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Ooooh it has useful items and improved rules, lets run a campaign guys!

Game number 2.

What do you mean your possessed has wings of darkness, and can run 8, cast for another 12 inches of teleporting movement and charge my guys in the back? How is that balanced? Oh are there wyrdstone shards to collect? good thing the other 2 magisters took that spell, too. Now they can collect the shards in relative safety turn freaking one, and then fack off back to their board edge turn 2.

Oh my chosen got a point of strength last game, so he is strength 5 against your toughness 3. He bought poison for his sword. Whops rolled a one, time to reroll. Whops rolled a one again, well guess ill reroll. Wait how are you rerolling a reroll, you cant do that! Show me where on what page of the coreheim rules it specifies that. Oh it doesn't! Toll bad, guess I pretty much auto wound every round huh?

You have to be joking me if you are defending this as a better thought out rules set. Wings of darkness alone breaks the game.

Try rolling for your spells instead of just picking the ones you want?

 snurl wrote:
Try rolling for your spells instead of just picking the ones you want?

picking the ones they wanted was one of the draws of the new version just like more balanced armies, and better items/things to do with your cash besides horde it after you get a full crew

Even if it was rolled randomly, that dosent make that spell any less game breaking. The vampire can also get it. And did. So in a more "balanced" version of mordheim we have 2 assassin flying mosters going to the back lines and picking off their choice each turn.

They both tried to tell me its balanced because holy water exists in this game. Im sorry, no its not.

Last time i played Mordheim, (not Coreheim)
The big bad Vampire and the Skaven super assassin both died in unexpected hails of Dwarven pistol fire.

I agree, the spell seems over the top. Maybe limit it's use with a house rule?
In historical wargames, scenarios often call for an unbalanced game, such as when a small force has to attempt to hold off a much larger one. To me, this is one of the things that keep the game challenging and interesting. I think it applies here, fluff wise, as ordinary men must learn to deal with supernatural monsters, or die in the attempt.

I remember one very frustrating part of Mordheim was sling-spam from multiple rats. Eventually it was dealt with efficiently.

Or, perhaps you might try playing the game with duplicate warbands if balance is an issue for you?

Coreheim does a lot of things right, the items are far improved and add interesting things to the game, such as grappling hooks so you can take climb checks on 2d6, spell scrolls so you can roll your important spell on 3d6, ect.

Even the monsters like the ogre and troll are a bit better balanced. But things like this spell are just over the top.

6 out of 8 players voted to nerf it to difficulty 8 from 6 and reduce the range from 12 to 6 also. The possessed player quit the campaign. But it wasent much of one anyway since we could pretty much tell who would be in the finals as is.

We found that any crowd-made FAQ, errata, or rules set ends up being imbalanced in a different way, or caters to the people who made the rules/lists/whatever.

We've played several Mordheim campaigns straight from the books, with expansion bands, with Empire in Flames, and learned a lot of lessons - many of which we house-ruled. We never felt the game needed to be much different than the actual rules, just tweaked.

My fave was having a beastman hero who had Hatred of the big bad vampire after being taken OOA in a previous game. Every game I ran him straight at the vampire, and in two games took him OOA on a mace critical hit roll of 6. Now, that's long odds two games running, so i wouldn't then say that vampires are easy to handle :-)

 Cruentus wrote:
We found that any crowd-made FAQ, errata, or rules set ends up being imbalanced in a different way, or caters to the people who made the rules/lists/whatever.

We've played several Mordheim campaigns straight from the books, with expansion bands, with Empire in Flames, and learned a lot of lessons - many of which we house-ruled. We never felt the game needed to be much different than the actual rules, just tweaked.

My fave was having a beastman hero who had Hatred of the big bad vampire after being taken OOA in a previous game. Every game I ran him straight at the vampire, and in two games took him OOA on a mace critical hit roll of 6. Now, that's long odds two games running, so i wouldn't then say that vampires are easy to handle :-)

are they hard to handle if they can get a 20 inch threat range and charge your magister from any angle during turn 2? Because that's basically what this spell allows. Its not the being a meelee monster that's the problem. Its always getting to chose your fight and attack the weakest link. And you cant brick up, because then the 2 magisters come in with the flame templates and take out 2 or 3 guys each with power scrolls.

 Orock wrote:

 Cruentus wrote:
We found that any crowd-made FAQ, errata, or rules set ends up being imbalanced in a different way, or caters to the people who made the rules/lists/whatever.

We've played several Mordheim campaigns straight from the books, with expansion bands, with Empire in Flames, and learned a lot of lessons - many of which we house-ruled. We never felt the game needed to be much different than the actual rules, just tweaked.

My fave was having a beastman hero who had Hatred of the big bad vampire after being taken OOA in a previous game. Every game I ran him straight at the vampire, and in two games took him OOA on a mace critical hit roll of 6. Now, that's long odds two games running, so i wouldn't then say that vampires are easy to handle :-)

are they hard to handle if they can get a 20 inch threat range and charge your magister from any angle during turn 2? Because that's basically what this spell allows. Its not the being a meelee monster that's the problem. Its always getting to chose your fight and attack the weakest link. And you cant brick up, because then the 2 magisters come in with the flame templates and take out 2 or 3 guys each with power scrolls.

Oh, absolutely. I was agreeing with you that that spell, and its applications sounds pretty horrific. I was also just making a general statement that I've never found a "silver bullet" that makes Mordheim skirmish gaming "balanced". Coreheim is no different than all the FAQs and tweaks that were around on the old specialist forum, just different stuff that doesn't work.

I've always found Mordheim to really break one way or the other: people play it "cutthroat" with maximum numbers, double clubs/hammers, and no armor with things like the old lucky charm, etc. on everybody (and in that dynamic some bands are really much better than others) or people play it like an RPG and bulk out on a handful of guys in lots of armor, helmets, etc. (even though its not effective). We've been able to get things to a decent "balance" but every time someone did something different (i.e. we didn't see a Skaven band until the 3rd campaign), then something got knocked out of whack.

That being said, I love Mordheim/Warhammer Fantasy skirmish overall and play it whenever I can.

Instead of whining why not ask for an update. You know they listen:

v. 8.9g
p. 16: Spells and Prayers are randomly rolled, not chosen.
p. 17: Speed of Shemtek up from D6+ to D7+
p. 18: Skitterleap down from range 30" to range 24"
p. 20: Wings of Darkness up from D6+ to D7+. Range reduced from 12" to 8".
p. 21: Witch Flight up from D6+ to D7+. Range reduced from 12" to 8".



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