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Looking at different ways to run a DA list. This is one that I came up with that I think looks pretty fun and possibly competitive (I hope):

HQ:
-Librarian: Bike, Power Field Generator
-Interrogator Chaplain: Bike, Power Field Generator
-x2 Ravenwing Command Squad x5: Apothecary, Champion
Points: 745

Troops:
-x3 Tactical Squad x10: Plasma gun, Rhino
Points: 570

Fast Attack
-Ravenwing Black Knights x6
Points: 294

Heavy Support
-x2 Devastator Squad: x4 lascannon
Points: 300

Fortification
Aegis Defence Line: Quad-gun
Points: 100

Total Points: 2009


I would stick the Librarian with one of the RW Command Squads for the 4++ and the Chaplin with the Black Knights for 4++ and feel no pain. The Dev Squad would be behind the Aegis Defense line popping anything they see. I would get my Black Knights up the field asap to start wrecking havoc. I would start moving my Rhinos towards objectives to secure and hold.

How effective do you think this list will be in general? What improvements would you make to it. What should I cut to get it exactly to 2000? What are this list weaknesses? Thanks a lot.

Are the command squads 3-man units? They can be increased to 5 due to the FAQ, allowing a larger use from the Apoth.
If they're already 5's, drop a single Tac marine to get under 2000.

Usefulidiot86 wrote:
and the Chaplain with the Black Knights for 4++ and feel no pain

Not sure how you're adding FnP here, Chaplains give Zealot (in itself not bad on BK's).

 Quanar wrote:
Are the command squads 3-man units? They can be increased to 5 due to the FAQ, allowing a larger use from the Apoth.
If they're already 5's, drop a single Tac marine to get under 2000.

Usefulidiot86 wrote:
and the Chaplain with the Black Knights for 4++ and feel no pain

Not sure how you're adding FnP here, Chaplains give Zealot (in itself not bad on BK's).

I'll have to edit that. The command squads are units of 5. I thought that Chaplains give a squad FNP? I don't have a rule book or codex in front of me so you are probably right. Should I switch out the Chaplain for something else or keep? Good catch and thanks.

Ravenwing command squads come as a 3 man squad, which can have 2 additional riders added to it if you pay the points for them.

Only 1 champion is allowed per army.

Chaplains do not give FNP. I have one on a bike with the mace of redemption for fun games, but a librarian and then more bikes is more competitive.

If you are making a black knight spam list, then consider the FNP banner to spread FNP around, and the second command squad can take the ravenwing banner.

I don't like the devastators. If I did run them on the aegis, then I would probably put a librarian with a PFG with them to give them a 4++ save vs drakes and taui, and also give them prescience or ignore cover if the situation arises.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:
Ravenwing command squads come as a 3 man squad, which can have 2 additional riders added to it if you pay the points for them.

Only 1 champion is allowed per army.

Didn't know that. I'll have to look that up and double check. Thanks.

Chaplains do not give FNP. I have one on a bike with the mace of redemption for fun games, but a librarian and then more bikes is more competitive.

Yeah, I have a big bike army. Just trying something a little different.

If you are making a black knight spam list, then consider the FNP banner to spread FNP around, and the second command squad can take the ravenwing banner.

Good Idea. changed up my list a little to include the FNP banner.

I don't like the devastators. If I did run them on the aegis, then I would probably put a librarian with a PFG with them to give them a 4++ save vs drakes and taui, and also give them prescience or ignore cover if the situation arises.

I removed the Chaplain from the bike and added another Librarian to sit with the Dev squads. I think that will work much better; however, if you don't like them what would you replace them with to deal with AA (if I don't run the Dev I'll probably get ride of ADL and quad) and tanks?

HQ:
-Librarian: Bike, Power Field Generator
-Librarian: PFG
-Ravenwing Command Squad x5: Apothecary, Champion
-Ravenwing Command Squad x5: Champion, FNP Banner
Points: 730

Troops:
-x3 Tactical Squad x10: Plasma gun, Rhino
Points: 570

Fast Attack
-Ravenwing Black Knights x6
Points: 294

Heavy Support
-x2 Devastator Squad: x4 lascannon
Points: 300

Fortification
Aegis Defence Line: Quad-gun
Points: 100

Total Points: 1994

I prefer running a less mobile and meatier version of my DA - predators, landraiders, assault squads, and dreadnoughts. I'm looking into the air units now and thinking of picking a couple of nephilim jet fighters up.

