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Got two Imperial Knights incoming. Decided to team them up with my Ravenwing for some Knightly goodness. This list is...nasty.

Added potential alternate army. Essentially I drop the Standard of Devastation and one squad of bikers for 3 Multi-melta attack bikes. That adds two scoring units and further ups the amount of "reach out and touch someone" melta. I'm finalizing my list now, so which does the hive prefer?

Potential updated army:



Original Army with C&C included:




Ravenwing does about what you'd expect. The librarian with PFG goes between the Paladins, giving them that tasty 4++ all over the place and (hopefully) buffing them up with some Divination goodness (hoping, of course, for ignore cover).

Thoughts, feelings, etc.?

I would take a full command squad 3 is too brittle. I don't quite understand why you've taken Paladins over the Errant? I know you've bucket loads of melta in the lust anyway. But an AP1 blast is just a much greater threat than 2 Ap3 ones. Also it fits the knights roll better than the rather confused Paladin that wants to sit back but has a strength D CC weapon... not to mention stomps!

Also possibly worth mixing up the weapons on the bike squads. Though I can see why you've gone melta as it dovetails well with the dakka banner.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I would take a full command squad 3 is too brittle. I don't quite understand why you've taken Paladins over the Errant? I know you've bucket loads of melta in the lust anyway. But an AP1 blast is just a much greater threat than 2 Ap3 ones. Also it fits the knights roll better than the rather confused Paladin that wants to sit back but has a strength D CC weapon... not to mention stomps!

Also possibly worth mixing up the weapons on the bike squads. Though I can see why you've gone melta as it dovetails well with the dakka banner.

Paladin over errant is just for the reason you've listed: I've got a ton of Melta in the list already. Four AP3 blasts help with the sorts of things that can give this list trouble: swarm armies, opposing biker armies, and gunlines.

I do see the value in some Plasma units, but prefer the melta saturation. I'd approach TEQ through either concentraed melta (with added potential for ID goodness) for smaller sized squads and weight of fire for larger.

I'd still take a bigger command squad.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I'd still take a bigger command squad.

So, larger command squad and delete one squad of bikers?

themadlbb wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
I'd still take a bigger command squad.

So, larger command squad and delete one squad of bikers?

I'd actually drop two bike squads to get a MM Attack bike in the other four squad and use the rest of the points to enlarge the command squad.

 whembly wrote:

themadlbb wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
I'd still take a bigger command squad.

So, larger command squad and delete one squad of bikers?

I'd actually drop two bike squads to get a MM Attack bike in the other four squad and use the rest of the points to enlarge the command squad.

A Ravenwing Attack bike with MM is 55 pts. Four would be 220 points. Dropping two squads would leave me with only 200 points, meaning I wouldn't even be able to afford the MM attack bikes, let alone the upgrade to the Command Squad.

Or am I missing something obvious?

themadlbb wrote:

 whembly wrote:

themadlbb wrote:

 FlingitNow wrote:
I'd still take a bigger command squad.

So, larger command squad and delete one squad of bikers?

I'd actually drop two bike squads to get a MM Attack bike in the other four squad and use the rest of the points to enlarge the command squad.

A Ravenwing Attack bike with MM is 55 pts. Four would be 220 points. Dropping two squads would leave me with only 200 points, meaning I wouldn't even be able to afford the MM attack bikes, let alone the upgrade to the Command Squad.

Or am I missing something obvious?

Dammit, my math was off...

I'm big on the four 3x Ravenwing Bikes with 2 meltas + MM Attack bikes. That's 8 scoring troops... it's what I brought to the Las Vegas Open and had a blast.

I'd drop the Darkshroud to boost the Command Squad. But that's just me.

I'd drop 1 squad for the extra command bodies. Otherwise it is worth considering dropping another for two MM Attack bikes but I probably wouldn't you have enough tank killing power with the Knights you just want to flood the table with your other units. I am concerned the Knights will go down quickly with no other obvious targets. Particularly to FBSC Missilesides (a unit with no ML support puts 2 HPs a turn on your knights and their return fire is a little lacklustre against them due to 2+ save).

Just thought I'd point out the last squad there is only 90 points, not 100. Flamers are 5 a pop, not 10 like Melta Guns.

I don't actually have my book on me and it might be one of those examples of the game forgetting to price things evenly, but I'm like 99.9% sure flamers on bikes is only 5 points a pop.

 FlingitNow wrote:
I'd drop 1 squad for the extra command bodies. Otherwise it is worth considering dropping another for two MM Attack bikes but I probably wouldn't you have enough tank killing power with the Knights you just want to flood the table with your other units. I am concerned the Knights will go down quickly with no other obvious targets. Particularly to FBSC Missilesides (a unit with no ML support puts 2 HPs a turn on your knights and their return fire is a little lacklustre against them due to 2+ save).

Sorry, my acronym-fu must be weak, FBSC Missilesides?

And does that take into account the 4++ invuln from the PFG libby?

2HP a turn isn't negligible, but hopefully I'd be able to close enough distance with my bikes or paladins so as to avoid more than a turn or two of shooting with anything that could tear up the Knights too bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SRSFACE wrote:
Just thought I'd point out the last squad there is only 90 points, not 100. Flamers are 5 a pop, not 10 like Melta Guns.

I don't actually have my book on me and it might be one of those examples of the game forgetting to price things evenly, but I'm like 99.9% sure flamers on bikes is only 5 points a pop.

You're right. It's still 1850, I just forgot to update the points on that squad.

I'll update now.

