, reach vs not, blocking LOS, sometimes redundantly... It goes on and on. Sometimes units have really steep learning curves, or your common opponents are just well equipped at dealing with them. I've had units that seem SO good on paper, and I've never had work well.

scottagain wrote:
To say "everything can be built into a viable game winning strategy" is a lie. Far more can than GW games, but there are still a lot of stinkers among PP models/units.

If I can build a viable list around Flameguard Cleansers its most definitely true. That is the only list I would ever consider for them, but it is a viable game winning strategy.

Yes, everything can be built to a skew list or to a very specific thing. That doesn't make it a good overall unit and you have to want to repeatedly play that specific thing. If you're playing nothing but Terminus or Skarre theme list that includes the pirates, or an incorporeal spam skew list, you probably won't get nearly the use out of the models as you will with Banes of any variety, Satyxis of either variety, or Mechanithralls. Heck, even Soul Hunters have started seeing more and more play lately, and will likely continue to increase in popularity once Bane Riders hit the shelves.

Cryx's most maligned unit, the Cephalyx and Drudges, were put into one our best warcaster's theme list as a reason to run them. If it wasn't for the Tier 4 bonus, I sincerely doubt people would bother with that list and if given the option to swap out the Drudges for something more reliable they would without a second thought.

Actually, the list discounting the units and having synergies wiht other things allowed creates a neat amout of recursion that is good for scenario play. There's a lot of generally good tech in that list and it's an example if anything of "Can be good sometimes in specific situations" at least.

And stuff.

I think the take-home point is that while all (maybe I should say most just to cover my bases) models can be used in some context, they can require a list that matches them. It's not "you can use whatever combination of models you like and win with your superior generalship and understanding of how they work together," it's "every model has a worthy place in some list."

If you really like a particular model, you can rest assured it has a place somewhere. That place might not be with the other models you like, though...

 HiveFleetPlastic wrote:
I think the take-home point is that while all (maybe I should say most just to cover my bases) models can be used in some context, they can require a list that matches them. It's not "you can use whatever combination of models you like and win with your superior generalship and understanding of how they work together," it's "every model has a worthy place in some list."

If you really like a particular model, you can rest assured it has a place somewhere. That place might not be with the other models you like, though...

Well put.

And stuff.

Indeed.

Much better wording. Almost everything can be built around, but don't think you can just grab a series of models that look good and end with a good army.

While the list of "this does nothing something else doesn't do better" is small, it is there. For example, the Trollblood Skinner.

scottagain wrote:
Much better wording. Almost everything can be built around, but don't think you can just grab a series of models that look good and end with a good army.

While the list of "this does nothing something else doesn't do better" is small, it is there. For example, the Trollblood Skinner.

I agree. For instance I think the Slag Troll is my favorite light beast in trolls. I love the concept behind the model. It's not used too much because there are other light beasts that are useful in a wider variety of circumstances, but that doesn't mean the slag troll is bad. In fact when you get in its wheelhouse (vs non living stuff and light jacks) it's really dang good!

Slag troll is awesome!

Especially if you are using specialists.

His animus is another damage buff and that doesn't hurt.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Slag troll is awesome!

Especially if you are using specialists.

His animus is another damage buff and that doesn't hurt.

Agreed. I was very disappointed when I ended up with a Slag in a lot, but I ran it because I own a lack of beasts for Trollbloods(I can't find a metal Pyre Troll to save my life) and it's a lot better than I thought it was.

It seems like the slag troll and the pyre troll are pretty much interchangeable from a "what role does this guy fill" perspective, except one does its thing with fire/living models and the other does corrosion/nonliving models. For some reason the pyre troll is the one everybody always takes.

Immunity to Fire is a little more useful than immunity to corrosion.

Plus trolls don't have issues cracking armor normally so the anti-infantry AOE is a little more useful. Plus you still have the damage buff either way.