DA are pretty limited in terms of anti air atm.

1 squad of devs on an aegis supported by a PFG librarian will work fine.

Another idea is to make use of IA and get some mortis contemptors, or just normal mortis dreads. Both of these get skyfire and interceptor if they stand still.

The mortis contemptor used to be a mile better, but in the newest book it lost its BS 5 and had a points increase, so now both options are viable imo.

You've got two champions in there again. Besides, the RW champion is kind of bad. If he retained a corvus hammer and it was simply an upgrade to stats, he'd be better than using that gimp-ass Blade of Caliban. I only ever upgrade my dude to champion because 1) WYSIWYG and he was too cool a model to pass up, and 2) challenge bait so my interrogator-chaplain could go beat the hell out of whatever squad I charged.

I'd also highly recommend throwing the Mace of Redemption on the I-C, if you can find the points to spare. S7 AP3 (AP2 against Chaos Marines) and Blind/Concussive with zealot rerolls is pretty fun. I've had a lot of success with it. The black knights should be charging anything that survives their shooting, so being more of a beatstick is never a bad thing. Just depends on if you think it'll get your points back of not. Anything in Sv2+ the knights handle in the shooting phase, so the fact it's "only" AP3 is fine. Anything fielded in enough numbers the black knights don't obliterate in shooting, you'll be sure to thwomp the crap out of in assault.

It also adds more potential precision shots of course, which can be fun. The only time I've found I wished I didn't have the champion was when I charged a riptide, as the corvus would have come out ahead there.

Also second that he is a cool model.

Oh yeah, good point. I guess it gives you 2 black knights with precision shot as Apothecaries are characters, too.

I suppose I haven't had that actually come up in a game yet. Good call, though. Precisions are pretty fun against Devastator or equivalent squads, take out all the guns on guys they can't Look Out Sir.

Okay, was not able to find where it said I would only have one Champion, but I will take your word for it (could you tell me what page it is on).

I have been working on a different list that I think might be a little stronger. Let me know what you think:

HQ
-Sammael (200pts)
-Interrogator-Chaplain: Mace of Redemption, PFG (200pts)
-RWCS x5: Champion, FNP standard (290 pts)
-RWCS x4: Apothecary

Troops
-RAS x3: Combi-flamer (Sgt), x2 plasma guns, attack bike w/ multi-melta (175 pts)
-RAS x3: Combi-flamer (Sgt), x2 plasma guns, attack bike w/ multi-melta (175 pts)
-RAS x3: Combi-flamer (Sgt), x2 plasma guns, attack bike w/ multi-melta (175 pts)
-RAS x3: x2 meltagun (100 pts)
-RAS x6: Combi-flamer (Sgt), x2 Meltagun

Fast Attack
-Ravenwing Support Squd x3: HB and Typhoon ML (225 pts)
-Darkshroud (80 pts)

Total points: 2001
I would stick the IC with the banner squad and try to get a strong alpha strike with the bikes. Are there things you would change about this list? Thanks for any advice.

In the unit entry for Ravenwing command squad, it specifies that "One Ravenwing Black knight in the army..."

Which seems kind of dumb to me, but then again so does most of the DA codex.

The Chaplain has no Bike? Also consider that that PFG will give the 4++ to enemy units within 3" as well. Bites the Mace in the rear.

Plasma guns on bikes are just plain BAD. Black Knights are just simply better, compare the costs.

I'd say increase the bike squads to 6, you still can combat squad them. 2 Squads of 6 with a bike each still give you 6 scoring units. Less special weapons, though, but it saves you points for maybe a squad of Knights.

Wouldn't overdo it with the Apoc, the FNP covers that one (and you WANT that one to stay alive at all costs).

Also add some Grenade Launchers. The Rad and Stasis grenades are pretty neat.

Nuwisha wrote:
In the unit entry for Ravenwing command squad, it specifies that "One Ravenwing Black knight in the army..."

Which seems kind of dumb to me, but then again so does most of the DA codex.

There's only one champion in any given company, fluff wise, in any given chapter. Even the non-adherent chapters like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

Anyway, the thing about Power Field Generators is they gimp the squad that has it in melee. So, you throw it on something that's there to buff people rather than something designed to murder things. Pointless to take it on a chaplain, who should be doing everything in his power to get him and his squad into combat to utilize the sweet Hatred rerolls. Librarians are the obvious choice for it.