Firebase Support Cadre. Basically Missilesides with tank hunters for free. You get a 4++ for the Knights anyway so that was included in the calculations if they get at you side armour then your Knight is dead. They'll have 2 such units at least, or if they are a git (like me at 1500pt battle brothers) they could be running 2 FBSCs and that's 4 units which is both Knights dead in 2 turns of firing. Its the reason I prefer the Errant he gets first shots at the Broadsides and murders most of a unit a turn.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Firebase Support Cadre. Basically Missilesides with tank hunters for free. You get a 4++ for the Knights anyway so that was included in the calculations if they get at you side armour then your Knight is dead. They'll have 2 such units at least, or if they are a git (like me at 1500pt battle brothers) they could be running 2 FBSCs and that's 4 units which is both Knights dead in 2 turns of firing. Its the reason I prefer the Errant he gets first shots at the Broadsides and murders most of a unit a turn.

So I guess the question is, in this list specifically, would the Errant provide more of a boon than the Paladin considering the overall wealth of melta/plasma shots?

I haven't playtested the list yet, but it seems to me that if you were focusing those Missilesides on the Knights then it would give me the opportunity to close distance quickly with my bikes, who would all be getting enhanced cover due to the Darkshroud and the fact that Markerlights will be priority #1 with my nastiest firepower until they're gone. Assuming I was facing Tau with ML Support and two or more units of those FBSC Missilesides, I'd probably spend turn one trying to eliminate ML support and then turn 2 firing all the melta/plasma/battle cannons I could at the Missilesides.

Now, I definitely agree that the Errant would be better in this specific matchup against Tau. That being said, it seems like I could probably deal reasonably well with such a list, and that the Paladin may be better overall in a TAC sense for this army. Thoughts?

Well I don't want to get into a specific my list vs your list match up. But the list includes 2 Riptides (they are part of the FBSC) and normally a buffmander at 1850 it would include a Mark'o so you're not getting at the MLs early game and those Riptides are ripping your bikes a new one.

I just think in the current meta with Missilesides, O'vesastars, Gravstars, Seercouncils etc the Ap1 of the Errant is much more useful. Granted combat is where you'll really shine against the deathstars but you'll want to do some damage against them before making combat.

Killing MEQs is easy enough and your bikes can avoid swarms whilst your Knights march through them. I still think the Errants will do more against the strong builds than the Paladins. Which would probably lead to making the bikes weapons more varied. Give it a go, it'll depend on your meta and I can see your reasoning.

Your sir are a hero. Just the idea of this list makes me giddy with joy. As I love ravenwing and the knights seem like a fantastic addition. You might not need the bike for the libby if hes going to be staying back with the knights. However I do agree with everyone else, heavy melta sat. I would honestly buff the command squad and maybe drop some regular bikes for a black knights squad outflanking or something. Either way though it seems like a solid list however you change it up. I will probably be trying something similar once I get my knights.

 Yellohman wrote:
Your sir are a hero. Just the idea of this list makes me giddy with joy. As I love ravenwing and the knights seem like a fantastic addition. You might not need the bike for the libby if hes going to be staying back with the knights. However I do agree with everyone else, heavy melta sat. I would honestly buff the command squad and maybe drop some regular bikes for a black knights squad outflanking or something. Either way though it seems like a solid list however you change it up. I will probably be trying something similar once I get my knights.

Thank you sir!

I am very excited about this list myself!

 FlingitNow wrote:
I would take a full command squad 3 is too brittle. I don't quite understand why you've taken Paladins over the Errant? I know you've bucket loads of melta in the lust anyway. But an AP1 blast is just a much greater threat than 2 Ap3 ones. Also it fits the knights roll better than the rather confused Paladin that wants to sit back but has a strength D CC weapon... not to mention stomps!

Also possibly worth mixing up the weapons on the bike squads. Though I can see why you've gone melta as it dovetails well with the dakka banner.

This. At least I'd take one Errant for variety.

Some plasma guns in the Bike squads would be very useful vs. MCs and Termies.

themadlbb wrote:
This list is...nasty.



Thoughts, feelings, etc.?

SMELLS LIKE IT

 FeindusMaximus wrote:

themadlbb wrote:
This list is...nasty.



Thoughts, feelings, etc.?

SMELLS LIKE IT

Haha if the Knights can get people to declare a Ravenwing list OP or cheesy in the current Meta then they were more than worth what I paid for them!

just a comment on the Firebase Support Cadre issue.
The battlecanon knight will not take those HP that easily as there is a tiny difference of range between broadsides and battle canon (which there is not with the melta variery)

So with melta you will own the broadside but take a lot of damage, with the battlecanon you will be far enough not to take the damage (and mobile enough)

sleekid wrote:
just a comment on the Firebase Support Cadre issue.
The battlecanon knight will not take those HP that easily as there is a tiny difference of range between broadsides and battle canon (which there is not with the melta variery)

So with melta you will own the broadside but take a lot of damage, with the battlecanon you will be far enough not to take the damage (and mobile enough)

That's a good point.

I'm wavering between the two in this list, but ultimately I do think the Paladin is the better take here for the added versatility he offers the list.

That said, I'm just going to have to magnetize him and play with both...

Alright, I just updated the list.

Dropped the Darkshroud and the Flamer Squad, added two Black Knights + Apothecary to the command squad.

Also changed the Knights from Paladins to Errants. I still think the Battlecannon might be a bit better for this list, but I was 10 points over with the Paladins.

How does she look now?

Alright, I've just about got the bits and pieces I need to make this army a reality. I've made one final update to the list in the original post. Please let me know which version you prefer!